Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:37 am

DBZ Macky wrote:
Noah wrote: But not in the manga? :eh:
Because the other Daizenshuu states that Gohan never uses the form after the chapter where Gohan transforms in the Budokai.
I'm just trying to make both the contradictory statements work, and chalk it up to an example of Anime-Manga difference.

Besides, does Gohan's form against Dabra even affect the overarching power scale?
Not as much as you would think. In the manga, Gohan was pretty obviously a regular ol' Super Saiyan and was barely able to keep up with Dabra, but in the anime, he was probably a Super Saiyan 2. However, the Dragon Book goes out of it's way to say that Dabra was clearly inferior in power, but Gohan's skills were so rusty that Dabra held the advantage anyways. Numberwise, it'd probably look something like this:

Manga Son Gohan (SS1): 3,000

Anime Son Gohan (SS2): 6,000

Dabra: 4,500
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:39 am

DanielSSJ wrote: Numberwise, it'd probably look something like this:

Manga Son Gohan (SS1): 3,000

Anime Son Gohan (SS2): 6,000

Dabra: 4,500
What about Manga Son Gohan (SS2)?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:44 am

Noah wrote:What about Manga Son Gohan (SS2)?
He'd still be 6,000 in this scenario.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:49 am

apex_pretador wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:There are no inconsistencies if you look at it objectively, except Gohan's form vs Dabra
Gohan's clearly an FPSSJ. Goku says Dabura isn't much of a threat before anyone knows he can go SSJ2, and nobody rebuts him. Vegeta is still surprised when Goku uses SSJ2 against Yakon, so SSJ Goku > Dabura.
Which is inconsistent, seeing how trunks (trained with Z sword for longer than Gohan did) should be above post Z sword gohan let alone pre Z sword gohan, and was losing to Dabra. Even SS2 trunks didn't horribly stomp Dabra and needed Kaioshin's help.
Also, Kaioshin mentioned how kibito wasnt there to watch Gohan's "awesome power" which strongly hints he's above what level he was at budokai.
Then there is heavy implication that Gohan is having trouble because of lack of training, not because of using a weaker form.

Also, goku doesn't know everyone can go SS2, but he also says a few years ago he would've been a powerful opponent. It proves he has reached the level of perfect cell or surpassed him. Not to mention later goku says he underestimated dabra who's way stronger than he thought.
Goku was referring to Dabura's ability to use magic when he said that.

Also, Vegeta also says Dabura won't be much of a problem, he repeats this when Goku says the line you're quoting, yet Goku's still surprised when he reveals he has SSJ2, thus SSJ Vegeta > Dabura, and SSJ Vegeta is confirmed to be much weaker than SSJ Goku which was why he intentionally fell under the Majin spell, to boost his power to Goku's level.

I can buy SSJ Goku reaching Perfect Cell level after 7 years, but not Vegeta who's well below his level , especially since this would mean Goku was considerably more powerful than Cell.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:46 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote: Goku was referring to Dabura's ability to use magic when he said that.

Also, Vegeta also says Dabura won't be much of a problem, he repeats this when Goku says the line you're quoting, yet Goku's still surprised when he reveals he has SSJ2, thus SSJ Vegeta > Dabura, and SSJ Vegeta is confirmed to be much weaker than SSJ Goku which was why he intentionally fell under the Majin spell, to boost his power to Goku's level.

I can buy SSJ Goku reaching Perfect Cell level after 7 years, but not Vegeta who's well below his level , especially since this would mean Goku was considerably more powerful than Cell.
Vegeta is infamous for bragging. You can't just decide someone's power level on his statements of bragging. He also said he would win a tournament without transforming with Piccolo in it. Not to mention it is heavily implied that vegeta reached SS2.

1. Goku was never surprised that vegeta became SS2, he was surprised that Vegeta was equal to him. So SS vegeta > Dabra is false

2. Goku did not know how powerful vegeta was, how would he know? He obviously meant dabra is weaker than him.

3. When goku/vegeta first said that Dabra is not too much, it was when he was suppressed. Goku based off on his movements to be around cell level.

4. It is heavily implied that gohan is doing the best he can

However, despite considering this all, you can't ignore feats over some vague statements, and feats show him superior to post Z sword trunks, who is >= post Z sword gohan who's >> pre Z sword gohan. and that's both anime and manga.


Dabra > post Z sword trunks > pre Z sword trunks > SS Gohan (on babidi's ship)
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:01 am

apex_pretador wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: Goku was referring to Dabura's ability to use magic when he said that.

Also, Vegeta also says Dabura won't be much of a problem, he repeats this when Goku says the line you're quoting, yet Goku's still surprised when he reveals he has SSJ2, thus SSJ Vegeta > Dabura, and SSJ Vegeta is confirmed to be much weaker than SSJ Goku which was why he intentionally fell under the Majin spell, to boost his power to Goku's level.

I can buy SSJ Goku reaching Perfect Cell level after 7 years, but not Vegeta who's well below his level , especially since this would mean Goku was considerably more powerful than Cell.
Vegeta is infamous for bragging. You can't just decide someone's power level on his statements of bragging. He also said he would win a tournament without transforming with Piccolo in it. Not to mention it is heavily implied that vegeta reached SS2.

1. Goku was never surprised that vegeta became SS2, he was surprised that Vegeta was equal to him. So SS vegeta > Dabra is false

2. Goku did not know how powerful vegeta was, how would he know? He obviously meant dabra is weaker than him.

3. When goku/vegeta first said that Dabra is not too much, it was when he was suppressed. Goku based off on his movements to be around cell level.

4. It is heavily implied that gohan is doing the best he can

However, despite considering this all, you can't ignore feats over some vague statements, and feats show him superior to post Z sword trunks, who is >= post Z sword gohan who's >> pre Z sword gohan. and that's both anime and manga.


Dabra > post Z sword trunks > pre Z sword trunks > SS Gohan (on babidi's ship)
Goku was surprised by Vegeta turning SSJ2, when Vegeta goes SSJ2 he has a surprised expression and an exclamation point next to his face.

And SSJ Goku > Dabura = SSJ2 Gohan makes no sense, Goku doesn't become stronger than SSJ2 Gohan until he himself goes SSJ2.

Also, Toriyama clearly depicts Gohan without lightning whereas he gave him lightning when he turned SSJ2 ~10 chapters earlier and also gave Goku and Vegeta lightning when they went SSJ2 3 chapters later.

Also, the Daizenshuu #2 says Gohan didn't use SSJ2 after the tournament, the Daizenshuu #7 which supplements both the anime and the manga says Gohan was an SSJ2 against Dabura, thus Gohan being SSJ2 is an anime thing.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Gog » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:16 pm

I purpose a challenge to thee foolhardy enough to take it, give the Kanzenshuu users their own power levels!

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by VegetaSSJBlue » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:57 pm

POWER MULTIPLIERS

Oozaru – 10x
Super Saiyan – 50x

Raditz Arc

Son Gohan – 1
Enraged – 1,307

Son Goku – 416
Piccolo – 408
Tenshinhan – 250
Kuririn – 206
Yamcha – 177
Chaozu – 150
Yajirobe – 145
Muten Roshi – 139

Kaio of the North – 5,000
Enma Daio – 2,500
Kami of Earth – 330
Mr. Popo – 290

Raditz – 1,200
Oozaru – 12,000

Saiyan Arc


Son Goku – 8,000
Kaio-Ken x2 – 16,000
Kaio-Ken x3 – 24,000
Kaio-Ken x4 – 32,000

Son Gohan – 1,307
Enraged – 2,800
Oozaru – 13,070

Piccolo – 2,500
Tenshinhan – 1,800
Kuririn – 1,500
Yamcha – 1,300
Chaozu – 1,000
Yajirobe – 800

Saibaimen – 1,200

Nappa – 7,500
Oozaru – 75,000

Vegeta – 18,000
Oozaru – 180,000


Namek Arc


Son Goku – 90,000
Kaio-Ken x2 – 180,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 900,000

Vegeta – 24,000
Post-recovery – 30,000
Post-recovery 2 – 50,000

Son Gohan – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 11,000
Post-recovery – 27,500

Kuririn – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 10,500

Dende – 200
Power Unlocked – 1,000

Muri – 1,000
Young Namekians – 3,000
Nail – 42,000

Freeza – 530,000
Freeza Soldiers – 1,300
Kwi – 18,000
Dodoria – 20,000

Zarbon – 22,000
Transformed – 29,000

Gurd – 5,000
Recoome – 40,000
Butta – 40,000
Jheese – 40,000
Captain Ginyu – 120,000


Freeza Arc


Son Goku – 2,400,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 24,000,000
Kaio-Ken x20 – 48,000,000
Super Saiyan – 120,000,000

Vegeta – 500,000
Post-recovery – 2,000,000

Son Gohan – 150,000
Enraged – 750,000
Post-recovery – 600,000
Enraged – 1,500,000

Piccolo – 300,000
Merged with Nail – 1,200,000

Kuririn – 10,500

Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 800,000
Power-Up 1 – 900,000
Power-Up 2 – 1,100,000
Third Form – 1,600,000
True Form – 2,500,000
50% Power – 50,000,000
70% Power – 70,000,000
100% Power – 100,000,000

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:04 am

Multipliers:
SSJ: 50X
Grade 2: 75X
Grade 3: 90X
SSJ2: 100X
SSJ3: 150X (I know the SEG says it's 400x)

Frieza Arc:
Vegeta: 75,000
-Post Nap: 450,000
-Final Zenkai: 1,800,000

Gohan: 130,000
-Enraged: 910,000
-Recovered: 200,000
-Enraged: 1,400,000

Kuririn: 60,000
-Time of death: 75,000

Piccolo: 35,000
-Nail fusion: 1,155,000
-Gohan & Kuririn's energy: 1,400,000

Frieza: 530,000
-2nd form: 1,060,000
-3rd form: 1,590,000
-Final form (Initial): 2,120,000
-Final form (Vs Vegeta): 2,400,000
-Final form (Vs Goku): 3,000,000
-Final form (50%): 60,000,000
-Final form (70%): 84,000,000
-Final form (100%): 120,000,000

Goku: 3,000,000
-Kaioken x10: 30,000,000
-Kaioken x20: 60,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 150,000,000

Trunks' Timeline:
Gohan: 1,500,000
-Super Saiyan: 75,000,000

17: 165,000,000
-Less than half: 82,000,000

One year later:
Gohan: 2,200,000
-Super Saiyan: 110,000,000

Trunks: 50,000
-Super Saiyan: 2,500,000

17: 165,000,000
18: 160,000,000

Androids Arc:
Kuririn: 120,000
Tenshinhan: 80,000
Yamcha: 22,000
Vegeta: 2,800,000
Piccolo: 2,900,000
Gohan: 250,000
King Cold: 90,000,000
Mecha Frieza: 100,000,000
-Hypothetical full power: 145,000,000

Trunks: 3,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 150,000,000

Goku: 3,100,000
-Super Saiyan: 155,000,000

3 years later:
Kuririn: 200,000
Tenshinhan: 150,000
Yamcha: 40,000
Gohan: 3,000,000
Piccolo: 30,000,000
-Full power: 90,000,000
-Weights off: 95,000,000
-Kami fusion: 185,000,000

Goku: 2,800,000
-Super Saiyan: 125,000,000 and dropping

19: 38,000,000
-Goku's energy absorbed: 80,000,000
-Vegeta's energy absorbed: 110,000,000

20: 40,000,000
-Energy absorbed: 60,000,000

Vegeta: 3,300,000
-Super Saiyan: 165,000,000

Trunks: 3,140,000
-Super Saiyan: 157,000,000

18: 180,000,000
17: 185,000,000
16: 240,000,000

Cell Arc:
18: 180,000,000
17: 185,000,000
16: 240,000,000
Piccolo: 185,000,000
-Worn out: 175,000,000

Cell: 170,000,000
-Post absorptions: 235,000,000
-Semi Perfect (Initial): 335,000,000
-Semi Perfect (Full power): 400,000,000

Vegeta: 6,600,000
-Super Saiyan: 330,000,000
-Grade 2: 500,000,000

Trunks: 6,500,000
-Super Saiyan: 325,000,000
-Grade 2: 490,000,000
-Grade 3: 585,000,000

Perfect Cell: 500,000,000
-Warming up: 550,000,000
-Buff: 600,000,000

Goku: 3,800,000
-Super Saiyan: 190,000,000
-Grade 2: 285,000,000
-Grade 3: 340,000,000

Gohan: 3,500,000
-Super Saiyan: 175,000,000

Cell Games:
Goku: 20,000,000
-About half: 550,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 1,000,000,000

Gohan: 24,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 1,200,000,000
-Super Saiyan 2: 2,400,000,000

Piccolo: 550,000,000

Vegeta: 12,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 600,000,000

Trunks: 11,800,000
-Super Saiyan: 590,000,000

Cell Jrs.: 600,000,000

Perfect Cell: 600,000,000
-Vs Goku: 1,100,000,000
-Vs Gohan: 1,200,000,000
-Full power: 1,500,000,000
-Buff: 1,800,000,000
-Super Perfect: 2,400,000,000

Buu Arc:
Piccolo: 650,000,000
Kaioshin: 1,000,000,000
Kibito: 20,000,000
Pui Pui: 1,600,000
Yakon: 25,000,000
Dabura: 1,000,000,000

Gohan: 20,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 1,000,000,000
-Super Saiyan 2: 2,000,000,000
-Ultimate: 10,000,000,000

Vegeta: 22,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 1,100,000,000
-Super Saiyan 2: 2,200,000,000
-Majin: 2,500,000,000

Goku: 25,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 1,250,000,000
-Super Saiyan 2: 2,500,000,000
-Super Saiyan 3: 3,750,000,000

Goten: 16,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 800,000,000
-Post RoSAT: 19,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 950,000,000

Trunks: 17,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 850,000,000
-Post RoSAT: 19,200,000
-Super Saiyan: 960,000,000

Gotenks: 48,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 2,400,000,000
-Post RoSAT: 57,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 2,850,000,000
-Super Saiyan 3: 8,550,000,000

Majin Buu: 2,800,000,000
-Enraged: 4,500,000,000
-Good: 2,000,000,000
-Evil: 2,500,000,000
-Pure: 3,750,000,000

Super Buu: 8,400,000,000
-Buutenks: 12,600,000,000
-Buuhan: 13,500,000,000

Vegetto: 500,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 25,000,000,000

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:03 pm

Do you guys think 2nd form Freeza was initially over a million? Or was that to his 2nd form full power?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:42 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:One of the Daizenshuus CLEARLY mentions that Dabra fought evenly with SS2 Gohan.

I think at the very least, all of us can agree that Gohan was a SS2 in the Anime.
Daizenshuu 2 All Battles wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Are you referring to this? It doesn't claim Gohan used Super Saiyan 2. I'll add that Daizenshuu 2 strictly used the manga as its source. Daizenshuu 7, the supposed culprit for "contradiction", compiles all Dragon Ball information, anime adaption & original story.
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:I really belive that Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura, but the Daizenshuu isn't an argument. IIRC, another Daiz says that Gohan was only SSJ2 at the Tournament, directly contradicting that.
Daizenshuu 2 cites Gohan using Super Saiyan 2 in Dragon Ball Volume 37 alone. As addressed above, this is the databook which uses the manga as its sole source.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:01 pm

Nejishiki wrote:Are you referring to this? It doesn't claim Gohan used Super Saiyan 2. I'll add that Daizenshuu 2 strictly used the manga as its source. Daizenshuu 7, the supposed culprit for "contradiction", compiles all Dragon Ball information, anime adaption & original story.
No. Daizenshuu 7, Dabra's bio.
You even point out the contradiction was in that guidebook, so it obviously wasn't in Daizenshuu 2 :?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:14 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Nejishiki wrote:Are you referring to this? It doesn't claim Gohan used Super Saiyan 2. I'll add that Daizenshuu 2 strictly used the manga as its source. Daizenshuu 7, the supposed culprit for "contradiction", compiles all Dragon Ball information, anime adaption & original story.
No. Daizenshuu 7, Dabra's bio.
You even point out the contradiction was in that guidebook, so it obviously wasn't in Daizenshuu 2 :?
dbgtFO, what do you think about my question? Do you think Freeza 2nd form was initially at 1,000,000+ or this number was just for his full power?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:15 pm

Please judge.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:24 pm

ahill1 wrote:Do you guys think 2nd form Freeza was initially over a million? Or was that to his 2nd form full power?
Yep. Vegeta was horrified with his power, and i can't see him less than 2x stronger than his 1st form.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:02 pm

ahill1 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Nejishiki wrote:Are you referring to this? It doesn't claim Gohan used Super Saiyan 2. I'll add that Daizenshuu 2 strictly used the manga as its source. Daizenshuu 7, the supposed culprit for "contradiction", compiles all Dragon Ball information, anime adaption & original story.
No. Daizenshuu 7, Dabra's bio.
You even point out the contradiction was in that guidebook, so it obviously wasn't in Daizenshuu 2 :?
dbgtFO, what do you think about my question? Do you think Freeza 2nd form was initially at 1,000,000+ or this number was just for his full power?
Initially at 1 million+, though I could see the other side too, as then you can have his transformations increase his power by a total of 530,000, until his final form, where Vegeta figured just how much power he needed and thought he'd be superior, like:

1st: 530,000
2nd: 1,060,000
3rd: 1,590,000
4th(Vegeta estimation): 2,120,000

Vegeta: 2,250,000

Initial 4th(actual): 3,000,000+

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:13 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
ahill1 wrote: dbgtFO, what do you think about my question? Do you think Freeza 2nd form was initially at 1,000,000+ or this number was just for his full power?
Initially at 1 million+, though I could see the other side too, as then you can have his transformations increase his power by a total of 530,000, until his final form, where Vegeta figured just how much power he needed and thought he'd be superior, like:

1st: 530,000
2nd: 1,060,000
3rd: 1,590,000
4th(Vegeta estimation): 2,120,000

Vegeta: 2,250,000

Initial 4th(actual): 3,000,000+
I can't see Vegeta being that high, the level Frieza used to curbstomp him has to be comfortably below Goku since when Goku first showed up he effortlessly kicked Frieza away when he tried to attack and then casually batted all of his death beams away.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:04 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Nejishiki wrote:Are you referring to this? It doesn't claim Gohan used Super Saiyan 2. I'll add that Daizenshuu 2 strictly used the manga as its source. Daizenshuu 7, the supposed culprit for "contradiction", compiles all Dragon Ball information, anime adaption & original story.
No. Daizenshuu 7, Dabra's bio.
You even point out the contradiction was in that guidebook, so it obviously wasn't in Daizenshuu 2 :?
I wasn't sure which Daizenshuu volume he meant, so thanks! With DBZ Macky settling on the Dragon Ball Z adaption featuring Super Saiyan 2, I guessed on the earlier volume. Obvious or not, it was a genuine question since I was uncertain. It's why I bothered with elaborating the purpose of each databook (one is single-minded, the other isn't).

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:15 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:I can't see Vegeta being that high, the level Frieza used to curbstomp him has to be comfortably below Goku since when Goku first showed up he effortlessly kicked Frieza away when he tried to attack and then casually batted all of his death beams away.
I actually feel that the 3 million number for Freeza is too low, hence why you've got this uncomfortable situation where Vegeta ends up not being that much weaker than Goku or Freeza but both of them clearly outclass him by a massive margin.

If I ignored the official numbers just for Goku and Vegeta in this instance, I'd make it look like this:

Vegeta:
450,000 (pre-final Zenkai)
3,000,000 (post-final ZenkaI)

Freeza:
530,000 (1st Form)
1,060,000 (2nd Form)
1,590,000 (3rd Form)
2,120,000 (Vegeta's prediction for 4th Form)
4,250,000 (actual 4th form)
85,000,000 (50%)
170,000,000 (100%)

Goku:
4,250,000 (Base)
42,500,000 (KKX10)
85,000,000 (KKX20)
212,500,000 (Super Saiyan, x50 Base)
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:53 pm

What BP you guys have to the Z Senshi awaiting for Mecha Freeza arrival?
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