Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

Power Levels, Power Scalling and Power Levels Logic were a mistake.

You can't get around it. It's fine to not think of it numerically, but it's very simple. Even American comics have it. Captain America can't overpower The Hulk.

[8000 Saiyan]

Sabat's voice is VERY distinctive. Even his normal voice stands out in a crowd. If you were watching a show and a random commercial came on, would you not immediately recognize his voice? And what about Goku does Schemmel not get?

He still has some of his scripts rewritten.

For example, in the first episode of Super, there's a scene where Goku talks about training for future threats and that it's all centered around simply preparing for the future.

In the FUNi version, he mentions how he has to keep training to keep his loved ones safe. Is it really necessary to do such a rewrite?

Okay, he's not a great writer, but this is about his performance.

I honestly don't know Doctor's problems with Schemmel, but I don't mind Schemmel since Kai.

[jeffbr92]

I adore the Great Saiyaman stuff at the beginning of the Buu arc.

I didn't think this was an unpopular opinion but a lot of the people I talked to recently seemed to unanimously say that it was terrible.

Weird.

I'm second to that, I actually love the first episodes in the Boo arc, showing Gohan as a 16 years old in High School interacting with normal people and dealing the fact he's super strong and has to fight crime as a interesting take.

[GamerSkull]

I adore the Great Saiyaman stuff at the beginning of the Buu arc.

I didn't think this was an unpopular opinion but a lot of the people I talked to recently seemed to unanimously say that it was terrible.

Weird.

I'm second to that, I actually love the first episodes in the Boo arc, showing Gohan as a 16 years old in High School interacting with normal people and dealing the fact he's super strong and has to fight crime as a interesting take.

Yeah, I think it's great... and Gohan and Videl's interactions are pretty cool too. It's the only ship in the series that I think is any good.

It's probably my favorite part of the Buu arc, tbh.

[The Patrolman]

Power Levels, Power Scalling and Power Levels Logic were a mistake.

In what way?

[Lightdasher]

I'll rephrase that to reflect what I would say it is an unpopular opinion but: too many transformations is/were a mistake.

I think so, too. I feel the tipping point (if we're to discount GT for now) was after Super Saiyan 3. I'm not overly opposed to God form on its own at the point of its debut, though having it restricted to Super Saiyans takes away from the uniqueness for me, and further saturates the Super Saiyan transformations counter. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (I find its redundant name funny in these conversations) is the form where transformations got much too crowded for me, especially since prior transformations were made so useless as a result. I liked that Super Saiyan 3 asked for an unfathomable amount of effort, in addition to posing restrictions, for the benefits it gave, mainly because this meant SS1 and SS2 were still viable to show off. As a general SS2 fan, I am glad SS2 has been taken much more often in Super (especially by Goku), but its appearance does imply that the ensuing fights likely won't be too remarkable.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

He still has some of his scripts rewritten.

For example, in the first episode of Super, there's a scene where Goku talks about training for future threats and that it's all centered around simply preparing for the future.

In the FUNi version, he mentions how he has to keep training to keep his loved ones safe. Is it really necessary to do such a rewrite?

Okay, he's not a great writer, but this is about his performance.

I honestly don't know Doctor's problems with Schemmel, but I don't mind Schemmel since Kai.

Thisclip alone shows he gets the character. (Man, I love DBS Goku!)

[Dbzfan94]

I honestly don't know Doctor's problems with Schemmel, but I don't mind Schemmel since Kai.
Thisclip alone shows he gets the character. (Man, I love DBS Goku!)

That's exactly one of the reasons why I dont like him

[ABED]

I honestly don't know Doctor's problems with Schemmel, but I don't mind Schemmel since Kai.
Thisclip alone shows he gets the character. (Man, I love DBS Goku!)

That's exactly one of the reasons why I dont like him

What about that clip bothers you?

[Dbzfan94]

I honestly don't know Doctor's problems with Schemmel, but I don't mind Schemmel since Kai.
Thisclip alone shows he gets the character. (Man, I love DBS Goku!)

That's exactly one of the reasons why I dont like him

What about that clip bothers you?

Granted while Whis' explanation was complicated, Trunks told him all about time travel back in Z and understood it perfectly. No reason why couldnt get it now.

[ABED]

That's exactly one of the reasons why I dont like him

What about that clip bothers you?

Granted while Whis' explanation was complicated, Trunks told him all about time travel back in Z and understood it perfectly. No reason why couldnt get it now.

The difference is Trunks simply told him he came back in time. In this clip he's explaining the mechanics of time travel.

[Gaffer Tape]

I adore the Great Saiyaman stuff at the beginning of the Buu arc.

I didn't think this was an unpopular opinion but a lot of the people I talked to recently seemed to unanimously say that it was terrible.

Weird.

In the anime, the Great Saiyaman stuff are among my favorite episodes, period. However, in the manga, it feels like a long setup for a joke Toriyama got bored of telling about halfway through so it's unceremoniously dumped aside before it has a chance to get to any kind of payoff.

[ABED]

What kind of payoff are you expecting from Gohan dealing with street thugs?

[Gaffer Tape]

What kind of payoff are you expecting from Gohan dealing with street thugs?

Actually getting to see him do it for more than five seconds. The story spends about three times as much time setting up the whole Great Saiyaman concept as it does actually using it (outside of a tournament alias). He sets up new high school characters only to immediately dump them outside of a cameo.

Or, well, the TV series. That's the kind of payoff I expect.

[ABED]

What kind of payoff are you expecting from Gohan dealing with street thugs?

Actually getting to see him do it for more than five seconds. The story spends about three times as much time setting up the whole Great Saiyaman concept as it does actually using it (outside of a tournament alias). He sets up new high school characters only to immediately dump them outside of a cameo.

Or, well, the TV series. That's the kind of payoff I expect.

Again, what grand payoff could there be? There's no challenge for Gohan. It's little more than a humorous side story than a setup for something grander. This is a kid that's fought world ending threats, galactic dictators, and killed a being that put said dictator to shame. What great threat is street level crime to Gohan? I'd say the real pay off to it was finding the girl who would become his wife.

It doesn't help that I'm not a fan of the story for that reason. It goes on way too long in DBZ. There's an unpopular opininon as it seems the consensus is that The Great Saiyaman part is well received.

[Gaffer Tape]

Again, what grand payoff could there be?

I never mentioned anything about a "grand" payoff. But I already explained what kind of payoff I was looking for, so I'm not sure why you're asking again or what I could possibly add to that. Great Saiyaman in the manga feels like an orphaned punchline to me. And considering Toriyama admits he felt that Gohan was not suited for the role of main character, and that's pretty much exactly the point where the story turns to bringing Goku back, I don't doubt that it IS an orphaned punchline.

[GamerSkull]

I adore the Great Saiyaman stuff at the beginning of the Buu arc.

I didn't think this was an unpopular opinion but a lot of the people I talked to recently seemed to unanimously say that it was terrible.

Weird.

In the anime, the Great Saiyaman stuff are among my favorite episodes, period. However, in the manga, it feels like a long setup for a joke Toriyama got bored of telling about halfway through so it's unceremoniously dumped aside before it has a chance to get to any kind of payoff.

I don't mind the manga version myself... but you are mostly right. And the anime version is vastly superior indeed.

[ABED]

Again, what grand payoff could there be?

I never mentioned anything about a "grand" payoff. But I already explained what kind of payoff I was looking for, so I'm not sure why you're asking again or what I could possibly add to that. Great Saiyaman in the manga feels like an orphaned punchline to me. And considering Toriyama admits he felt that Gohan was not suited for the role of main character, and that's pretty much exactly the point where the story turns to bringing Goku back, I don't doubt that it IS an orphaned punchline.

And I think it's worth little more than a punchline. I think it's about 5/6 episodes in Z, and even that feels like a story that went longer than it should. And I don't recall you saying what kind of payoff you wanted. You implied it but I don't think you said specifically what you think should've come out of it. I'm not doing this to bug you, but I don't understand how even in the manga it didn't go on longer than it should have. It's a storyline that feels so beside the point and it doesn't feel like something that could've been better integrated into the main story. It feels like an idea that is more befitting a coda or a skit.

[Gaffer Tape]

And I think it's worth little more than a punchline. I think it's about 5/6 episodes in Z, and even that feels like a story that went longer than it should. And I don't recall you saying what kind of payoff you wanted. You implied it but I don't think you said specifically what you think should've come out of it. I'm not doing this to bug you, but I don't understand how even in the manga it didn't go on longer than it should have. It's a storyline that feels so beside the point and it doesn't feel like something that could've been better integrated into the main story. It feels like an idea that is more befitting a coda or a skit.

You'll have to forgive me. I was writing the previous responses on a phone, which I hate doing, and it definitely caused me to use my words sparingly. But might as well give this what it deserves.

Comedy is more subjective than even most other forms of art. And to be honest, I find it hilarious that Gohan goes to all that trouble only for Videl to immediately see right through the whole thing. I like the anime version too. It works for a different reason, having Gohan blurt out his identity in a crisis that requires his identity to be known. And it makes the next episode unintentionally hilarious, how he still uses the manga line that Videl found out who he is through his voice. In the new context it's almost as if he's covering up his own stupidity. But I digress. Even so, I think the manga version is funnier. But it's just not worth the journey we had to take to get there, in my opinion.

Remember that it took over a month to get to that punchline, even in the manga. It took re-introducing Gohan. Introducing Satan City. Introducing Orange Star High School. Introducing Videl. Introducing Erasa. Introducing Sharpner. Establishing that Super Saiyan is not a good enough disguise. Getting a costume. Picking out a name. That is a lot, lot, lot, LOT of build-up for a whole lot of nothing. We never see Satan City again. We never see Orange Star High School again. We never see Erasa or Sharpner again. All of these new characters and new locations are immediately scrapped and replaced with the same characters and same locations we've always had. And it's very difficult for me to buy that all of that stuff was there just so Great Saiyaman could strut around for a couple of pages. It seems incredibly obvious to me that Toriyama was building a story, got bored with it, and then just jettisoned it. And whether you like the material or not, that's very frustrating to read all of this stuff that ultimately doesn't matter because Toriyama's face slammed into the reset button harder than it ever had before.

And I can't be the only person who thought that. The new TV intro? We Gotta Power? They put Sharpner, Erasa, Orange Star High School, and Great Saiyaman into the opening freaking credits!!! Sharpner and Erasa are in the main character group shot at the end of the song! Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chiaotzu? Nowhere to be seen. But those classmates of Gohan who appear in probably less than half a dozen chapters? They're right up there alongside Goku and the gang. They obviously thought this was going to go somewhere. And why wouldn't they?

And it certainly doesn't help that this is the first in the never-ending string of attention-deficit writing that is the Boo Arc. This new story is going to have Gohan as the main character, and we'll spend time with him in high school. No, screw that. Gohan sucks. He's dropping out of school. Goku's coming back. We're going to a tournament. No, wait. Forget the tournament. There's a new take-over-the-world plot that must be stopped. And now it's time for the next generation to step up to the plate through Fusion. No, forget Fusion. This is about Gohan again. No, wait. I forgot that Gohan's a loser. Let's make it about Goku again. This is getting into a broader topic, but the Boo Arc changes direction so often and so suddenly it gives me whiplash.

I don't think the anime handled Great Saiyaman perfectly. It was obviously constrained by the next developments in the story. But I do think it says a lot, considering how nearly panel-perfect an adaptation the DB television series were, that they would rewrite that so drastically. But it does allow Great Saiyaman to stay around long enough for the audience to actually get a chance to enjoy and get immersed in the concept of Gohan fighting crime, being a student, and dealing with and getting to know Videl. It doesn't feel like a setup that goes nowhere, like it does in the manga. It feels like a setup that has its day before switching gears. And they're just fun stories all on their own.

[ABED]

Alright, now I understand your point. I get that it feels like a lot of set up for very little, but it's not like he created a storyline and left that thread dangling. That's more frustrating. It's just a storyline that doesn't lead to anything bigger. It feels like little more than a sidebar and not one I found interesting, so I'm glad he abandoned it.

What it feels like is Toriyama didn't know where he was going and he fumbled his way through the beginning of the story arc until he figured out where he wanted to go and as a consequence, the setup takes forever. But that is what the whole arc feels like. It feels like an artist fumbling around until he finds something he likes and thus we get an arc that is way too long. If he had planned it all out, I don't think he would've spent much time on Gohan in high school. At best, it's worth a small coda or a handful of chapters. It's too long even for the manga and I don't think the fix is even more time spent on it.

You like the stories. I don't. Great Saiyaman feels like a completely different show, and it's not funny. It's like a longer version of the driving episode. A lot of people mention how funny they think it is, but I don't find it funny at all.

If I were to sum this up, it seems that you believe that given the attention it got (Gohan's high school characters) there should've been more to it than we got. I take the other perspective - it should never have gotten the focus it did. There's very little worth mining out of that premise, at least not for DB.

I agree that the Buu arc lacks focus, but a number of the moments you mentioned are just reversals. Goku already won the tournament and given the level the Z Team is at, fighting in the tournament feels hollow and a logic set up for something more than just the tournament.