Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[buutenks]

Black definitely got an upgrade. Everytime he got a boost, his sword changed shape. First was dagger, then sword and now a sycthe.

Well, i guess in ep 57 he simply got a rage boost. Since he got trashed by ssj3 and ssj blue with ease. So he got a rage boost(the big aura spiking after he blocked Black Rose dagger strike, even Black was confused as to how Trunks was able to block the strike), which enabled him to fight ssj blue level opponents. Then he gets trashed by improved Black Rose, gets a new form and is able to keep up with improved Black Rose.

So, i see it like this:

Super Trunks>ssj blue(ep 57)>ssj2 Trunks(rage boost in ep 57)>Base Black>ssj3 Goku>fpssj2 Trunks(one that got beat by Goku and Vegeta)>ssj2 Goku>ssj2 Trunks(holding back)

[ZombieVito]

Trunks got a rage boost in episode 57 since he got owned in episode 61. Hell his aura gave that away. It tripled on the spot.

I really don't believe he got stronger on a single day without the RoSaT.

[ShinTenshin]

So Black is sure than Zamasu can Kill Trunks really fast. Zamasu himself is confident about beating Trunks alone with ease.
However when he fight Goku in EP63-64, he hasn't the same attitude, a good indication.
And when Goku use the Shunkan Idou, the Saiyajin prince ask at Trunks and the others to not interfere, implying than the SSBLUE is still vastly stronger.

In the Preview Goku still think he can improve against Merged Zamasu, so even if Vegeta is stronger than ever, it's clear that Goku will surpass him soon (maybe in the next EP).

[Bullza]

Well in Episode 63 Trunks fought SSJR Black in his Super Trunks form. Then almost immediately after he fought Zamasu just in his ordinary SSJ2 form.

Which then he was able to dodge Zamasu and he was about to attempt to kill him before Black intervened.

Seeing as Trunks also got the upperhand over Zamasu in Episode 57 then it makes me wonder if Zamasu is just SSJ2 level (which would possibly fit with the SSJ2 Goku vs Zamasu fight) while Black is SSJB level. Except there isn't a huge gap between those two levels.

Ideally Zamasu should be weaker than Base Black otherwise there's little point in stealing Goku's body in the first place.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well i based the 500x on ssj blue Vegeta not finger flicking Trunks away.

Why does everyone forget that Vegeta has the ability to hold back? And why wouldn't he hold back, the point of their fight wasn't to murder Trunks, it was to toy with Trunks (You win if you land a hit on me!). Same with base Black, Vegeta was expecting Black to be above, but not far from, SS3 Goku's level, and Black took him off guard because he had become stronger, and kept becoming even stronger, to Vegeta's surprise. But when Black turned into SSR, Vegeta showed his true power, to Black's surprise.

As for SSR, it either gives the same boost that SS gives, or the same boost that SSB gives. If it was the same as SSB, Black would have been far stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta, since his base form is above SS3 Goku's. There would have been an over x400 difference. There is no indication that he has godly ki after all, and the way the aura looks doesn't mean anything, Golden Freeza's aura looks like SSG aura, yet he doesn't have godly ki, it's just a design choice from Toei these days.

[HeroR]

Well in Episode 63 Trunks fought SSJR Black in his Super Trunks form. Then almost immediately after he fought Zamasu just in his ordinary SSJ2 form.

Which then he was able to dodge Zamasu and he was about to attempt to kill him before Black intervened.

Seeing as Trunks also got the upperhand over Zamasu in Episode 57 then it makes me wonder if Zamasu is just SSJ2 level (which would possibly fit with the SSJ2 Goku vs Zamasu fight) while Black is SSJB level. Except there isn't a huge gap between those two levels.

Ideally Zamasu should be weaker than Base Black otherwise there's little point in stealing Goku's body in the first place.

If Future Zamasu was only as strong as Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku should have smashed him into pudding despite his immorality. Not to mention, Future Zamasu landed hits on both Goku and Vegeta at their full power.

Trunks and Goku also notes that Future Zamasu drops his guard a lot because he's an immortal. Which is why people keep landing free hits on him. And Trunks in Episode 57 obviously got a rage boost since his performance in Episode 61 was pretty lackluster and Goku and Vegeta needed to shield him.

[ShinTenshin]

" I'll buy some times. If it's just Zamasu, even i can....."
It's good to have another confirmation. Trunks imply he's far from Black power level. And he don't know he's even stronger now.

In the Preview, Vegeta seems to be in difficulty compared to Goku. As i said, i'm pretty sure Goku will be magically stronger...

[Lord Frieza]

After Black got his new scythe and clone he appears to be more confident and wants Goku and Vegeta to get angry from the deaths of Bulma, Trunks and Mai, which would make then stronger and the Black can get stronger from fighting them.

Vegeta's big speech last episode was unfortunately wrong its clear the Black is still growing stronger. Infact Vegeta has showed him that Rage Boost is a thing and we now have Black pulling off abilities that that even he do not fully understand.

While Black's clones are weak physically (they only take one hit to destroy), Black was confident that they could hold up Goku and Vegeta. The fact they keep spawning and multiplying means they could not stop attacking unless something happens to Black himself. Unless Black runs out of ki or looses concentration the clones could keep fighting and wear our heroes down one over time as their attacks did hurt them.

Black's scythe is the real danger though, the power it uses could very well be Space-Time Slicing.
http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Space-Time_Slicing

If that had hit Vegeta there would have been no way for him to stop it cutting him in half and from the looks of things Black was just trying out his new toy.

Black is truly a dangers foe, the fusion power boost and immortality he's geting is just overkill.

[Bullza]

If Future Zamasu was only as strong as Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku should have smashed him into pudding despite his immorality. Not to mention, Future Zamasu landed hits on both Goku and Vegeta at their full power.

Well more accurately he'd probably be a bit weaker than SSJ2 Trunks. Present Zamasu could be around as strong, within that SSJ2 Goku level.

Whether he got a rage boost in Episode 57 or not I don't know but he didn't have one in Episode 63 and even though Zamasu is perfectly able to keep up with SSJB Goku, when he flew right at Trunks, Trunks was able to dodge and grab him, maybe he'd have even killed him had Black not stabbed him.

I don't know how either of them compare to Base Black but all these characters should be within a comparable level.

[HeroR]

If Future Zamasu was only as strong as Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku should have smashed him into pudding despite his immorality. Not to mention, Future Zamasu landed hits on both Goku and Vegeta at their full power.

Well more accurately he'd probably be a bit weaker than SSJ2 Trunks. Present Zamasu could be around as strong, within that SSJ2 Goku level.

Whether he got a rage boost in Episode 57 or not I don't know but he didn't have one in Episode 63 and even though Zamasu is perfectly able to keep up with SSJB Goku, when he flew right at Trunks, Trunks was able to dodge and grab him, maybe he'd have even killed him had Black not stabbed him.

I don't know how either of them compare to Base Black but all these characters should be within a comparable level.

Present Zamasu has shown himself weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Goku, given how he got overwhelmed and Goku wasn't particularly trying.

Zamasu is an immortal, Trunks could never kill him. The only thing he could hoped for was to make Zamasu a disembody spirit since he thinks they has to be a limit to his regeneration. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen. And Trunks and Goku both said Future Zamasu keeps putting his guard down, which is how he keep getting tag by attacks that he rightly should have dodged. So Trunks grabbing him doesn't mean much since most of Future Zamasu failings is him going, 'I'm immortal, nothing can hurt me!' He basically has Goku's flaws except worse. Seriously, he stood there like an idiot and let Trunks hit him with the Evil Containment Wave. I can see why Black doesn't want immorality if Future Zamasu is anything to go by.

The last time we saw Black fight in his base, he kicked Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta, but the attack didn't really hurt Vegeta and we can probably say Vegeta was off-guard since he wasn't expecting such a power boost from Black.

[Bullza]

Present Zamasu has shown himself weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Goku, given how he got overwhelmed and Goku wasn't particularly trying.

He said he was distracted though and could have done much better so he might not necessarily be weaker than him.

If Zamasu wasn't suppose to be weaker than Base Black then it belittles the entire idea of him having to steal Goku's body to get stronger. He also attacked Base Vegeta and he was able to block him. I don't think there's this huge difference between forms that some of you guys do. I certainly don't think Super Saiyan Blue is thousands of times stronger than Base.

[Marlowe89]

Well in Episode 63 Trunks fought SSJR Black in his Super Trunks form. Then almost immediately after he fought Zamasu just in his ordinary SSJ2 form.

He was still in his Super Trunks form. He didn't suddenly power down as soon as he saw Zamasu, nor would he do that since he fought Zamasu using his Super Trunks form again in the most recent episode.

[HeroR]

Present Zamasu has shown himself weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Goku, given how he got overwhelmed and Goku wasn't particularly trying.

He said he was distracted though and could have done much better so he might not necessarily be weaker than him.

If Zamasu wasn't suppose to be weaker than Base Black then it belittles the entire idea of him having to steal Goku's body to get stronger. He also attacked Base Vegeta and he was able to block him. I don't think there's this huge difference between forms that some of you guys do. I certainly don't think Super Saiyan Blue is thousands of times stronger than Base.

Given that he was trying to commit murder and he wanted to know why everyone was there when he was about to do said murder, I would take what Zamasu says with a grain of salt.

Black was still getting used to his body and he surpassed his old body once he unlocked Super Saiyan Rose.

[Bullza]

He was still in his Super Trunks form. He didn't suddenly power down as soon as he saw Zamasu, nor would he do that since he fought Zamasu in his Super Trunks form again in the most recent episode.

He powered down from his Super Trunks form after blasting Black into the mountain with his Galick Gun. His aura disappeared and his hair went back to what it was before he turned into it. He went into his Super Trunks form in the last episode but he didn't fight him, he just used the Mafuba on him. Why he'd need to transform to be able to do that have no idea.

I would take what Zamasu says with a grain of salt.

It makes sense though. When he fought him he was having all those thoughts about how a human could be so strong and was clearly taken aback by it. So him being distracted with his mind not fully on the battle seems to fit.

[HeroR]

He was still in his Super Trunks form. He didn't suddenly power down as soon as he saw Zamasu, nor would he do that since he fought Zamasu in his Super Trunks form again in the most recent episode.

He powered down from his Super Trunks form after blasting Black into the mountain with his Galick Gun. His aura disappeared and his hair went back to what it was before he turned into it. He went into his Super Trunks form in the last episode but he didn't fight him, he just used the Mafuba on him. Why he'd need to transform to be able to do that have no idea.

I would take what Zamasu says with a grain of salt.

It makes sense though. When he fought him he was having all those thoughts about how a human could be so strong and was clearly taken aback by it. So him being distracted with his mind not fully on the battle seems to fit.

I doubt even at his best he could beat Goku given how Goku completely overwhelmed him.

[Marlowe89]

He powered down from his Super Trunks form after blasting Black into the mountain with his Galick Gun. His aura disappeared and his hair went back to what it was before he turned into it.

His aura was on and off while fighting Black, so the aura by itself is definitely no indication of what form he was using. His hairstyle is sometimes identical in both forms, as there are several scenes where he clearly has the "Super" aura but also the exact same hairstyle from before powering up.

Mafuba is just as part of a fight as any other technique - if he needs to go Super when encountering Zamasu, that cements Zamasu as a threat greater than ordinary Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

[Freezerbaby]

Clones of Goku Black prove no match for SSJB Goku and Vegeta.

That's petty much all I got out of the latest episode.

Those clones were meant to hold goku and vegeta off while zamasu was taking care of trunks, we can´t take them as clones with the same strenght as black.

[Bullza]

I doubt even at his best he could beat Goku given how Goku completely overwhelmed him.

It's hard to say anymore without knowing to what extent he was distracted. I still don't think there's going to be much of a difference at all between Present and Future Zamasu's strength. For one, they never said the Future Zamasu was much stronger and two because even though he's 17 years down the line, how much of a difference is it going to make to someone whose possibly dozens of millions of years old.

His aura was on and off while fighting Black, so the aura by itself is definitely no indication of what form he was using. His hairstyle is sometimes identical in both forms, as there are several scenes where he clearly has the "Super" aura but the exact same hairstyle before powering up.

Yeah the aura wasn't there, sometimes I wonder if that's just so it's easier to animate. The hair was completely different though.

This was Trunks after turning into the form and when fighting Black,

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

And this was his him afterward and when he fought Zamasu.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Of which his hair looked the same before he first transformed into it. They're shit pictures I know, it's easier to to see in the actual video.

[DBZ Macky]

Well i based the 500x on ssj blue Vegeta not finger flicking Trunks away.

Why does everyone forget that Vegeta has the ability to hold back? And why wouldn't he hold back, the point of their fight wasn't to murder Trunks, it was to toy with Trunks (You win if you land a hit on me!). Same with base Black, Vegeta was expecting Black to be above, but not far from, SS3 Goku's level, and Black took him off guard because he had become stronger, and kept becoming even stronger, to Vegeta's surprise. But when Black turned into SSR, Vegeta showed his true power, to Black's surprise.

As for SSR, it either gives the same boost that SS gives, or the same boost that SSB gives. If it was the same as SSB, Black would have been far stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta, since his base form is above SS3 Goku's. There would have been an over x400 difference. There is no indication that he has godly ki after all, and the way the aura looks doesn't mean anything, Golden Freeza's aura looks like SSG aura, yet he doesn't have godly ki, it's just a design choice from Toei these days.

I think Kai filler is canon to DB Super Anime, right?
So, Super Boo is AT LEAST ~500x Goku (Since Super Boo couldn't be defeated by SSJ3 Goku)
If we assume that absorbing Gohan added his power to Boo's own,
Buuhan >= 1,000x Goku

Base Vegetto is apparently stronger than that.
Vegetto > 1,000x Goku
Super Vegetto > 50,000x Goku
SSJ3 Vegetto > 400,000x Goku

Now, Goku says that SSJG is in a dimension that Goku couldn't even knew existed, It'd at least have to be as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto.

So SSJG > 600,000x Goku //I think '6' is a good number, going off the clearly retconned BOG interview statement.

SSJB should be decently stronger, let's just say,
SSJB= 700,000x Goku

I don't see how you guys have the SSGSS multiplier as low as 500x. Vegeta was clearly holding back.

I don't see why Rose Black couldn't be tens of times stronger than Goku.
At this point, gaps don't matter anyways, You'd survive a fight even if you're a million times weaker.

[ZombieVito]

The recent SS2 Trunks vs Future Zamasu fight should be a problem but since it was said Zamasu lowers his guard a lot then it's fine.

Zamasu was even toying with him a bit there.