Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Ajay]

At this point I feel like no matter how much time they have, Super will always look bad.
It's like the main problem isn't schedule, but a lack of fresh and talented staff (or atleast there some of the higher ups holding them down)

It'd be nice to have a change up of staff, and I've definitely spoken about that in detail before, but Super's primary issues are absolutely all to do with scheduling. 100%. That is the number one problem that plagues Super every single week.

The most telltale signs of a poorly scheduled show are multiple animation supervisors and a huge number of key animators. A solid episode can be made with a single supervisor and a small team. The most recent climactic episode of One Piece had its key scenes created using 14 animators (including the supervisor). We look at Dragon Ball Super's finale, and we've got 12 animators (including supervisors), but also two supervisors, and two assistant supervisors. You don't need four supervisor roles for a climax unless you have absolutely no time available. Moreover, you've got at least three big name animators who are more than capable of producing great cuts. Instead, we got a very bland episode with nothing noteworthy at all. That is all down to schedule; these animators don't have the time to do their thing.

Super could easily swap out its colour designer, character designer, and supervisor rotation, but it wouldn't make any difference with the current time pressures they're under. Unless you fill the entire staff with fast and talented animators like Naoki Tate, it's not going to make much difference -- not to mention how rough Tate's work has been despite its movement. Shida's known for being a lot slower than most, so even his presence probably wouldn't do much other than provide nice detailed drawings. A talent without time is never going to deliver to the best of their ability, unfortunately.

[FortuneSSJ]

At this point I feel like no matter how much time they have, Super will always look bad.
It's like the main problem isn't schedule, but a lack of fresh and talented staff (or atleast there some of the higher ups holding them down)

Nah, it's the schedule.
Unless the show is put on hiatus so they can have time to do everything properly (which will never happen), Super will have a hard joruney. But things seem to be better.
It's not like Toei doesn't care but sometimes things are beyond help, unless you come up with a drastic solution.

[DragonHermit]

It's not like there are no good scenes whatsoever. It's just followed by crappy scenes afterwards. Even E5 had some kickass cuts.

I think post-production has less time than pre.

[ArchedThunder]

It's not like there are no good scenes whatsoever. It's just followed by crappy scenes afterwards. Even E5 had some kickass cuts.

I think post-production has less time than pre.

If Episode 39 is anything to go by, by the time they are ready to get to the actual animation part of the production of an episode there are only 3 weeks left until air time. There are enough regular animation supervisors on the show now, it seems it's mainly a matter of getting everything before animation straightened out. If they don't have anything really planed to directly fix that I imagine things will just improve over time, but hopefully they use the time between arcs as chances to improve the schedule, even if that means we end up with like 5 or more shitty filler episodes before an arc starts.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the reason King Ryu was made composer was to improve the half of production before animation.
I'm sure as the schedule improves we'll start to see more talented people drip into the production as I'm pretty sure that's the biggest reason very few people want to work on it.

[Ajay]

Had some spare time so I created some supervisor comparisons for the Champa arc. For episodes with multiple supervisors, I wrote down the name and used the images of the artist whose style was most prevalent.

Spoiler:

So much easier to do this this far into the series now that I'm way more familiar with the supervisors' different styles, alongside the fact they've started adhering less strictly to the character sheets.

[ArchedThunder]

I kinda like Yashima's Goku, he's cute. I just wish he'd tone it down on the pointy noses.

[Lord Beerus]

Had some spare time so I created some supervisor comparisons for the Champa arc. For episodes with multiple supervisors, I wrote down the name and used the images of the artist whose style was most prevalent.

Spoiler:

So much easier to do this this far into the series now that I'm way more familiar with the supervisors' different styles, alongside the fact they've started adhering less strictly to the character sheets.

If from now on out, the animation supervisors for episodes of Super were basically a constant rotation of Ishikawa, Tate, Karasawa, Shimanuki, Kitano and Toma, with a sprinkling of Yamamuro via close-ups, I wouldn't mind that one bit. Toei needs to ditch Yahsima. He is easily the weakest among the bunch. His artstyle just sucks.

[ArchedThunder]

Had some spare time so I created some supervisor comparisons for the Champa arc. For episodes with multiple supervisors, I wrote down the name and used the images of the artist whose style was most prevalent.

Spoiler:

So much easier to do this this far into the series now that I'm way more familiar with the supervisors' different styles, alongside the fact they've started adhering less strictly to the character sheets.

If from now on out, the animation supervisors for episodes of Super were basically a constant rotation of Ishikawa, Tate, Karasawa, Shimanuki, Kitano and Toma, with a sprinkling of Yamamuro via close-ups, I wouldn't mind that one bit. Toei needs to ditch Yahsima. He is easily the weakest among the bunch. His artstyle just sucks.

He's quick, so they need him. His episodes would benefit from him being handed more animators though.

[Ajay]

Yashima's one of the biggest helps to the schedule there is. His art style might not be all too great, but his ability to solo entire episodes gives other animators more time to work on the future episodes. Would be nice to have another Yashima-type animator in the rotation just to help things out a bit.

[DragonHermit]

Shida's work in the DBZ/OP crossover. Why can't they get him for some key scenes

https://sakuga.yshi.org/data/6b5a9baa6f ... 764fad.mp4 - credit to @zZToastie on twitter

[ArchedThunder]

Yashima's one of the biggest helps to the schedule there is. His art style might not be all too great, but his ability to solo entire episodes gives other animators more time to work on the future episodes. Would be nice to have another Yashima-type animator in the rotation just to help things out a bit.

I'd be okay with that if that meant that they had more animators on hand for other episodes, it'd be a good temporary fix while they worked on improving the schedule.
I do kinda wish Yashima at least had someone working with him specifically to correct his art though.

Shida's work in the DBZ/OP crossover. Why can't they get him for some key scenes

https://sakuga.yshi.org/data/6b5a9baa6f ... 764fad.mp4 - credit to @zZToastie on twitter

I imagine it's simply that Shida doesn't want to work on Super. Hopefully if that's the case it's just because of the current schedule of the show and if/when it gets to a more manageable place he'll pop in from time to time, possibly work on Super movies if we get them, or if the series ends and we get another one a little ways down the line without the production issues of Super he'll work on that.
I really hope he isn't just done with Dragon Ball and it is specifically the schedule of Super that is keeping him away.

[DragonHermit]

It's not like there are no good scenes whatsoever. It's just followed by crappy scenes afterwards. Even E5 had some kickass cuts.

I think post-production has less time than pre.

If Episode 39 is anything to go by, by the time they are ready to get to the actual animation part of the production of an episode there are only 3 weeks left until air time. There are enough regular animation supervisors on the show now, it seems it's mainly a matter of getting everything before animation straightened out. If they don't have anything really planed to directly fix that I imagine things will just improve over time, but hopefully they use the time between arcs as chances to improve the schedule, even if that means we end up with like 5 or more shitty filler episodes before an arc starts.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the reason King Ryu was made composer to improve the half of production before animation.
I'm sure as the schedule improves we'll start to see more talented people drip into the production as I'm pretty sure that's the biggest reason very few people want to work on it.

Slice of life episodes have been great, so if it helps the schedule get on track, and give more time to re-organize, by all means they should go for it.

[Wezenheim]

Yashima's ability to animate is pretty impressive to me. It makes me chuckle to look at some of these past few episodes with so many key animators and then when you look at a Yashima episode, there may only be a few other names along with his! His episodes are pretty underwhelming sometimes, and I'm not his biggest fan, but we definitely need him right now. I find that his character acting can be pretty charming at times when he wants it to be too. I'm just glad to see Shimanuki get better, there were some really good drawings in the NEP for tomorrow.

[FortuneSSJ]

I imagine it's simply that Shida doesn't want to work on Super.

Most likely because he's busy. I assume his quality takes time.
He's doing all OP Key scenes, working on OP Film Gold, doing some Sailor Moon Crystal tranformations, and possibly also working on the new OP opening.

[ArchedThunder]

Yashima's ability to animate is pretty impressive to me. It makes me chuckle to look at some of these past few episodes with so many key animators and then when you look at a Yashima episode, there may only be a few other names along with his! His episodes are pretty underwhelming sometimes, and I'm not his biggest fan, but we definitely need him right now. I find that his character acting can be pretty charming at times when he wants it to be too. I'm just glad to see Shimanuki get better, there were some really good drawings in the NEP for tomorrow.

Yashima episodes usually have a surprising amount of motion for what they are, I hope one day Yashima is able to a Dragon Ball episode with a normal amount of time and with a good team.

[kinisking]

I know dragonBall super won't look this good for obvious reasons but http://m.imgur.com/oUdnTrt?r wow. Would've loved for hit to have reacted this way in the anime too

[Ajay]

I know dragonBall super won't look this good for obvious reasons but http://m.imgur.com/oUdnTrt?r wow. Would've loved for hit to have reacted this way in the anime too

Shame, really. What's in that commercial isn't particularly special. Models might not be as detailed, but that type of movement is totally feasible in a weekly show with a good schedule.

[Avok]

At this point I feel like no matter how much time they have, Super will always look bad.
It's like the main problem isn't schedule, but a lack of fresh and talented staff (or atleast there some of the higher ups holding them down)

It'd be nice to have a change up of staff, and I've definitely spoken about that in detail before, but Super's primary issues are absolutely all to do with scheduling. 100%. That is the number one problem that plagues Super every single week.

The most telltale signs of a poorly scheduled show are multiple animation supervisors and a huge number of key animators. A solid episode can be made with a single supervisor and a small team. The most recent climactic episode of One Piece had its key scenes created using 14 animators (including the supervisor). We look at Dragon Ball Super's finale, and we've got 12 animators (including supervisors), but also two supervisors, and two assistant supervisors. You don't need four supervisor roles for a climax unless you have absolutely no time available. Moreover, you've got at least three big name animators who are more than capable of producing great cuts. Instead, we got a very bland episode with nothing noteworthy at all. That is all down to schedule; these animators don't have the time to do their thing.

Super could easily swap out its colour designer, character designer, and supervisor rotation, but it wouldn't make any difference with the current time pressures they're under. Unless you fill the entire staff with fast and talented animators like Naoki Tate, it's not going to make much difference -- not to mention how rough Tate's work has been despite its movement. Shida's known for being a lot slower than most, so even his presence probably wouldn't do much other than provide nice detailed drawings. A talent without time is never going to deliver to the best of their ability, unfortunately.

Oh yeah, I know the scheduling is the main problem of the series, but what I meant was that the best Super could look is like the movies. And while the art is on model and the animation is nice, they look too by the book despite being high budget productions.

For example, the Saitama vs Boros is a fight that has everything that Dragon Ball animated productions have been lacking: dynamic scenes that convey the strenght and scale of the fights, good soundtracks and a nice effects.

When I see this I think see Goku vs Beerus, or Frieza, but then even the movies don't have something even remotely close to this. Or to this, or this. The move at 5:40 (in the video above) is almost identical to a Kamehameha, and yet the movies don't have a scene as dynamic and with effects as sharp as that one. You feel the weight of the move, the lighting amazing and the shots are interesting.

That's what my point: Dragon Ball productions are -for the most part- stuck in the past.
There are good bits here and there. For example, in the opening of Ultimate Tenkaichi there is a beautiful scene of Piccolo firing a Makankosappo that is on par with what I posted above (well, it's too short but the quality is there) and in the same opening the fight of Goku vs the custom characters is well done as well.

[FortuneSSJ]

I know dragonBall super won't look this good for obvious reasons but http://m.imgur.com/oUdnTrt?r wow. Would've loved for hit to have reacted this way in the anime too

At this point, I just hope Toei goes that extra mile when we get our inevitable next movie and makes it look beautiful.
We deserve it.

[Ajay]

That's what my point: Dragon Ball productions are -for the most part- stuck in the past.

If you're talking about Dragon Ball in general then you certainly don't need to tell me twice. I've spoken at length about Yamamuro and the production committee being totally unwilling to try new things with the series. Horrible character designs and a lead supervisor obsessed with mundane action is never going to let the series go anywhere fun, especially when he keeps getting put in more and more senior positions.