Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
- VegetaSSJBlue
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:29 pm
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
MULTIPLIERS
Oozaru – 10x
Super Saiyan – 50x
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 75x
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 100x
Super Saiyan 2 – 100x
Super Saiyan 3 – 200x
Raditz Arc
[spoiler]Son Gohan – 1
Enraged – 1,307
Son Goku – 416
Piccolo – 408
Tenshinhan – 250
Kuririn – 206
Yamcha – 177
Chaozu – 150
Yajirobe – 145
Muten Roshi – 139
Kaio of the North – 5,000
Enma Daio – 2,500
Kami of Earth – 325
Mr. Popo – 275
Raditz – 1,200
Oozaru – 12,000[/spoiler]
Saiyan Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 8,000
Kaio-Ken x2 – 16,000
Kaio-Ken x3 – 24,000
Kaio-Ken x4 – 32,000
Son Gohan – 1,200
Enraged – 2,800
Oozaru – 12,000
Piccolo – 2,500
Tenshinhan – 1,800
Kuririn – 1,500
Yamcha – 1,300
Chaozu – 1,000
Yajirobe – 600
Saibaimen – 1,200
Nappa – 7,500
Oozaru – 75,000
Vegeta – 18,000
Oozaru – 180,000[/spoiler]
Namek Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 90,000
Kaio-Ken x2 – 180,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 900,000
Vegeta – 24,000
Post-recovery – 30,000
Post-recovery 2 – 50,000
Son Gohan – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 15,000
Post-recovery – 30,000
Kuririn – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 12,500
Dende – 250
Power Unlocked – 1,000
Muri – 1,250
Young Namekians – 3,000
Nail – 42,000
Freeza Soldiers – 1,000
Kwi – 18,000
Dodoria – 20,000
Zarbon – 22,000
Transformed – 30,000
Gurd – 1,000
Recoome – 40,000
Butta – 40,000
Jheese – 40,000
Captain Ginyu – 120,000
Freeza – 530,000[/spoiler]
Freeza Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 2,000,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 20,000,000
Kaio-Ken x20 – 40,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000
Vegeta – 500,000
Post-recovery – 1,700,000
Son Gohan – 100,000
Enraged – 800,000
Post-recovery – 250,000
Enraged – 1,500,000
Piccolo – 110,000
Merged with Nail – 1,100,000
Kuririn – 12,500
Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 850,000
Power Up 1 – 950,000
Power Up 2 – 1,050,000
Third Form – 1,500,000
True Form – 2,000,000
50% Power – 42,500,000
70% Power – 59,500,000
100% Power – 85,000,000[/spoiler]
Mecha Freeza Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 2,200,000
Super Saiyan – 110,000,000
Trunks – 2,100,000
Super Saiyan – 105,000,000
Vegeta – 1,800,000
Piccolo – 1,500,000
Son Gohan – 250,000
Tenshinhan – 15,000
Kuririn – 12,500
Yamcha – 10,000
Chaozu – 5,000
Freeza Soldiers – 1,000
King Cold – 80,000,000
Mecha Freeza – 95,000,000[/spoiler]
Future Arc I
[spoiler]Future Gohan – 2,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000
Kid Trunks – 40,000
Super Saiyan – 2,000,000
Future Android 18 – 150,000,000
Future Android 17 – 150,000,000[/spoiler]
Artificial Human Arc
[spoiler]Vegeta – 2,500,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000
Son Goku – 2,400,000
Super Saiyan – 120,000,000
Trunks – 2,200,000
Super Saiyan – 110,000,000
Piccolo – 75,000,000
Gohan – 2,000,000
Tenshinhan – 18,000
Kuririn – 15,000
Yamcha – 12,000
Chaozu – 6,000
Android 19 – 25,000,000
Post-absorption – 50,000,000
Android 20 – 30,000,000
Post-absorption – 60,000,000
Android 18 – 150,000,000
Android 17 – 150,000,000
Android 16 – 180,000,000
Cell – 130,000,000[/spoiler]
Cell Arc
[spoiler]Vegeta – 4,500,000
Super Saiyan – 225,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 337,500,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 450,000,000
Trunks – 4,400,000
Super Saiyan – 220,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 330,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 440,000,000
Piccolo – 150,000,000
Android 18 – 150,000,000
Android 17 – 150,000,000
Android 16 – 180,000,000
Cell – 180,000,000
Second Form – 230,000,000
Full Power – 275,000,000
Perfect Form – 320,000,000
Power Up – 400,000,000
Bulked Up – 480,000,000[/spoiler]
Cell Games Arc
[spoiler]Son Gohan – 24,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,200,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,400,000,000
Injured – 1,100,000,000
Son Goku – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,000,000,000
Vegeta – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Piccolo – 600,000,000
Android 16 – 180,000,000
Cell Juniors – 750,000,000
Perfect Cell – 1,050,000,000
Full Speed – 1,250,000,000
Full Power – 1,500,000,000
Bulked Up – 1,800,000,000
"Super Perfect" – 2,000,000,000[/spoiler]
Future Arc II
[spoiler]Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
3 Years Later – 17,000,000
Super Saiyan – 850,000,000
Future Android 18 – 150,000,000
Future Android 17 – 150,000,000
Cell – 180,000,000[/spoiler]
Buu Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 25,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,250,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 5,000,000,000
Vegeta – 22,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,100,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,200,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 [Majin boost] – 2,500,000,000
Son Gohan – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,000,000,000
Ultimate – 30,000,000,000
Son Goten – 10,000,000
Super Saiyan – 500,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 12,000,000
Super Saiyan – 600,000,000
Trunks – 10,500,000
Super Saiyan – 525,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 12,000,000
Super Saiyan – 600,000,000
Gotenks – 100,000,000
Super Saiyan – 5,000,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 120,000,000
Super Saiyan – 6,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 12,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 24,000,000,000
Vegetto – 2,500,000,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 500,000,000,000
Piccolo – 750,000,000
Tenshinhan – 22,500
Kuririn – 12,500
Yamcha – 10,000
Chaozu – 7,500
Kibito – 1,000,000
Kaioshin of the East - 900,000,000
Merged – 4,500,000,000
Pui Pui– 6,000
Yakon – 30,000,000
Dabra – 1,500,000,000
Pure Boo – 5,000,000,000
Buff Boo – 22,500,000,000
Majin Boo – 4,500,000,000
Evil Boo – 2,500,000,000
Good Boo – 2,000,000,000
Super Boo – 20,000,000,000
+ Piccolo – 20,750,000,000
+ Gotenks – 44,000,000,000
+ Son Gohan – 50,000,000,000[/spoiler]
28th Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 6,000,000,000
Vegeta – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000
Son Goten – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Son Gohan – 30,000,000,000
Mister Boo– 2,000,000,000
Piccolo – 950,000,000
Oob – 25,000,000
Pan – 500,000[/spoiler]
Oozaru – 10x
Super Saiyan – 50x
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 75x
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 100x
Super Saiyan 2 – 100x
Super Saiyan 3 – 200x
Raditz Arc
[spoiler]Son Gohan – 1
Enraged – 1,307
Son Goku – 416
Piccolo – 408
Tenshinhan – 250
Kuririn – 206
Yamcha – 177
Chaozu – 150
Yajirobe – 145
Muten Roshi – 139
Kaio of the North – 5,000
Enma Daio – 2,500
Kami of Earth – 325
Mr. Popo – 275
Raditz – 1,200
Oozaru – 12,000[/spoiler]
Saiyan Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 8,000
Kaio-Ken x2 – 16,000
Kaio-Ken x3 – 24,000
Kaio-Ken x4 – 32,000
Son Gohan – 1,200
Enraged – 2,800
Oozaru – 12,000
Piccolo – 2,500
Tenshinhan – 1,800
Kuririn – 1,500
Yamcha – 1,300
Chaozu – 1,000
Yajirobe – 600
Saibaimen – 1,200
Nappa – 7,500
Oozaru – 75,000
Vegeta – 18,000
Oozaru – 180,000[/spoiler]
Namek Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 90,000
Kaio-Ken x2 – 180,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 900,000
Vegeta – 24,000
Post-recovery – 30,000
Post-recovery 2 – 50,000
Son Gohan – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 15,000
Post-recovery – 30,000
Kuririn – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 12,500
Dende – 250
Power Unlocked – 1,000
Muri – 1,250
Young Namekians – 3,000
Nail – 42,000
Freeza Soldiers – 1,000
Kwi – 18,000
Dodoria – 20,000
Zarbon – 22,000
Transformed – 30,000
Gurd – 1,000
Recoome – 40,000
Butta – 40,000
Jheese – 40,000
Captain Ginyu – 120,000
Freeza – 530,000[/spoiler]
Freeza Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 2,000,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 20,000,000
Kaio-Ken x20 – 40,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000
Vegeta – 500,000
Post-recovery – 1,700,000
Son Gohan – 100,000
Enraged – 800,000
Post-recovery – 250,000
Enraged – 1,500,000
Piccolo – 110,000
Merged with Nail – 1,100,000
Kuririn – 12,500
Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 850,000
Power Up 1 – 950,000
Power Up 2 – 1,050,000
Third Form – 1,500,000
True Form – 2,000,000
50% Power – 42,500,000
70% Power – 59,500,000
100% Power – 85,000,000[/spoiler]
Mecha Freeza Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 2,200,000
Super Saiyan – 110,000,000
Trunks – 2,100,000
Super Saiyan – 105,000,000
Vegeta – 1,800,000
Piccolo – 1,500,000
Son Gohan – 250,000
Tenshinhan – 15,000
Kuririn – 12,500
Yamcha – 10,000
Chaozu – 5,000
Freeza Soldiers – 1,000
King Cold – 80,000,000
Mecha Freeza – 95,000,000[/spoiler]
Future Arc I
[spoiler]Future Gohan – 2,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000
Kid Trunks – 40,000
Super Saiyan – 2,000,000
Future Android 18 – 150,000,000
Future Android 17 – 150,000,000[/spoiler]
Artificial Human Arc
[spoiler]Vegeta – 2,500,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000
Son Goku – 2,400,000
Super Saiyan – 120,000,000
Trunks – 2,200,000
Super Saiyan – 110,000,000
Piccolo – 75,000,000
Gohan – 2,000,000
Tenshinhan – 18,000
Kuririn – 15,000
Yamcha – 12,000
Chaozu – 6,000
Android 19 – 25,000,000
Post-absorption – 50,000,000
Android 20 – 30,000,000
Post-absorption – 60,000,000
Android 18 – 150,000,000
Android 17 – 150,000,000
Android 16 – 180,000,000
Cell – 130,000,000[/spoiler]
Cell Arc
[spoiler]Vegeta – 4,500,000
Super Saiyan – 225,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 337,500,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 450,000,000
Trunks – 4,400,000
Super Saiyan – 220,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 330,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 440,000,000
Piccolo – 150,000,000
Android 18 – 150,000,000
Android 17 – 150,000,000
Android 16 – 180,000,000
Cell – 180,000,000
Second Form – 230,000,000
Full Power – 275,000,000
Perfect Form – 320,000,000
Power Up – 400,000,000
Bulked Up – 480,000,000[/spoiler]
Cell Games Arc
[spoiler]Son Gohan – 24,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,200,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,400,000,000
Injured – 1,100,000,000
Son Goku – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,000,000,000
Vegeta – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Piccolo – 600,000,000
Android 16 – 180,000,000
Cell Juniors – 750,000,000
Perfect Cell – 1,050,000,000
Full Speed – 1,250,000,000
Full Power – 1,500,000,000
Bulked Up – 1,800,000,000
"Super Perfect" – 2,000,000,000[/spoiler]
Future Arc II
[spoiler]Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
3 Years Later – 17,000,000
Super Saiyan – 850,000,000
Future Android 18 – 150,000,000
Future Android 17 – 150,000,000
Cell – 180,000,000[/spoiler]
Buu Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 25,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,250,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 5,000,000,000
Vegeta – 22,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,100,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,200,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 [Majin boost] – 2,500,000,000
Son Gohan – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,000,000,000
Ultimate – 30,000,000,000
Son Goten – 10,000,000
Super Saiyan – 500,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 12,000,000
Super Saiyan – 600,000,000
Trunks – 10,500,000
Super Saiyan – 525,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 12,000,000
Super Saiyan – 600,000,000
Gotenks – 100,000,000
Super Saiyan – 5,000,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 120,000,000
Super Saiyan – 6,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 12,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 24,000,000,000
Vegetto – 2,500,000,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 500,000,000,000
Piccolo – 750,000,000
Tenshinhan – 22,500
Kuririn – 12,500
Yamcha – 10,000
Chaozu – 7,500
Kibito – 1,000,000
Kaioshin of the East - 900,000,000
Merged – 4,500,000,000
Pui Pui– 6,000
Yakon – 30,000,000
Dabra – 1,500,000,000
Pure Boo – 5,000,000,000
Buff Boo – 22,500,000,000
Majin Boo – 4,500,000,000
Evil Boo – 2,500,000,000
Good Boo – 2,000,000,000
Super Boo – 20,000,000,000
+ Piccolo – 20,750,000,000
+ Gotenks – 44,000,000,000
+ Son Gohan – 50,000,000,000[/spoiler]
28th Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
[spoiler]Son Goku – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 6,000,000,000
Vegeta – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000
Son Goten – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 750,000,000
Son Gohan – 30,000,000,000
Mister Boo– 2,000,000,000
Piccolo – 950,000,000
Oob – 25,000,000
Pan – 500,000[/spoiler]
- TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
He could have just trained to become stronger, but considering the huge gap between them I really doubt he covered it in only ~5 years. Furthermore, Goku isn't massively stronger than he was in the Buu Arc and he was completely clowning Final Form Frost as an SSJ whereas Piccolo had some serious difficulty with even a weakened Frost so I think this shows that compared to SSJs he's still far weaker.Bullza wrote:So how does Piccolo being stronger than Super Saiyan Goten and Kid Trunks work out? The Universe 6 saga heavily implied it.
Forget that "Piccolo trained with Gohan to get stronger" because he was still implied to be stronger in the manga as well where that training never happened.
If he's stronger than Super Saiyan Goten and the Daizenshuu said Goten has strength not the least bit inferior to Gohan then that would make Piccolo stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan which would be contradictory because he was much weaker than the Supreme Kai who was weaker than the Super Saiyans.
The only way it'd work is if Piccolo got a significantly stronger from the Buu saga to the Universe 6 saga and the kids (and most others) just stayed the same.
- apex_pretador
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Why is this a question?Noah wrote:In a "What-If" scenario that Super Boo manages to absorb both SSJ3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan, would he be way stronger than Boo-han?
For me, he was always stronger than the kids.Bullza wrote:So how does Piccolo being stronger than Super Saiyan Goten and Kid Trunks work out? The Universe 6 saga heavily implied it.
Forget that "Piccolo trained with Gohan to get stronger" because he was still implied to be stronger in the manga as well where that training never happened.
If he's stronger than Super Saiyan Goten and the Daizenshuu said Goten has strength not the least bit inferior to Gohan then that would make Piccolo stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan which would be contradictory because he was much weaker than the Supreme Kai who was weaker than the Super Saiyans.
The only way it'd work is if Piccolo got a significantly stronger from the Buu saga to the Universe 6 saga and the kids (and most others) just stayed the same.
- TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Wait a minute, I'm not seeing how the math works out here. If Gohan and Buu combined are 20 and then Gotenks adds 15 on top of that, wouldn't he be stronger than Ultimate Gohan? I don't see how it ends up any higher than 30, personally I'd put Buuhantenks at 28-29.DanielSSJ wrote: Uh, yeah? He'd basically be Evil Boo + Gohan + Gotenks, as opposed to Evil Boo + Gohan. If Gohan Boo was a 20, Gohan-Gotenks Boo would be a 35. He's still fall short to Vegetto here, who's like a 50 in his regular Super Saiyan form.
- DanielSSJ
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Oops, I somehow confused Gohan Boo with Gotenks Boo. In that case, Gohan Boo is a 25, and Gohan-Gotenks Boo is still a 35. Still a sizable increase.TheUltimateNinja wrote:Wait a minute, I'm not seeing how the math works out here. If Gohan and Buu combined are 20 and then Gotenks adds 15 on top of that, wouldn't he be stronger than Ultimate Gohan? I don't see how it ends up any higher than 30, personally I'd put Buuhantenks at 28-29.
My Official Unofficial Battle Power list (in-progress: updated 11/8/2022—FREEZA ARC COMPLETED)
- TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I've realized that it's possible to make Dragon Ball statements compatible with Z power levels after all. Here's the list:
First Hunt For The Dragon Balls:
Goku: 10
-Hungry: 7.5
-Tailless: 9
Yamcha: 8.5
Bear thief: 6.5
Gyumao: 12
Roshi: 15
-Buff: 300
21st Budokai:
Training:
Goku: 9
Kuririn: 7.5
Roshi: 18
Tournament:
Goku: 18
-Tail: 20
Kuririn: 16
Yamcha: 13
Jackie Chun: 20
Nam: 17
Red Ribbon Army/Uranai Baba:
Goku: 21.5
-Post Karin: 60
Blue: 18
Tao: 40
Uranai Baba's Tournament:
Goku: 60
-Tailless: 55
Yamcha: 13.5
Kuririn: 16.5
Mummy: 22.5
Akkuman: 36
Gohan: 50
22nd Budokai:
Goku: 90
-Match level: 65-75
Kuririn: 67.5
Yamcha: 63
Chappa: 45
Chaozu: 55
Tenshinhan: 88
Tambourine: 80
Piccolo Daimao:
Goku: 90
-God Water: 240
Tambourine: 80
Cymbal: 30
Yajirobe: 75
Drum: 100
Piccolo: 210
-Half: 105
-Young: 250
Popo: 360
Kami: 480
23rd Budokai:
Goku: 755
-Weighted: 240
-Suppressed: 90-150
Chichi: 80
Yamcha: 175
Kuririn: 200
Tenshinhan: 245
Piccolo: 750
-Weighted: 450
-Suppressed: 200-260
Kami: 480
-Shen: 420
Beginning of Z:
Goku 924
-Suppressed: 416
-Weighted: 334
Piccolo: 910
-Suppressed: 408
-Weighted: 322
Tenshinhan: 250
Kuririn: 206
Yamcha: 177
Raditz: 1,300
First Hunt For The Dragon Balls:
Goku: 10
-Hungry: 7.5
-Tailless: 9
Yamcha: 8.5
Bear thief: 6.5
Gyumao: 12
Roshi: 15
-Buff: 300
21st Budokai:
Training:
Goku: 9
Kuririn: 7.5
Roshi: 18
Tournament:
Goku: 18
-Tail: 20
Kuririn: 16
Yamcha: 13
Jackie Chun: 20
Nam: 17
Red Ribbon Army/Uranai Baba:
Goku: 21.5
-Post Karin: 60
Blue: 18
Tao: 40
Uranai Baba's Tournament:
Goku: 60
-Tailless: 55
Yamcha: 13.5
Kuririn: 16.5
Mummy: 22.5
Akkuman: 36
Gohan: 50
22nd Budokai:
Goku: 90
-Match level: 65-75
Kuririn: 67.5
Yamcha: 63
Chappa: 45
Chaozu: 55
Tenshinhan: 88
Tambourine: 80
Piccolo Daimao:
Goku: 90
-God Water: 240
Tambourine: 80
Cymbal: 30
Yajirobe: 75
Drum: 100
Piccolo: 210
-Half: 105
-Young: 250
Popo: 360
Kami: 480
23rd Budokai:
Goku: 755
-Weighted: 240
-Suppressed: 90-150
Chichi: 80
Yamcha: 175
Kuririn: 200
Tenshinhan: 245
Piccolo: 750
-Weighted: 450
-Suppressed: 200-260
Kami: 480
-Shen: 420
Beginning of Z:
Goku 924
-Suppressed: 416
-Weighted: 334
Piccolo: 910
-Suppressed: 408
-Weighted: 322
Tenshinhan: 250
Kuririn: 206
Yamcha: 177
Raditz: 1,300
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Couldn't that just mean that Super Saiyan Goku in the Buu saga improved more than we thought? Or Super Saiyan Gohan weakened more than we thought?TheUltimateNinja wrote:He could have just trained to become stronger, but considering the huge gap between them I really doubt he covered it in only ~5 years. Furthermore, Goku isn't massively stronger than he was in the Buu Arc and he was completely clowning Final Form Frost as an SSJ whereas Piccolo had some serious difficulty with even a weakened Frost so I think this shows that compared to SSJs he's still far weaker.
Perhaps there was a larger gap between Goku/Vegeta and Gohan that was originally believed. Also in the manga version the difference between Super Saiyan Goku and Piccolo didn't appear to be nearly as large as was made out to be in the anime.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I would like some feedback for this DB Super list in which I assume Goku and Vegeta's SSJ form is more powerful than their God Ki base, that's why they still use those forms after RoF.
Multipliers
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 9,000x
Super Saiyan Blue (SSB) - 10,000x
Super Saiyan Rosè (SSR) - 100x
Dragon Ball Super Power Levels
Multipliers
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 9,000x
Super Saiyan Blue (SSB) - 10,000x
Super Saiyan Rosè (SSR) - 100x
Dragon Ball Super Power Levels
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
- TheUltimateNinja
- I Live Here
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Gohan becoming weaker than we thought is only possible in the manga since in the anime he was stronger than Piccolo in Base and the U6 tournament takes place only a few days after that.Bullza wrote:Couldn't that just mean that Super Saiyan Goku in the Buu saga improved more than we thought? Or Super Saiyan Gohan weakened more than we thought?TheUltimateNinja wrote:He could have just trained to become stronger, but considering the huge gap between them I really doubt he covered it in only ~5 years. Furthermore, Goku isn't massively stronger than he was in the Buu Arc and he was completely clowning Final Form Frost as an SSJ whereas Piccolo had some serious difficulty with even a weakened Frost so I think this shows that compared to SSJs he's still far weaker.
Perhaps there was a larger gap between Goku/Vegeta and Gohan that was originally believed. Also in the manga version the difference between Super Saiyan Goku and Piccolo didn't appear to be nearly as large as was made out to be in the anime.
Also, what time period are we talking about here? Because if it's the Buu Arc, the gap definitely wasn't massive.
And in the manga the difference is still pretty big, it goes SSJ Goku >> Frost > Drained Frost > Piccolo. Also, Goku says Piccolo has no chance against even an exhausted Frost and Piccolo himself believes this.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I mean by the Buu saga. We know Gohan grew weaker since the Cell Games but maybe he just grew even weaker than we thought to the point that Piccolo was able to surpass this level after 4-5 years of casual training since the Buu saga.TheUltimateNinja wrote:Also, what time period are we talking about here? Because if it's the Buu Arc, the gap definitely wasn't massive.
Though it would mean Piccolo would have to have improved enough to overcome what was supposed to be a big gap between himself and Supreme Kai and Super Saiyan Gohan was supposed to be stronger still.
Well Frost wasn't as pitiful compared to Super Saiyan Goku in the manga but the biggest difference is that they didn't actually make a comment about Frost being in any significant way weaker by the time he fought Piccolo. In the anime he said how he'd lost enough power that he couldn't accidentally kill him but the manga didn't make any comment like that.And in the manga the difference is still pretty big, it goes SSJ Goku >> Frost > Drained Frost > Piccolo. Also, Goku says Piccolo has no chance against even an exhausted Frost and Piccolo himself believes this.
Piccolo did say he couldn't beat Frost but said he couldn't beat him either and they were somewhat more equal there. Goku's comment could easily have been said due to falsely believing that Frost was stronger than himself.
- ZombieVito
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Piccolo can't be that stronger than normal base Goku. They had comparable speed in episode 47.emperior wrote:I would like some feedback for this DB Super list in which I assume Goku and Vegeta's SSJ form is more powerful than their God Ki base, that's why they still use those forms after RoF.
Multipliers
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 9,000x
Super Saiyan Blue (SSB) - 10,000x
Super Saiyan Rosè (SSR) - 100x
Dragon Ball Super Power Levels
Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:
I also seriously doubt Assault form Frost is weaker than Namek Freeza.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I don't think it makes sense to compare Piccolo and Goku's power from that scene. About Frost's power level, he is a little weaker than 100% Freezer from Namek on my list, what's wrong with that?ZombieVito wrote:Piccolo can't be that stronger than normal base Goku. They had comparable speed in episode 47.emperior wrote:I would like some feedback for this DB Super list in which I assume Goku and Vegeta's SSJ form is more powerful than their God Ki base, that's why they still use those forms after RoF.
Multipliers
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 9,000x
Super Saiyan Blue (SSB) - 10,000x
Super Saiyan Rosè (SSR) - 100x
Dragon Ball Super Power Levels
Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:
I also seriously doubt Assault form Frost is weaker than Namek Freeza.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
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dragonball0900
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Hey guys. Following from my Mecha Frieza arc Power Level List, here is my Androids Arc Power Level List. With information, reasoning, statements, explanations. Trying to make sense of what these power levels can be able to fit with what we see in the series and in the guides. Here is also my Mecha Frieza arc list for everyone to have an idea of how they were in relation to my Androids arc list:
Mecha Frieza Arc:
[spoiler]Mecha Frieza - 150,000,000
Frieza stated that his power is greater than his previous 100% final form (120,000,000 of power). He also has some confidence in defeating SSJ Goku (150,000,000 of power). I decided to place him at the same power as Goku was, because Frieza also brought his father with him for help. Also I don't think Frieza completely surpassed that version of Goku.
King Cold - 100,000,000
Just a random number. But strong enough to act as assistance to his son against Goku.
King Cold's Soldiers - 1,000 to 2,000
Pretty much like Frieza's soldiers. Nothing important here.
Future Trunks - 3,400,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 170,000,000
Future Trunks is obviously stronger than Mecha Frieza and Namek Saga Goku. Despite the fact that Gohan mentioned the ki was similar to his dad, it could still be just because they are both SSJ's, and obviously they would feel like the same.
Trunks is strong enough to handle Mecha Frieza with ease. Frieza may not be at 100%. But still it's possible he was, because let's remember how the fight between Vegeta and Goku (Kaioken X2) went, they were 18K and 16K respectively, and Vegeta seems to dominate Goku with ease.
Goku - 3,500,000
SSJ Goku - 175,000,000
Goku is stated to be stronger than Future Trunks, since the latter was amazed by his power, and was even stronger than how he expected him to be, that's stated in the manga clearly. He also manages to deflect Trunks's sword with a finger, even though they were holding back, it was still amazing for Trunks. This Goku would also be able to manhadle Mecha Frieza and Trunks with full ease.
Vegeta - 2,800,000
I just made his gains in training similar to Goku's. My number for Vegeta in the Frieza arc was 2,400,000 (for those who don't remember my Frieza arc power level list). He would still probably be higher, possibly at the same power that Goku had back in the Frieza arc (3,000,000).
Piccolo - 2,700,000
I think Piccolo's fusion with Nail probably is what made Piccolo's boosts higher during this part of the series. I don't believe he surpassed Vegeta, but I would say they were quite close. Goku even mentioned Piccolo as first guess of who defeated Frieza. Even though that's not really evidence for me that he surpasses Vegeta, it's still something we should consider.
Gohan - 200,000
I don't think his power changed from his Frieza arc self. He didn't really train that much, since he was more busy with studies. But who knows if he did...? Anyways, it only passed 2 years, so I don't think that's that much for Gohan to have his power declining as much as how he was during the 7 year gap between the Cell and Buu arcs.
Krillin - 120,000
I will admit, I am a Tien > Krillin believer, and I don't want to start one of those silly "Krillin vs Tien" debates since I do want to keep with my own opinion on the matter. HOWEVER, I WILL agree that Krillin was stronger than Tien at the time of this part of the series, as well as the Cell arc. However, I'm still not convinced with the Buu arc, as well as with Dragon Ball Super where I just can't accept that Krillin is stronger than Tien. Probably by the Buu arc maybe (I'm still with doubts though), but definitely not Super, since a lot of time has already happened, and Tien always trains. Krillin's power would also be declining by the time too.
But we should better focus on here. Krillin by the time he died would have 75,000 (since I mentioned in my Frieza arc power level list that I won't accept that number for the first part of the Frieza fight). Later as time went on Earth, Krillin would still be training. And considering his gains would be bigger because of his unlock potential by Guru, he would reach this number of 120,000 (a bit less than the 1.8 multiplier that I give him).
Tenshinhan - 85,000
As I said above, Tien has to be weaker than Krillin here. The reason I put Tien at 85,000 is simple. Considering Goku recieved like a 20 times increase from his training with King Kai. Tien, having Yamcha and Chiaotzu (although the latter is too weak) as partners, as well as how he promised to make better methods of training, aas well as the fact that he trained nearly doubling the days of Goku. I would say his power increased 40 times his old strenght (1,830). That would leave him to 73,200. After a year of training, his power could've increased further more, leaving him to 85,000.
Yamcha - 34,000
This would be a similar case to Tien. This time, since he trained with a stronger Tien at King Kai's planet, and nearly the same amount of Goku's days (136 to 158, not that close but still), he would be reaching 20 times stronger his old strenght (1,480). Leaving him to nearly 30,000. His power would later be at 34,000 since I do think that he still trained, but with gains less than the others.
Chiaotzu - 21,000
Unlike Tien and Yamcha, here Chiaotzu would have less gains in training with King Kai. Instead of a 20 times stronger, he would be 15 times stronger, the reason is because it has been proved that Chiaotzu's gains, no matter how much he trains, are so small. Look his number in the saiyan arc (610), is too low and his difference in gap with Yamcha (the second weakest) has gotten wider. Specially since it's somewhat stated that in the 23rd Budokai that Chiaotzu was already equal, if not above Roshi (who is 139). My personal number I have him for the Raditz arc is 150. A difference of x1.18 in comparison to Yamcha. Later in the saiyan arc, there was a difference in a gap that is more than 2 times. That means that Chiaotzu improved much less than the others.
The same would apply here. His power level would multiply by 15 instead of 20. 30 times (since he trained 260 days like Tien) his old strenght (610) is 18,300. Add a year more of training and would probably reach 21,000.
And that's all. Tell me what you think about these power levels if you agree or disagree. Up next is the Androids Arc.[/spoiler]
Androids Arc:
[spoiler]Android 19 - 140,000,000
Android 19 Post Absorbtion - 160,000,000
Android 20 - 150,000,000
Android 20 Post Absorbtion - 180,000,000
I have the Androids stronger than Frieza, and around Frieza Arc SSJ Goku. The reason is because Android 19 was able to stand up against a Sick Goku who was stronger than his Yadrat self, who was stronger than his Frieza arc self.
Android 19 was stated to be weaker than Android 20 before each one's absorptions.
I also have the levels for Android 19 after absorbing Goku's energy, as well as Android 20 after absorbing Yamcha, Vegeta and Piccolo's energy. Obviously Android 20's boost would be larger than Android 19's.
Android 18 - 370,000,000
Android 17 - 390,000,000
Android 16 - 540,000,000
Android 17 is stated to be stronger than Android 18. They are also much stronger than Vegeta and the others.
Android 16 would be even more stronger than the other 2, as stated in the series.
Goku - 4,900,000
SSJ Goku - 245,000,000
Sick Goku - 3,600,000
SSJ Sick Goku - 180,000,000
Goku's power level has certainly increased. But not that big on an increase, since he was training with Gohan and Piccolo.
Sick Goku is stated to be above Yadrat Goku. So I decided to put him just a bit above in this case.
Vegeta - 5,000,000
SSJ Vegeta - 250,000,000
Vegeta was stated by Piccolo and himself to be stronger than Goku. Although the difference is quite small. His boost through training would also be larger than Goku's.
Future Trunks - 4,200,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 210,000,000
Throughout the 3 months of his time, Trunks could have increased his power level, since he was paired up with Goku and Vegeta more than Piccolo. That means that he is stronger than Piccolo in power.
Weighted Piccolo - 157,500,000
Piccolo - 200,000,000
Piccolo with his weights is stronger than Android 19 and 20 pre-absorbtions since Piccolo faked his defeat against Android 20 in order to help Goku against Android 19.
However, after Android 20's absorbtions, Piccolo was in need to remove his weights. That seems to imply that Android 20 post-absorbtions was probably stronger than Weighted Piccolo. Piccolo would still defeat Android 20 easily, much like how Vegeta was defeating Kaioken X2 Goku, or Vegeta defeating Dodoria.
He has to be stronger than Sick Goku, who is stated to be above Yadrat Goku. That means that everyone who says Androids arc Piccolo is still weaker than Frieza or SSJ Goku from the Frieza arc are wrong.
Gohan - 4,000,000
After training with Piccolo and Goku for 3 years. Gohan's strenght should have increased a lot. Like 20 times his old strenght (200,000). He would surpass his father when he was fighting Frieza, but would still be behind the other Base Saiyans (with Trunks being the only one that is more close to his power).
Krillin - 1,200,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Krillin's case from 206 to 1,770. Like 8.5 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Krillin here. Only that instead of just 8.5, he would get 10 times stronger his old strenght, because of Guru's potential unlock. Also, considering Krillin has his potential unlocked from Guru, his gains on training would be very big in comparison to the other earthlings.
Krillin would be able to surpass Second Form Frieza, but would still be below Frieza Arc Piccolo.
Tien - 650,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Tien's case from 250 to 1,830. Like 7.32 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Tien here. His power would roughly be between 600,000 and 650,000. I decide to chose 650,000 for this one. His boost is not as high as Krillin's though.
Tien would be able to surpass First Form Frieza, but would still be below Second Form Frieza.
Yamcha - 300,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Yamcha's case from 177 to 1,480. Like 8.36 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Yamcha here. His power would be between 250,000 and 300,000. More close to 300,000 in my opinion. He would still be a bit less than Tien's 50%.
Yamcha would be able to surpass Frieza Arc Gohan, but would still be below Early Frieza Battle Vegeta, as well as First Form Frieza.
Chiaotzu - 100,000
Unfortunately for Chiaotzu. His power wouldn't be as big as the others (now I know why Tien didn't bring him to the battle field). During the Saiyan Arc, his power only got like 4 times stronger (from 150, my chosen number for him, to 610).
I decided to be a bit generous and put him 5 times stronger. At first I though he would be able to defeat Captain Ginyu, but it turns out he still wouldn't be able to do it, probably only if he relies on his special powers.[/spoiler]
Give all your thoughts. Cell Arc is next!
Mecha Frieza Arc:
[spoiler]Mecha Frieza - 150,000,000
Frieza stated that his power is greater than his previous 100% final form (120,000,000 of power). He also has some confidence in defeating SSJ Goku (150,000,000 of power). I decided to place him at the same power as Goku was, because Frieza also brought his father with him for help. Also I don't think Frieza completely surpassed that version of Goku.
King Cold - 100,000,000
Just a random number. But strong enough to act as assistance to his son against Goku.
King Cold's Soldiers - 1,000 to 2,000
Pretty much like Frieza's soldiers. Nothing important here.
Future Trunks - 3,400,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 170,000,000
Future Trunks is obviously stronger than Mecha Frieza and Namek Saga Goku. Despite the fact that Gohan mentioned the ki was similar to his dad, it could still be just because they are both SSJ's, and obviously they would feel like the same.
Trunks is strong enough to handle Mecha Frieza with ease. Frieza may not be at 100%. But still it's possible he was, because let's remember how the fight between Vegeta and Goku (Kaioken X2) went, they were 18K and 16K respectively, and Vegeta seems to dominate Goku with ease.
Goku - 3,500,000
SSJ Goku - 175,000,000
Goku is stated to be stronger than Future Trunks, since the latter was amazed by his power, and was even stronger than how he expected him to be, that's stated in the manga clearly. He also manages to deflect Trunks's sword with a finger, even though they were holding back, it was still amazing for Trunks. This Goku would also be able to manhadle Mecha Frieza and Trunks with full ease.
Vegeta - 2,800,000
I just made his gains in training similar to Goku's. My number for Vegeta in the Frieza arc was 2,400,000 (for those who don't remember my Frieza arc power level list). He would still probably be higher, possibly at the same power that Goku had back in the Frieza arc (3,000,000).
Piccolo - 2,700,000
I think Piccolo's fusion with Nail probably is what made Piccolo's boosts higher during this part of the series. I don't believe he surpassed Vegeta, but I would say they were quite close. Goku even mentioned Piccolo as first guess of who defeated Frieza. Even though that's not really evidence for me that he surpasses Vegeta, it's still something we should consider.
Gohan - 200,000
I don't think his power changed from his Frieza arc self. He didn't really train that much, since he was more busy with studies. But who knows if he did...? Anyways, it only passed 2 years, so I don't think that's that much for Gohan to have his power declining as much as how he was during the 7 year gap between the Cell and Buu arcs.
Krillin - 120,000
I will admit, I am a Tien > Krillin believer, and I don't want to start one of those silly "Krillin vs Tien" debates since I do want to keep with my own opinion on the matter. HOWEVER, I WILL agree that Krillin was stronger than Tien at the time of this part of the series, as well as the Cell arc. However, I'm still not convinced with the Buu arc, as well as with Dragon Ball Super where I just can't accept that Krillin is stronger than Tien. Probably by the Buu arc maybe (I'm still with doubts though), but definitely not Super, since a lot of time has already happened, and Tien always trains. Krillin's power would also be declining by the time too.
But we should better focus on here. Krillin by the time he died would have 75,000 (since I mentioned in my Frieza arc power level list that I won't accept that number for the first part of the Frieza fight). Later as time went on Earth, Krillin would still be training. And considering his gains would be bigger because of his unlock potential by Guru, he would reach this number of 120,000 (a bit less than the 1.8 multiplier that I give him).
Tenshinhan - 85,000
As I said above, Tien has to be weaker than Krillin here. The reason I put Tien at 85,000 is simple. Considering Goku recieved like a 20 times increase from his training with King Kai. Tien, having Yamcha and Chiaotzu (although the latter is too weak) as partners, as well as how he promised to make better methods of training, aas well as the fact that he trained nearly doubling the days of Goku. I would say his power increased 40 times his old strenght (1,830). That would leave him to 73,200. After a year of training, his power could've increased further more, leaving him to 85,000.
Yamcha - 34,000
This would be a similar case to Tien. This time, since he trained with a stronger Tien at King Kai's planet, and nearly the same amount of Goku's days (136 to 158, not that close but still), he would be reaching 20 times stronger his old strenght (1,480). Leaving him to nearly 30,000. His power would later be at 34,000 since I do think that he still trained, but with gains less than the others.
Chiaotzu - 21,000
Unlike Tien and Yamcha, here Chiaotzu would have less gains in training with King Kai. Instead of a 20 times stronger, he would be 15 times stronger, the reason is because it has been proved that Chiaotzu's gains, no matter how much he trains, are so small. Look his number in the saiyan arc (610), is too low and his difference in gap with Yamcha (the second weakest) has gotten wider. Specially since it's somewhat stated that in the 23rd Budokai that Chiaotzu was already equal, if not above Roshi (who is 139). My personal number I have him for the Raditz arc is 150. A difference of x1.18 in comparison to Yamcha. Later in the saiyan arc, there was a difference in a gap that is more than 2 times. That means that Chiaotzu improved much less than the others.
The same would apply here. His power level would multiply by 15 instead of 20. 30 times (since he trained 260 days like Tien) his old strenght (610) is 18,300. Add a year more of training and would probably reach 21,000.
And that's all. Tell me what you think about these power levels if you agree or disagree. Up next is the Androids Arc.[/spoiler]
Androids Arc:
[spoiler]Android 19 - 140,000,000
Android 19 Post Absorbtion - 160,000,000
Android 20 - 150,000,000
Android 20 Post Absorbtion - 180,000,000
I have the Androids stronger than Frieza, and around Frieza Arc SSJ Goku. The reason is because Android 19 was able to stand up against a Sick Goku who was stronger than his Yadrat self, who was stronger than his Frieza arc self.
Android 19 was stated to be weaker than Android 20 before each one's absorptions.
I also have the levels for Android 19 after absorbing Goku's energy, as well as Android 20 after absorbing Yamcha, Vegeta and Piccolo's energy. Obviously Android 20's boost would be larger than Android 19's.
Android 18 - 370,000,000
Android 17 - 390,000,000
Android 16 - 540,000,000
Android 17 is stated to be stronger than Android 18. They are also much stronger than Vegeta and the others.
Android 16 would be even more stronger than the other 2, as stated in the series.
Goku - 4,900,000
SSJ Goku - 245,000,000
Sick Goku - 3,600,000
SSJ Sick Goku - 180,000,000
Goku's power level has certainly increased. But not that big on an increase, since he was training with Gohan and Piccolo.
Sick Goku is stated to be above Yadrat Goku. So I decided to put him just a bit above in this case.
Vegeta - 5,000,000
SSJ Vegeta - 250,000,000
Vegeta was stated by Piccolo and himself to be stronger than Goku. Although the difference is quite small. His boost through training would also be larger than Goku's.
Future Trunks - 4,200,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 210,000,000
Throughout the 3 months of his time, Trunks could have increased his power level, since he was paired up with Goku and Vegeta more than Piccolo. That means that he is stronger than Piccolo in power.
Weighted Piccolo - 157,500,000
Piccolo - 200,000,000
Piccolo with his weights is stronger than Android 19 and 20 pre-absorbtions since Piccolo faked his defeat against Android 20 in order to help Goku against Android 19.
However, after Android 20's absorbtions, Piccolo was in need to remove his weights. That seems to imply that Android 20 post-absorbtions was probably stronger than Weighted Piccolo. Piccolo would still defeat Android 20 easily, much like how Vegeta was defeating Kaioken X2 Goku, or Vegeta defeating Dodoria.
He has to be stronger than Sick Goku, who is stated to be above Yadrat Goku. That means that everyone who says Androids arc Piccolo is still weaker than Frieza or SSJ Goku from the Frieza arc are wrong.
Gohan - 4,000,000
After training with Piccolo and Goku for 3 years. Gohan's strenght should have increased a lot. Like 20 times his old strenght (200,000). He would surpass his father when he was fighting Frieza, but would still be behind the other Base Saiyans (with Trunks being the only one that is more close to his power).
Krillin - 1,200,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Krillin's case from 206 to 1,770. Like 8.5 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Krillin here. Only that instead of just 8.5, he would get 10 times stronger his old strenght, because of Guru's potential unlock. Also, considering Krillin has his potential unlocked from Guru, his gains on training would be very big in comparison to the other earthlings.
Krillin would be able to surpass Second Form Frieza, but would still be below Frieza Arc Piccolo.
Tien - 650,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Tien's case from 250 to 1,830. Like 7.32 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Tien here. His power would roughly be between 600,000 and 650,000. I decide to chose 650,000 for this one. His boost is not as high as Krillin's though.
Tien would be able to surpass First Form Frieza, but would still be below Second Form Frieza.
Yamcha - 300,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Yamcha's case from 177 to 1,480. Like 8.36 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Yamcha here. His power would be between 250,000 and 300,000. More close to 300,000 in my opinion. He would still be a bit less than Tien's 50%.
Yamcha would be able to surpass Frieza Arc Gohan, but would still be below Early Frieza Battle Vegeta, as well as First Form Frieza.
Chiaotzu - 100,000
Unfortunately for Chiaotzu. His power wouldn't be as big as the others (now I know why Tien didn't bring him to the battle field). During the Saiyan Arc, his power only got like 4 times stronger (from 150, my chosen number for him, to 610).
I decided to be a bit generous and put him 5 times stronger. At first I though he would be able to defeat Captain Ginyu, but it turns out he still wouldn't be able to do it, probably only if he relies on his special powers.[/spoiler]
Give all your thoughts. Cell Arc is next!
- ZombieVito
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Why? It's a valid comparison.emperior wrote: I don't think it makes sense to compare Piccolo and Goku's power from that scene. About Frost's power level, he is a little weaker than 100% Freezer from Namek on my list, what's wrong with that?
Base Future Trunks > Super Saiyan Kid Trunks. This makes Goku's normal base way higher than Namek Freeza.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I like your list here,but I wouldn't put chiaotzu in that level,I would put him at 35,000,or at least 26k,I'm looking forward to see the cell arc listdragonball0900 wrote:Hey guys. Following from my Mecha Frieza arc Power Level List, here is my Androids Arc Power Level List. With information, reasoning, statements, explanations. Trying to make sense of what these power levels can be able to fit with what we see in the series and in the guides. Here is also my Mecha Frieza arc list for everyone to have an idea of how they were in relation to my Androids arc list:
Mecha Frieza Arc:
[spoiler]Mecha Frieza - 150,000,000
Frieza stated that his power is greater than his previous 100% final form (120,000,000 of power). He also has some confidence in defeating SSJ Goku (150,000,000 of power). I decided to place him at the same power as Goku was, because Frieza also brought his father with him for help. Also I don't think Frieza completely surpassed that version of Goku.
King Cold - 100,000,000
Just a random number. But strong enough to act as assistance to his son against Goku.
King Cold's Soldiers - 1,000 to 2,000
Pretty much like Frieza's soldiers. Nothing important here.
Future Trunks - 3,400,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 170,000,000
Future Trunks is obviously stronger than Mecha Frieza and Namek Saga Goku. Despite the fact that Gohan mentioned the ki was similar to his dad, it could still be just because they are both SSJ's, and obviously they would feel like the same.
Trunks is strong enough to handle Mecha Frieza with ease. Frieza may not be at 100%. But still it's possible he was, because let's remember how the fight between Vegeta and Goku (Kaioken X2) went, they were 18K and 16K respectively, and Vegeta seems to dominate Goku with ease.
Goku - 3,500,000
SSJ Goku - 175,000,000
Goku is stated to be stronger than Future Trunks, since the latter was amazed by his power, and was even stronger than how he expected him to be, that's stated in the manga clearly. He also manages to deflect Trunks's sword with a finger, even though they were holding back, it was still amazing for Trunks. This Goku would also be able to manhadle Mecha Frieza and Trunks with full ease.
Vegeta - 2,800,000
I just made his gains in training similar to Goku's. My number for Vegeta in the Frieza arc was 2,400,000 (for those who don't remember my Frieza arc power level list). He would still probably be higher, possibly at the same power that Goku had back in the Frieza arc (3,000,000).
Piccolo - 2,700,000
I think Piccolo's fusion with Nail probably is what made Piccolo's boosts higher during this part of the series. I don't believe he surpassed Vegeta, but I would say they were quite close. Goku even mentioned Piccolo as first guess of who defeated Frieza. Even though that's not really evidence for me that he surpasses Vegeta, it's still something we should consider.
Gohan - 200,000
I don't think his power changed from his Frieza arc self. He didn't really train that much, since he was more busy with studies. But who knows if he did...? Anyways, it only passed 2 years, so I don't think that's that much for Gohan to have his power declining as much as how he was during the 7 year gap between the Cell and Buu arcs.
Krillin - 120,000
I will admit, I am a Tien > Krillin believer, and I don't want to start one of those silly "Krillin vs Tien" debates since I do want to keep with my own opinion on the matter. HOWEVER, I WILL agree that Krillin was stronger than Tien at the time of this part of the series, as well as the Cell arc. However, I'm still not convinced with the Buu arc, as well as with Dragon Ball Super where I just can't accept that Krillin is stronger than Tien. Probably by the Buu arc maybe (I'm still with doubts though), but definitely not Super, since a lot of time has already happened, and Tien always trains. Krillin's power would also be declining by the time too.
But we should better focus on here. Krillin by the time he died would have 75,000 (since I mentioned in my Frieza arc power level list that I won't accept that number for the first part of the Frieza fight). Later as time went on Earth, Krillin would still be training. And considering his gains would be bigger because of his unlock potential by Guru, he would reach this number of 120,000 (a bit less than the 1.8 multiplier that I give him).
Tenshinhan - 85,000
As I said above, Tien has to be weaker than Krillin here. The reason I put Tien at 85,000 is simple. Considering Goku recieved like a 20 times increase from his training with King Kai. Tien, having Yamcha and Chiaotzu (although the latter is too weak) as partners, as well as how he promised to make better methods of training, aas well as the fact that he trained nearly doubling the days of Goku. I would say his power increased 40 times his old strenght (1,830). That would leave him to 73,200. After a year of training, his power could've increased further more, leaving him to 85,000.
Yamcha - 34,000
This would be a similar case to Tien. This time, since he trained with a stronger Tien at King Kai's planet, and nearly the same amount of Goku's days (136 to 158, not that close but still), he would be reaching 20 times stronger his old strenght (1,480). Leaving him to nearly 30,000. His power would later be at 34,000 since I do think that he still trained, but with gains less than the others.
Chiaotzu - 21,000
Unlike Tien and Yamcha, here Chiaotzu would have less gains in training with King Kai. Instead of a 20 times stronger, he would be 15 times stronger, the reason is because it has been proved that Chiaotzu's gains, no matter how much he trains, are so small. Look his number in the saiyan arc (610), is too low and his difference in gap with Yamcha (the second weakest) has gotten wider. Specially since it's somewhat stated that in the 23rd Budokai that Chiaotzu was already equal, if not above Roshi (who is 139). My personal number I have him for the Raditz arc is 150. A difference of x1.18 in comparison to Yamcha. Later in the saiyan arc, there was a difference in a gap that is more than 2 times. That means that Chiaotzu improved much less than the others.
The same would apply here. His power level would multiply by 15 instead of 20. 30 times (since he trained 260 days like Tien) his old strenght (610) is 18,300. Add a year more of training and would probably reach 21,000.
And that's all. Tell me what you think about these power levels if you agree or disagree. Up next is the Androids Arc.[/spoiler]
Androids Arc:
[spoiler]Android 19 - 140,000,000
Android 19 Post Absorbtion - 160,000,000
Android 20 - 150,000,000
Android 20 Post Absorbtion - 180,000,000
I have the Androids stronger than Frieza, and around Frieza Arc SSJ Goku. The reason is because Android 19 was able to stand up against a Sick Goku who was stronger than his Yadrat self, who was stronger than his Frieza arc self.
Android 19 was stated to be weaker than Android 20 before each one's absorptions.
I also have the levels for Android 19 after absorbing Goku's energy, as well as Android 20 after absorbing Yamcha, Vegeta and Piccolo's energy. Obviously Android 20's boost would be larger than Android 19's.
Android 18 - 370,000,000
Android 17 - 390,000,000
Android 16 - 540,000,000
Android 17 is stated to be stronger than Android 18. They are also much stronger than Vegeta and the others.
Android 16 would be even more stronger than the other 2, as stated in the series.
Goku - 4,900,000
SSJ Goku - 245,000,000
Sick Goku - 3,600,000
SSJ Sick Goku - 180,000,000
Goku's power level has certainly increased. But not that big on an increase, since he was training with Gohan and Piccolo.
Sick Goku is stated to be above Yadrat Goku. So I decided to put him just a bit above in this case.
Vegeta - 5,000,000
SSJ Vegeta - 250,000,000
Vegeta was stated by Piccolo and himself to be stronger than Goku. Although the difference is quite small. His boost through training would also be larger than Goku's.
Future Trunks - 4,200,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 210,000,000
Throughout the 3 months of his time, Trunks could have increased his power level, since he was paired up with Goku and Vegeta more than Piccolo. That means that he is stronger than Piccolo in power.
Weighted Piccolo - 157,500,000
Piccolo - 200,000,000
Piccolo with his weights is stronger than Android 19 and 20 pre-absorbtions since Piccolo faked his defeat against Android 20 in order to help Goku against Android 19.
However, after Android 20's absorbtions, Piccolo was in need to remove his weights. That seems to imply that Android 20 post-absorbtions was probably stronger than Weighted Piccolo. Piccolo would still defeat Android 20 easily, much like how Vegeta was defeating Kaioken X2 Goku, or Vegeta defeating Dodoria.
He has to be stronger than Sick Goku, who is stated to be above Yadrat Goku. That means that everyone who says Androids arc Piccolo is still weaker than Frieza or SSJ Goku from the Frieza arc are wrong.
Gohan - 4,000,000
After training with Piccolo and Goku for 3 years. Gohan's strenght should have increased a lot. Like 20 times his old strenght (200,000). He would surpass his father when he was fighting Frieza, but would still be behind the other Base Saiyans (with Trunks being the only one that is more close to his power).
Krillin - 1,200,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Krillin's case from 206 to 1,770. Like 8.5 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Krillin here. Only that instead of just 8.5, he would get 10 times stronger his old strenght, because of Guru's potential unlock. Also, considering Krillin has his potential unlocked from Guru, his gains on training would be very big in comparison to the other earthlings.
Krillin would be able to surpass Second Form Frieza, but would still be below Frieza Arc Piccolo.
Tien - 650,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Tien's case from 250 to 1,830. Like 7.32 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Tien here. His power would roughly be between 600,000 and 650,000. I decide to chose 650,000 for this one. His boost is not as high as Krillin's though.
Tien would be able to surpass First Form Frieza, but would still be below Second Form Frieza.
Yamcha - 300,000
The humans managed to increase their strenght so great in one year during the Saiyan Arc. In Yamcha's case from 177 to 1,480. Like 8.36 times his old strenght. In order to keep the humans a bit more relevant, I decided to use that same multiplier for Yamcha here. His power would be between 250,000 and 300,000. More close to 300,000 in my opinion. He would still be a bit less than Tien's 50%.
Yamcha would be able to surpass Frieza Arc Gohan, but would still be below Early Frieza Battle Vegeta, as well as First Form Frieza.
Chiaotzu - 100,000
Unfortunately for Chiaotzu. His power wouldn't be as big as the others (now I know why Tien didn't bring him to the battle field). During the Saiyan Arc, his power only got like 4 times stronger (from 150, my chosen number for him, to 610).
I decided to be a bit generous and put him 5 times stronger. At first I though he would be able to defeat Captain Ginyu, but it turns out he still wouldn't be able to do it, probably only if he relies on his special powers.[/spoiler]
Give all your thoughts. Cell Arc is next!
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- TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Here's my take on the Androids/Cell Arcs.
Mecha Freeza:
Androids:
Cell:
Cell Games:
Mecha Freeza:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Do you guys agree with this line?
SSJ3 Gogeta > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gogeta > Super Boo > Super Gogeta > Super Janemba > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku
SSJ3 Gogeta > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gogeta > Super Boo > Super Gogeta > Super Janemba > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku
乃亜
Dragon Ball: The Others Discussion Thread
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Dragon Ball: The Others Discussion Thread
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
- TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
No. I go with this:Noah wrote:Do you guys agree with this line?
SSJ3 Gogeta > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gogeta > Super Boo > Super Gogeta > Super Janemba > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku
SSJ3 Gogeta > SSJ2 Gogeta > SSJ3 Gotenks = Super Buu > SSJ Gogeta > Super Janemba > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks
- DanielSSJ
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Nope. For one thing, I personally have Super Saiyan Gotenks on the same level as Fat Boo, significantly below SS3 Goku. Second, since I don't think that either fusion method has a static power boost and that Goku and Vegeta are an exceptionally potent combination, based on some of Elder Kaioshin's dialogue, Super Gogeta isn't too far behind Vegetto in power, and is probably at least a match for Ultimate Gohan. My tier list would look more like this:Noah wrote:Do you guys agree with this line?
SSJ3 Gogeta > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gogeta > Super Boo > Super Gogeta > Super Janemba > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku
1. SS3 Gogeta
2. SS2 Gogeta
3. SS Gogeta
4. SS3 Gotenks and Evil Boo and Evil Janemba
6. SS3 Goku
7. SS Gotenks
My Official Unofficial Battle Power list (in-progress: updated 11/8/2022—FREEZA ARC COMPLETED)
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Is Gogeta really over 10x stronger than Gotenks, though?DanielSSJ wrote:Nope. For one thing, I personally have Super Saiyan Gotenks on the same level as Fat Boo, significantly below SS3 Goku. Second, since I don't think that either fusion method has a static power boost and that Goku and Vegeta are an exceptionally potent combination, based on some of Elder Kaioshin's dialogue, Super Gogeta isn't too far behind Vegetto in power, and is probably at least a match for Ultimate Gohan. My tier list would look more like this:Noah wrote:Do you guys agree with this line?
SSJ3 Gogeta > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gogeta > Super Boo > Super Gogeta > Super Janemba > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku
1. SS3 Gogeta
2. SS2 Gogeta
3. SS Gogeta
4. SS3 Gotenks and Evil Boo and Evil Janemba
6. SS3 Goku
7. SS Gotenks





