Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Luso Saiyan]

Yet they stuck with King Vegeta having reddish brown hair.

Brown-ish hue, not brown hair. It's meant to be black, like all Saiyans:

[MR.Mark]

Yup, it fits Dragon Ball perfectly. King Kai's planet was shrunk over a game of hide-and-seek. The first wish ever made on the items the series was named after was a pair of panties. Dragon Ball is childish. It's made for children.

Even so, I'd argue that if true that isn't even childish or funny. That highlights Cold's disregard for life, cruelty and monkey racism witch passed on to Freeza's upbringing.

I also really hope Freeza is a child here, so many mysteries to his race, it would be a nice addition.

[Chuquita]

But if Brolli destroys this arctic area (presuming it's at one of the poles) wouldn't that cause immense flooding across DB Earth? Or maybe if it wouldn't be brought up.
Makes me think of the fact that when Kamesennin destroys the moon the first time that it has actual repercussions (though gag-related) in the form of Man-Wolf at the tournament.

On blue and stamina...I really enjoy ssjg Goku, but because I really enjoy him I don't have the urge to need any reasoning as to why Goku's in ssjg instead of ssjblue, but whatever.

On Bulma and wishing for youth...you know, sure. Why not. Vegeta gets to be perpetually in his prime until he's 80 so I can see Bulma wanting to not feel like she's left behind (on that note I can see even Goku being tempted into a wish to keep himself from hitting that big aging hump at 80 so he can stay in his prime and continue to see how strong he can get).

Toei couldn’t even keep their power scaling organize.

Do you honestly expect them to think about small details concerning the artic area and flooding?

Power scaling is something I don't care about. I'm not the person to ask.

Please re-read my first paragraph because I said "Or maybe if it wouldn't be brought up" in regards to the flooding. I agreed with you right there.

It's not just you, but I'm starting to think not everyone reads everything in these longer posts when I make them and they only skim through/glance at them.

[Mister_Popo]

This is just plain stupid.. And pisses me off. Blue never had these stamina issues before. And Blue at this point is weak as fuck! Especially considering they’ve been spamming Blue KAIOKEN, aswell as Blue EVOLUTION in the Tournament of Power. Even after completely “depleting” all their stamina and energy, even nearly dying in Vegeta’s case. Still spammed the Evo form without much trouble. And now they are trying to tell us that Blue is too draining? Toei just choses whatever best suits their plot purposes. They want to have their cake and eat it too. This is unacceptable and deserves and needs to be critisized.

It has been mentioned sometimes in the anime that Super Saiyan Blue has stamina issues (and Super Saiyan God drains less stamina), this was never resolved in the anime.

In the manga, it's mentioned that Blue drains stamina too, it was resolved on the manga. I guess the movie (and Toriyama) doesn't follow the manga on this.

It was never 'resolved' but Goku and Vegeta still pop into Blue more often than any other form, so it's not like Toei ever gave a shit about the supposed stamina problems the form is meant to have.

Correct, but haven't they said with this new 'beginning' they want to make the transformations more authentic / true to their real nature?
If they want to visualize Blue as more stamina training, maybe that's why we may expect more Red in the movie.
That might be the reason as well we'll see Gogeta in two colors.

[Kanassa]

Paragus is controlling Broly under Frieza's orders?

[Konja7]

It was never 'resolved' but Goku and Vegeta still pop into Blue more often than any other form, so it's not like Toei ever gave a shit about the supposed stamina problems the form is meant to have.

It's true that Toei use Blue a lot and doesn't really treat the issue of Blue draining.

However, the times we see them using Blue more times in a row are two arcs:

- The arc of Future Trunks, where they use senzu beans constantly.

- The Tournament of Power, which only last 48 minutes. Even then, they try to save energy in some moments.

[RecolorSaiyan]

ssj3 and golden (in the RoF) arc what i'd call stamina draining forms.



Maybe SSB fixing its stamina issues was never a part of toriyama's drafts for super and so he just ignores the manga and anime versions fixing those issues and goes with his own continuity. Thats the only reason i can think of

[Lord Frieza]

Spoiler:

Well both heroes and the app games show Rage Broly doing a mouth blast. If it in the movie I can but think of Bio-Broly as that was one of his signature moves.

[Konja7]

Maybe SSB fixing its stamina issues was never a part of toriyama's drafts for super and so he just ignores the manga and anime versions fixing those issues and goes with his own continuity. Thats the only reason i can think of

The anime doesn't fix the issue of stamina drain on Blue, the anime just doesn't show a lot this effect.

The only "solution" the anime offers is that Goku uses Red (which drains less energy) instead of Blue.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Maybe SSB fixing its stamina issues was never a part of toriyama's drafts for super and so he just ignores the manga and anime versions fixing those issues and goes with his own continuity. Thats the only reason i can think of

The anime doesn't fix the issue of stamina drain on Blue, the anime just doesn't show a lot this effect.

The only "solution" the anime offers is tha Goku uses Red (which drains less energy) instead of Blue.

So then the stamina issues in the anime were just lip service. Show don't tell right.
Hell the point of the RoF arc was that goku's power stayed steady during a long battle and that Freeza bled out, now all of a sudden ssb is heavily stamina draining?

[Noah]

About this whole issue regarding SSJB stamina issues, could we expect Gogeta to combine both Red and Blue forms to a perfect new one in order to defeat Broly?

The idea that Freeza might’ve been an adolescent when he wiped out the Saiyans is something I can’t really get behind.

Yeah, me too. I always had in mind that Freeza was on his early 50s when he destroyed Planet Vegeta and not because he heard about any stupid legend of a Super Saiyan/God or such and yes because he knew Saiyans could be a trouble in the future if they came together to overthrow him.

Most likely a new soundtrack from the movie:

The first few seconds reminded me of that Life To Be Protected (gosh, such a shame this track never had a chance of being played on Super)

Still don't even get the issue with his age. Literally has no importance to anything. When was the last time Vegeta being older than Goku was brought up as an important plot point?

Are you kidding? This straight contradicts official materials like the Daizenshuu 7 or the Super Exciting Guide. It might don't be a issue on the original manga, but I don't treat like people are stupid to being upset with such a pointless retcon.

Spoiler:

Vegeta looks bad, I don't like his new kid design at all. They should stick with his previous look, especially since it was shown in BoG arc. Goku and Broly designs are good.

That's not a kid desing, it's mini-adult. Children have completely diffrent proportions. Apparently we are going to Middle Ages with their creepy aestetic.

I agree, it's a bit sad how Toriyama lost his touch, I mean Goku and Broly are decent though, but Vegeta is just awful.

[Konja7]

So then the stamina issues in the anime were just lip service. Show don't tell right.
Hell the point of the RoF arc was that goku's power stayed steady during a long battle and that Freeza bled out, now all of a sudden ssb is heavily stamina draining?

Well, the point is that Goku can control better his power than Freeza. That doesn't mean Blue can't strain stamina.


The stamina issues on Blue was introduced on Champa Tournament. So, it's a characteristic that appear pretty soon.

The anime doesn't focus a lot in this aspect, but it has certain sense:

- In Future Trunks arc, characters use Senzu Beans constantly, so they don't need to show the drain.

- The Tournament of Power only last 48 minutes, while Goku uses other ways to save energy.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Maybe SSB fixing its stamina issues was never a part of toriyama's drafts for super and so he just ignores the manga and anime versions fixing those issues and goes with his own continuity. Thats the only reason i can think of

The anime doesn't fix the issue of stamina drain on Blue, the anime just doesn't show a lot this effect.

The only "solution" the anime offers is tha Goku uses Red (which drains less energy) instead of Blue.

So then the stamina issues in the anime were just lip service. Show don't tell right.
Hell the point of the RoF arc was that goku's power stayed steady during a long battle and that Freeza bled out, now all of a sudden ssb is heavily stamina draining?

I think this is Toriyama basically saying Goku/Vegeta had been using SSGSS ineffectively up at this point and probably doesn't want to give them a new form so he reworked the old ones. Goku & Vegeta are still learning. Experiences in the ToP probably made them realise that they should have been using SS to SSG to SSGSS to make effective use of their powers. This would explain why SS2&3 is ditched and why Vegeta now has SSG for the movie. For example in #56 if they say didn't rush into SSGSS they might not have got so beat up by Black.

In RF Goku was struggling to keep up with Freeza and only got an out because Freeza's drain was more heavy.

[BlueBasilisk]

It's true that Toei use Blue a lot and doesn't really treat the issue of Blue draining.

However, the times we see them using Blue more times in a row are two arcs:

- The arc of Future Trunks, where they use senzu beans constantly.

- The Tournament of Power, which only last 48 minutes. Even then, they try to save energy in some moments.

The Future Trunks arc also had a couple trips back to the past and some other bits of down time between fights, iirc.

And I think people keep overlooking the amount of decompression going on in the ToP. It was 48 minutes spread across 34 episodes. Most of the episodes only lasted a minute in-universe. While Goku used SSB multiple times most of those uses amounted to seconds in in-show time, so they weren't long battles at all. The longest continuous stretch of SSB being used was the final battle with Universe 11 which was from 122-127 in the tournament's final 10 minutes. If you calculated the amount of time Goku used SSB in the context of thosr 48 minutes I suspect it would total about 16 minutes or possibly even less. IIRC his clash with Jiren in 109 before the Spirit Bomb was less than 20 seconds.

That kind of decomression really screws with the viewer's perception of things. Like with Goku's fight with Frieza on Namek. It didn't actually take four hours for that to play out.

[Doctor.]

I don't really mind the Vegeta age retcon either. It's being used in service of the story. Retcons aren't inherently bad or pointless.

I will mind if they forget the whole "Vegeta was stronger than his father as a child" thing.

[BlueBasilisk]

I don't really mind the Vegeta age retcon either. It's being used in service of the story. Retcons aren't inherently bad or pointless.

I will mind if they forget the whole "Vegeta was stronger than his father as a child" thing.

It looks like they're sticking with the prodigy angle so hopefully it'll stay. I hope we get to see Frieza fight the king too.

Frieza possibly being a child opens some doors for King Cold to get some development so I'm really interested in that. He obviously couldn't get anything in the Bardock special since he didn't exist yet.

[RecolorSaiyan]

So then the stamina issues in the anime were just lip service. Show don't tell right.
Hell the point of the RoF arc was that goku's power stayed steady during a long battle and that Freeza bled out, now all of a sudden ssb is heavily stamina draining?

Well, the point is that Goku can control better his power than Freeza. That doesn't mean Blue can't strain stamina.


The stamina issues on Blue was introduced on Champa Tournament. So, it's a characteristic that appear pretty soon.

The anime doesn't focus a lot in this aspect, but it has certain sense:

- In Future Trunks arc, characters use Senzu Beans constantly, so they don't need to show the drain.

- The Tournament of Power only last 48 minutes, while Goku uses other ways to save energy.

Except their use of senzu's had nothing to do with the "drain of ssb"

The first time they used senzu's was AFTER running away to the present timeline, Vegeta had been impaled while Goku and Trunks took a huge attack from Goku Black

The second time they used senzu's was after m zamasu had seriously hurt them with his "blades of justice", turned their legs into "jelly". Then vegeta took a killshot intended for trunks which seriously damaged him. Goku broke his arms with a kamehameha, got legs turned to jelly again and then used up his last remaining energy on kaioken.

Their use of senzu's was related to asskickings dished out by stronger fighters and not the drain of ssb.

Even in the ToP at no point was it shown that the ssb form itself drained goku or vegeta of their energy like say Golden did to Freeza in RoF or SSJ3 did to Goku in his fight with Kid Buu

[YamiGoku]

Great, now Master Roshi used to be a saiyan?

damn you Toriyama and your retcons!

this is the last camel to break the straw's back.

[Konja7]

Except their use of senzu's had nothing to do with the "drain of ssb"

The first time they used senzu's was AFTER running away to the present timeline, Vegeta had been impaled while Goku and Trunks took a huge attack from Goku Black

The second time they used senzu's was after m zamasu had seriously hurt them with his "blades of justice", turned their legs into "jelly". Then vegeta took a killshot intended for trunks which seriously damaged him. Goku broke his arms with a kamehameha, got legs turned to jelly again and then used up his last remaining energy on kaioken.

Their use of senzu's was related to asskickings dished out by stronger fighters and not the drain of ssb.

Even in the ToP at no point was it shown that the ssb form itself drained goku or vegeta of their energy like say Golden did to Freeza in RoF or SSJ3 did to Goku in his fight with Kid Buu

My point is that Toei doesn't need to show the drain on Blue in these situations:

The Senzu recover the energy of the characters constantly, so Toei doesn't need to show the drain that Blue caused.

In the Tournament of Power, the characters use certain ways to preserve energy in the 48 minutes of the tournament, so Toei doesn't need to show the drain either (although the drain is mentioned).


Of course, I would like Toei showing the effect of the draining, but that was not necessary in those circumstances.

[FortuneSSJ]

Toei wrote Freeza character in such a brilliant way in Universe Survival arc that would be interesting to go deeper with his plot of overtaking the Gods.
But If he's forcing Paragus to control Broly and as everyone already knows he was the one to destroy Planet Vegeta, then I doubt he will survive in the end.

Honestly at this point feels like Toriyama is holding Toei back, but let's see how it goes.