Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Marlowe89
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:53 pm

Bullza wrote:The hair was completely different though.
I can see how it was maybe a bit spikier in the screenshots you posted, but that's not always the case. After Trunks initially completes the process of transforming into his Super state in the same episode, his hairstyle is virtually identical to what it was before. Compare images 1 and 3:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

The anime seemed to make a much bigger deal out of his new Super form than his power after training with Vegeta, so it doesn't make any sense for Super Trunks' gains to be smaller than his gains post-training. Just comparing Super Saiyan 2 Trunks with Super Trunks in general, it would be enormously shitty writing if he'd suddenly grown significantly stronger from that one day of training if Toei never once gave us a single line of dialogue in the show to indicate that; on top of that you have his lousy performance in Episode 61 where he has to be protected by Goku and Vegeta, which itself is at complete odds with the idea that pre-Super Trunks was powerful enough to fight at a level comparable to Super Saiyan Blue just because he got a couple of shots in on Super Saiyan Rose Black. Unless it was a rage boost, it just doesn't work.

Moreover, I wouldn't say it's fair to conclude that a Kaioshin's age means that Zamasu's strength automatically grows at a much slower rate compared to some of the mortals. I don't think those two necessarily have anything to do with each other, especially since Zamasu is considered a prodigy.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:42 pm

Pretty sure future Zamasu is at ssj blue level.

I think its similar to this:

ssj blue Vegeta
Black Rose(with sycthe)
Black Rose(no sycthe)
Super Trunks
Enraged ssj blue Goku
Black Rose(pre Goku beating)
Future Zamasu/ssj blue Goku/Vegeta(ep 57)/Base Black
ssj2 Trunks

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:55 pm

Apparently Merged Zamasu is so powerful Goku and Vegeta can't even get near him. Let alone attack him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 1997615104
I'm not surprised. Not at all.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:56 pm

That's the kind of cool power shit Super needed.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:09 pm

buutenks wrote:Pretty sure future Zamasu is at ssj blue level.

I think its similar to this:

ssj blue Vegeta
Black Rose(with sycthe)
Black Rose(no sycthe)

Super Trunks
Enraged ssj blue Goku
Black Rose(pre Goku beating)
Future Zamasu/ssj blue Goku/Vegeta(ep 57)/Base Black
ssj2 Trunks
Was a power up stated? On the subs I watched, Black only said he got a new power, which can be that new technique.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:42 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
buutenks wrote:Pretty sure future Zamasu is at ssj blue level.

I think its similar to this:

ssj blue Vegeta
Black Rose(with sycthe)
Black Rose(no sycthe)

Super Trunks
Enraged ssj blue Goku
Black Rose(pre Goku beating)
Future Zamasu/ssj blue Goku/Vegeta(ep 57)/Base Black
ssj2 Trunks
Was a power up stated? On the subs I watched, Black only said he got a new power, which can be that new technique.
He did say that his power went up to heights he never imagine. I am not sure if Vegeta was still stronger since Black screwed with Goku and Vegeta with clones and dared them to get stronger.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:53 pm

So Merged Zamasu has gotta be more powerful than Beerus surely? They can't get near him as a Super Saiyan Blue but Goku can give a real good go of it against Beerus.

It depends what they mean by can't get near him though. Do they mean they literally can't get near him because Zamasu has so much power?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:54 pm

Bullza wrote:So Merged Zamasu has gotta be more powerful than Beerus surely? They can't get near him as a Super Saiyan Blue but Goku can give a real good go of it against Beerus.

It depends what they mean by can't get near him though. Do they mean they literally can't get near him because Zamasu has so much power?
Herms mentioned that Merged Zamasu has some kind of technique that lets him kill anything he touches so it may be because of this and not strictly his power.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Legion » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:27 pm

Bullza wrote:So Merged Zamasu has gotta be more powerful than Beerus surely? They can't get near him as a Super Saiyan Blue but Goku can give a real good go of it against Beerus.

It depends what they mean by can't get near him though. Do they mean they literally can't get near him because Zamasu has so much power?
Beerus 100% that fights seriously stomps Goku, actually.

Anyway, probably they can't get near him for this "wall of light", a technique that destroys anything he touches.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:59 pm

Yes it's Litteral. The same happened to Vegeta with Whis back then in episode 16 where Vegeta said: "It's like a ki-less ki! It won't let me get near him!" (when trying to prepare an attack against him) it's the same with Merged Zamasu. And not because of any "Wall of Light" because obviously Zamasu won't need it. Not only that, but it's been explicitly revealed that Merged Zamasu REFUSES to defend himself. So it would make no sense for him to create a wall of light that evaporates anything it touches. That's being called desperate, and Zamack here is ANYTHING but desperate! In fact he's the total opposite!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Vados_chan » Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:19 pm

Why is Trunks god level? He didn't do anything to get it.

This as stupid as Vegeta getting SSG without the ritual.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:20 am

Vados_chan wrote:Why is Trunks god level? He didn't do anything to get it.
Plot. Same reason why all these other characters are of a similiar level. They need to be that strong or you've got no story.

There's no real good in universe explanation for it. He's got no ROSAT, no Gravity Machine, he's got nobody to spar with, he's had no special training and there's only been 10 years since the Cell Games which is a shorter period than it's been for Goku and Vegeta.

Unless he did something special with Supreme Kai (because even mastering the Z sword wouldnt put him above Buu) then there's no other explanation.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:54 am

Bullza wrote:So Merged Zamasu has gotta be more powerful than Beerus surely? They can't get near him as a Super Saiyan Blue but Goku can give a real good go of it against Beerus.

It depends what they mean by can't get near him though. Do they mean they literally can't get near him because Zamasu has so much power?
No, unless Toriyama himself STATES Merged Zamasu is stronger, Beerus will still be above.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:48 am

Vados_chan wrote:Why is Trunks god level?
The simplest explanation is that he's not, really - at least not before his recent boosts. Absolutely nothing in the series proper has ever directly suggested him to be God tier, and in Episode 54 he wasn't capable of sensing God ki even though Whis established in Episode 17 that the requirement for doing so is being of a certain power level which Goku and Vegeta reached before obtaining Super Saiyan Blue. In fact, if you look at this arc only within its own context then there's nothing that acually makes Trunks' portrayal in the anime all that different from his portrayal in the manga so far.

That being said, it's fair to assume that Trunks reached God tier with his Super transformation and perhaps his rage boost as well.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:09 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
Bullza wrote:So Merged Zamasu has gotta be more powerful than Beerus surely? They can't get near him as a Super Saiyan Blue but Goku can give a real good go of it against Beerus.

It depends what they mean by can't get near him though. Do they mean they literally can't get near him because Zamasu has so much power?
No, unless Toriyama himself STATES Merged Zamasu is stronger, Beerus will still be above.
You don't need to invoke Word of God to know something like that. Goku, Vegeta and the Supreme Kai are all able to throw out an estimate on Merged Zamasu's level of strength and say something like "With this fusion, he's surpassed even Beerus!" A statement from Toriyama himself isn't necessary to convey that message.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Legion » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:18 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:
Bullza wrote:So Merged Zamasu has gotta be more powerful than Beerus surely? They can't get near him as a Super Saiyan Blue but Goku can give a real good go of it against Beerus.

It depends what they mean by can't get near him though. Do they mean they literally can't get near him because Zamasu has so much power?
No, unless Toriyama himself STATES Merged Zamasu is stronger, Beerus will still be above.
You don't need to invoke Word of God to know something like that. Goku, Vegeta and the Supreme Kai are all able to throw out an estimate on Merged Zamasu's level of strength and say something like "With this fusion, he's surpassed even Beerus!" A statement from Toriyama himself isn't necessary to convey that message.
Well, with Toriyama, i think that he means a statement of his characters, like Goku and Kaioshin. But not Zamasu, because is not credible lol

But If Toriyama will not make any comparison, we'll never know, sadly. Not until we see Beerus 100%.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:03 pm

Bullza wrote:So Merged Zamasu has gotta be more powerful than Beerus surely? They can't get near him as a Super Saiyan Blue but Goku can give a real good go of it against Beerus.

It depends what they mean by can't get near him though. Do they mean they literally can't get near him because Zamasu has so much power?
They might be comparable, just as Goku hinted several episodes ago. He never saw Beerus at full power to make that comparison, though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:13 pm

Legion wrote:
Alruneia wrote: But If Toriyama will not make any comparison, we'll never know, sadly. Not until we see Beerus 100%.
When even Kaioken x10 Goku can't surpass Beerus who is only 10x stronger than "Rageta", then we REQUIRE an in-universe or official statement when someone actually does surpass him. I think even Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto won't hold a candle to Beerus's full power. It's kinda funny how Beerus was excited to fight SSJG Goku.

Let me analyze the amount of PIS here:

Let's say Base!Goku is a 1.
SSJ3!Goku was not enough to defeat Evil!Boo, even with superior skill and the help of SSJ2!Vegeta.
Evil!Boo is at least a 500, going by that.
Gohan!Boo is theoretically Gohan + Boo, And since Gohan > Boo, Gohan!Boo is at least a 1,000.
Base!Vegetto beats up Gohan!Boo like there's no tommorow, albeit with superior skill.
Boo says something along the lines of "But you can't say you've surpassed me" IIRC, let's just say Vegetto's also 1,000.

Blue!Vegetto would be a 1,000 times stronger than Blue!Goku. And if Beerus is still superior to him, then that'd mean that Beerus was using less than 0.1 percent of his power against Goku. And if you consider that SSJ Goku is equal to Godku in BoG, then boy... Beerus would be using LESS THAN 0.01 PERCENT OF HIS TRUE POWER.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Legion » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:23 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:
Legion wrote:
Alruneia wrote: But If Toriyama will not make any comparison, we'll never know, sadly. Not until we see Beerus 100%.
When even Kaioken x10 Goku can't surpass Beerus who is only 10x stronger than "Rageta", then we REQUIRE an in-universe or official statement when someone actually does surpass him. I think even Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto won't hold a candle to Beerus's full power. It's kinda funny how Beerus was excited to fight SSJG Goku.

Let me analyze the amount of PIS here:

Let's say Base!Goku is a 1.
SSJ3!Goku was not enough to defeat Evil!Boo, even with superior skill and the help of SSJ2!Vegeta.
Evil!Boo is at least a 500, going by that.
Gohan!Boo is theoretically Gohan + Boo, And since Gohan > Boo, Gohan!Boo is at least a 1,000.
Base!Vegetto beats up Gohan!Boo like there's no tommorow, albeit with superior skill.
Boo says something along the lines of "But you can't say you've surpassed me" IIRC, let's just say Vegetto's also 1,000.

Blue!Vegetto would be a 1,000 times stronger than Blue!Goku. And if Beerus is still superior to him, then that'd mean that Beerus was using less than 0.1 percent of his power against Goku. And if you consider that SSJ Goku is equal to Godku in BoG, then boy... Beerus would be using LESS THAN 0.01 PERCENT OF HIS TRUE POWER.
Mmh i don't think that Toriyama still cares about power levels and numbers. The characters are as strong as the plot requires them to be.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:28 pm

Legion wrote: Mmh i don't think that Toriyama still cares about power levels and numbers. The characters are as strong as the plot requires them to be.
There is no doubt about that. We had stupid shit like becoming "Several times" stronger from climbing a tower for 3 days and becoming ~33x stronger from nearly dying, but at least we had some explanation. Freeza's Golden form and Trunks's Superpower are just ridiculous in that regard.
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