The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Cursed Lemon]

Can anyone link me to a thread concerning Cell-games-SSJ2-Gohan vs. Broly?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Any thread that exists would be old, and you'd be necro-posting. Just start that debate here.
Ssj2 Gohan vs M8 Broly: Gohan stomps hard.
Ssj2 Gohan vs M10 Broly: It'd be close, but I'd say Gohan.

[Cursed Lemon]

I just really wanted to do some reading more than anything. As I'm sure it's a topic that's been absolutely done to death (and zombified many times), but it's my favorite "what if" scenario in Dragonball.

[Cursed Lemon]

I guess the issue could likely be solved by the following:

1. The assumption is that the power Goku gathered from his friends to one-shot Broly is more or less a sum (rather than a multiplier), which would put him at roughly 5x FPSSJ.

2. What is the power multiplier for SSJ2 over SSJ?

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ2 is a 2 times multiplier, and I don't see how you get the idea that Broly is roughly 5 times FPSSJ . The Saiyans transferred their energy while in base, not to mention Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan weren't FPSSJs during the film.

[dbzfan7]

I personally go Broly (M8)<Cell FP<SPC<SSJ2 Kid Gohan<Broly (M10)

[Cursed Lemon]

SSJ2 is a 2 times multiplier, and I don't see how you get the idea that Broly is roughly 5 times FPSSJ . The Saiyans transferred their energy while in base, not to mention Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan weren't FPSSJs during the film.

I don't think anybody knows how strong Broly actually is, so it's impossible to throw an estimate out there with any sort of conviction.

Fair point about them being in base, but could Goku really go straight from being unable to land a single effective punch to utterly annihilating Broly in one shot (unless we're using the whole "old wound" theory) if he'd absorbed such a meager amount of energy?

And my implicit suggestion was that an ascended saiyan still has the same, or greater, pure energy potential as a FPSSJ. I'd have to assume that if Goku was a FPSSJ, so was Gohan at this point.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Saiyans transferred their energy while in base, not to mention Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan weren't FPSSJs during the film.

Gohan was a Super Saiyan Full Power, along with Goku.

Ssj2 Gohan vs M8 Broly
Ssj2 Gohan vs M10 Broly

M8 Broli gets destroyed, easily. M10 Broli however destroys Gohan.

[Cursed Lemon]

What's an average zenkai these days?

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Saiyans transferred their energy while in base, not to mention Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan weren't FPSSJs during the film.

Gohan was a Super Saiyan Full Power, along with Goku.

Gohan wasn't. It's debatable whether Goku was. I don't think he was.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

They both are Super Saiyan Full Power. There is no question in that.

[KentalSSJ6]

What's an average zenkai these days?

Its stated that after achieving Super Saiyan, the Zenkais either stop or become so small that they arent even noticeable. Essentially, after Namek they were pretty much written out with the exception of Cell when he came back after self destructing. For the most part though, they are obsolete these days.

[Kaboom]

Keep in mind that what Goku and Gohan did in the Room of Spirit and Time was a two-step process. "Super Saiyan Full Power" isn't actually a specific level of power. It just refers to the special, mastered, under-control Super Saiyan state. But after Goku and Gohan achieved that, they did a lot of sparring, and all that time spent training was what actually got them up to the power they had at the Cell Games.

So it's totally possible for Goku and Gohan to technically have the FPSSJ state in Movie 8, but for some reason or another not be as powerful as they were at the Cell Games.

[TheMightyOzaru]

They both are Super Saiyan Full Power. There is no question in that.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... 205c6f.jpg
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... 4cadc4.jpg

I think Gohan is rested and I think Goku is using the half power he showed Karin. Both are not FPSSJ. Gohan also can't be a FPSSJ Because he fairs the worst out of everyone in the movie.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think Gohan is rested and I think Goku is using the half power he showed Karin. Both are not FPSSJ. Gohan also can't be a FPSSJ Because he fairs the worst out of everyone in the movie.

They look like Super Saiyan Full Power/Grade 4, not like Super Saiyan (Grade 1). So, they are Super Saiyan Full Power. That doesn't mean they are as strong as they were at the Cell Games, they look to be weaker than that.

[Kid Buu]

On a flip note, if the Z Senshi (Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tenshinan, Chaotzu, Yamcha, Yajirobe) actually fought Nappa as a team (instead of Yamcha dying to a Saibaman, Yajirobe not fighitng, Gohan pussing out, and Tien and Chaotzu going suicide mode foe each other) how would they fare? For the sake of it, no Destructo Disk either.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I think Gohan is rested and I think Goku is using the half power he showed Karin. Both are not FPSSJ. Gohan also can't be a FPSSJ Because he fairs the worst out of everyone in the movie.

They look like Super Saiyan Full Power/Grade 4, not like Super Saiyan (Grade 1). So, they are Super Saiyan Full Power. That doesn't mean they are as strong as they were at the Cell Games, they look to be weaker than that.

I suppose Full Power is just a mastering of the form. I guess MSSJ really is the preferable term. That aside:
SSJ3 Gotenks(EoZ) vs Ultimate Gohan.

[Kaboom]

SSJ3 Gotenks(EoZ) vs Ultimate Gohan.

Putting aside the failure-prone character "quirks" of both combatants... Goten and Trunks are noted to be slacking already by the time of Heya! Goku and Friends Return, and still doing so by the manga's end. At best, they and Gotenks are unchanged from the Majin Boo arc, and at worst, they've actually gotten weaker. So at the very least, Gohan still has the same moderate edge over Gotenks in raw power that was there in the Boo arc, and it's possibly gotten even bigger. So Gohan wins.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I suppose Full Power is just a mastering of the form. I guess MSSJ really is the preferable term.

Super Saiyan Full Power is the official term for the mastered Super Saiyan form, so that's what I prefer to use.

SSJ3 Gotenks(EoZ) vs Ultimate Gohan.

Gohan stomps. I don't think either of them trained much during the 10 years.

[Rocketman]

I don't ever see Gotenks being able to kill Gohan, really. Gohan survived against Gotenks-Buu for thirty minutes and Gotenks can only hold SS3 for five. Even if Gotenks trained until he had Gotenks-Buu's strength, Gohan could outlast him.