"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Can't say I am not impressed

Same. Toyotaro's artwork is simply and utterly awesome. Having it colored is just the cherry on top of the cake for me.

.....Are you guys saying you like this?? Is this real?

Misread with my first post. Yeah, that coloring is pretty mediocre. The pallet is ass-backwards from what Goku Black should be, it's too bubbly. Also, it looks over-saturated regardless, I may tinker with it and see if I can fix that.

Edit: Nope, it looks almost as bad.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[fadeddreams5]

This new chapter sounds terrible.

The colors of a SSJ transformation completely clash with what makes Goku Black Goku Black: the blackness. How are you gonna make him glow and shine like the sun?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

This new chapter sounds terrible.

The colors of a SSJ transformation completely clash with what makes Goku Black Goku Black: the blackness. How are you gonna make him glow and shine like the sun?

Easily. The contrast works just fine when you use the right pallet. Also, it works just fine if you apply Toriyama's SS hair colors to a black-suited Android Arc Vegeta. There are plenty of good B&W panels to try it with, too. Unfortunately, whoever did this coloring over-saturated and over-contrasted it.

[brett wheeler]

If black doesnt go ssr in the manga it kinda confirmed what v-jump said that rose was just goku blacks regular ssj. So I take that as toriyama wrote,"black turned ssj and vegeta goes blue and they fight" nothing more and tioe asked toriyama to design a new design for ssj goku black so it didnt look like a normal ssj was fighting off ssb, Thus toriyama designed rose for the anime only and toyataro used regular ssj. Seems pretty simple and toyataro isnt contradicting tariyama either just toriyama's design for the anime,but who knows its all up in the air at this point.

Toriyama actually wrote a note to the staff, in his original design for Black, specifying the color of his SS hair was supposed to be like that. So no, that idea and concept came from Toriyama.

On the other hand, we never saw a design of golden SS from Toriyama, so that's very likely a Toyotaro invention.

I know but thats the best excuse for toyataro I could make. Besides i'm not wrong with my remark of this confirming that ssr is just regular ssj and goku black is op stupid strong in the anime thats why it can compete with blue

[HeroR]

So it seems Toriyama mentioned that Black is supposed to have a normal SSJ form, why the hell did the anime miss the opportunity to show that.

Because Black in the anime is a no-nonsense villain. He may play with his food to a point, but he doesn't screw around often. You noticed that the moment he got Rose he almost never fights in his base form again. The only time he specifically messed around for a long period of time is against Goku, who he wanted to learn from so he took his time.

Still he could have went SSJ against his first fight with Goku, or against Trunks at the beggining seeing as Trunks was supposed to be higher than current SSJ2 Goku, why have him fight in base and instantly go rose, besides he was too strong in the anime that he basically took punches from SSJB Vegeta and shroved it off like nothing even able to deliver a kick that pushed Vegeta quite a distance, no matter where I look at it, its still odd. We even see him interested in fighting with Goku over and over so he could have had a chance to go SSJ first, like I said, odd. If Toei wanted to they coulda found a way for him to go SSJ since they even made his base freaking OP.

His base was more than enough to wreck Trunks repeatedly and he purposely took his time with Goku. When Goku asked I'm to go all out, he said no, I'm going to take it slow. He went to Rose because Vegeta was using his full power, so he did the same. He wasn't going to fool around like Goku. Even then, he let Vegeta get free hits on him. And when wanted to fight Goku over again to get stronger, not to get Super Saiyan.

[SansrivaaL]

His base was more than enough to wreck Trunks repeatedly and he purposely took his time with Goku. When Goku asked I'm to go all out, he said no, I'm going to take it slow. He went to Rose because Vegeta was using his full power, so he did the same. He wasn't going to fool around like Goku. Even then, he let Vegeta get free hits on him. And when wanted to fight Goku over again to get stronger, not to get Super Saiyan.

You're not getting me, if Toriyama had planned for Black to have a normal SSJ form then Toei should have showed that, there were tons of opportunities for Black to show his SSJ forms one of which where you even said he was taking his time fighting against Goku, and no he went rose against Vegeta to show off, he barely took damage against Vegeta's SSJB and even landed a clean hit, no matter where I look at it he coulda took out Vegeta even in base, thats the big power difference from them so I see no reason for him to go instantly SSJR, and if we're talking about how Black is a "no-nonsense villain" he wouldnt have made the same mistakes on letting Goku and Vegeta escape 2 fcking times and finished it as early as possible seeing as he was capable of doing it early on but kept on messing around and talking explaining their so called plan, so I disagree, Black is full of nonsense.

[HeroR]

His base was more than enough to wreck Trunks repeatedly and he purposely took his time with Goku. When Goku asked I'm to go all out, he said no, I'm going to take it slow. He went to Rose because Vegeta was using his full power, so he did the same. He wasn't going to fool around like Goku. Even then, he let Vegeta get free hits on him. And when wanted to fight Goku over again to get stronger, not to get Super Saiyan.

You're not getting me, if Toriyama had planned for Black to have a normal SSJ form then Toei should have showed that, there were tons of opportunities for Black to show his SSJ forms, and no he went rose against Vegeta to show off, he barely took damage against Vegeta's SSJB and even landed a clean hit, no matter where I look at it he coulda took out Vegeta even in base, thats the big power difference from them so I see no reason for him to go instantly into SSJR, and if we're talking about how Black is a "no-nonsense villain" he wouldnt have made the same mistakes on letting Goku and Vegeta escape 2 fcking times and finished it as early as possible seeing as he was capable of doing it early on but kept on messing around and talking explaining their so called plan, so I disagree, Black is full of nonsense.

All Toriyama put in his notes is that Black could become a regular Super Saiyan. He didn't even draw it unlike like Rose. And he went straight to Rose to finished Vegeta off quickly. He didn't play since as soon as Vegeta landed some hits on him, he stabbed him. He couldn't beat Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta in his base form since Vegeta was still clearly holding back, nor did he wanted to since he was pretty much done screwing with Vegeta.

The first time they escaped, he was blinded by tear gas. The second time, he tried to destroy the Time Machine with everyone in it and Trunks deflected the blast. He didn't let them get away at all. So he is no-nonsense. Goku and Vegeta would have died if it wasn't for their allies and Trunks suddenly getting a new Super Saiyan form.

[SansrivaaL]

His base was more than enough to wreck Trunks repeatedly and he purposely took his time with Goku. When Goku asked I'm to go all out, he said no, I'm going to take it slow. He went to Rose because Vegeta was using his full power, so he did the same. He wasn't going to fool around like Goku. Even then, he let Vegeta get free hits on him. And when wanted to fight Goku over again to get stronger, not to get Super Saiyan.

You're not getting me, if Toriyama had planned for Black to have a normal SSJ form then Toei should have showed that, there were tons of opportunities for Black to show his SSJ forms, and no he went rose against Vegeta to show off, he barely took damage against Vegeta's SSJB and even landed a clean hit, no matter where I look at it he coulda took out Vegeta even in base, thats the big power difference from them so I see no reason for him to go instantly into SSJR, and if we're talking about how Black is a "no-nonsense villain" he wouldnt have made the same mistakes on letting Goku and Vegeta escape 2 fcking times and finished it as early as possible seeing as he was capable of doing it early on but kept on messing around and talking explaining their so called plan, so I disagree, Black is full of nonsense.

All Toriyama put in his notes is that Black could become a regular Super Saiyan. He didn't even draw it unlike like Rose. And he went straight to Rose to finished Vegeta off quickly. He didn't play since as soon as Vegeta landed some hits on him, he stabbed him. He couldn't beat Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta in his base form since Vegeta was still clearly holding back, nor did he wanted to since he was pretty much done screwing with Vegeta.

The first time they escaped, he was blinded by tear gas. The second time, he tried to destroy the Time Machine with everyone in it and Trunks deflected the blast. He didn't let them get away at all. So he is no-nonsense. Goku and Vegeta would have died if it wasn't for their allies and Trunks suddenly getting a new Super Saiyan form.

I see no difference from that to his script in the RF, if he wrote it, it should happen, if it was possible they should have showed it like how the manga showed it, he didnt need to draw Black's SSJ since its just Goku's SSJ form, whats different was the rose form since its a recolor. See thats my point, he was screwing around, so why not go SSJ at that time? there were tons of opportunities missed for his SSJ.

Still doesnt deny the fact that he talks a lot and explains a lot, thats still full of nonsense with his BS I'm beautiful and even going to the point of pissing off Goku telling him the story of how he took his body, a no-nonsense villain is you make sure your prey is dead not play/screw around with it and tell it stories and of how beautiful you are and how God's should be.

[Freeza9000]

Still doesnt deny the fact that he talks a lot and explains a lot, thats still full of nonsense with his BS I'm beautiful and even going to the point of pissing off Goku telling him the story of how he took his body, a no-nonsense villain is you make sure your prey is dead not play/screw around with it and tell it stories and of how beautiful you are and how God's should be.

And Black was stabbing Goku through the torso while telling the story, making sure to kill him. So he wasn't really screwing around there. Only times I recall him screwing around was when in EP 64 where Black said he'd fight when Goku & Vegeta get more powerful through anger over the deaths of Trunks, Mai and Bulma at the hands of Future Zamasu.

[HeroR]

I see no difference from that to his script in the RF, if he wrote it, it should happen, if it was possible they should have showed it like how the manga showed it, he didnt need to draw Black's SSJ since its just Goku's SSJ form, whats different was the rose form since its a recolor. See thats my point, he was screwing around, so why not go SSJ at that time? there were tons of opportunities missed for his SSJ.

Still doesnt deny the fact that he talks a lot and explains a lot, thats still full of nonsense with his BS I'm beautiful and even going to the point of pissing off Goku telling him the story of how he took his body, a no-nonsense villain is you make sure your prey is dead not play/screw around with it and tell it stories and of how beautiful you are and how God's should be.

The different is that Toriyama wrote the entire script of Resurrection 'F'. All Toriyama did here was put a side note next to Super Saiyan Rose that Black can use regular Super Saiyan. It wasn't even a story note, just a btw. And by that logic he didn't need to draw Rose. He could have just wrote Super Saiyan with pink hair. There is also a different in how Black's hair is drawn as a Super Saiyan Rose, which Toriyama specifically notes.

He only talked and explained a lot in Episode 61, once Goku figured out most of his plan, and the 'I'm beautiful' line came once in Episode 56 before he stabbed Vegeta. Before then, he didn't say jack about himself other than how this body wasn't his and when Goku asked about it, he kept his mouth close. Even after the Episode 61, he didn't talk all that much, nor gave any god speeches. Also, it was Future Zamasu who brought up Goku's family, prompting Black to tell him, and even then, Black stabbed Goku through a building during the explanation.

[alakazam^]

Maybe Toei didn't feel Black going Super Saiyajin would mesh well with the presence he already had. Having Goku's body, going Super Saiyajin was a given so they probably just focused on Rose because that was the actual new thing for the arc.

[HeroR]

Maybe Toei didn't feel Black going Super Saiyajin would mesh well with the presence he already had. Having Goku's body, going Super Saiyajin was a given so they probably just focused on Rose because that was the actual new thing for the arc.

They probably didn't think it was a big deal since it was literally a side note. What I find interesting that they didn't used it despite the toy lines that could make with just recoloring Black's hair. Honestly, this shows me that despite some think the writers at Toei will put story ahead of toys. That or they decided to let the manga use Super Saiyan to be different from the anime. Although, that literally had to be plan months ahead of time.

[SansrivaaL]

I see no difference from that to his script in the RF, if he wrote it, it should happen, if it was possible they should have showed it like how the manga showed it, he didnt need to draw Black's SSJ since its just Goku's SSJ form, whats different was the rose form since its a recolor. See thats my point, he was screwing around, so why not go SSJ at that time? there were tons of opportunities missed for his SSJ.

Still doesnt deny the fact that he talks a lot and explains a lot, thats still full of nonsense with his BS I'm beautiful and even going to the point of pissing off Goku telling him the story of how he took his body, a no-nonsense villain is you make sure your prey is dead not play/screw around with it and tell it stories and of how beautiful you are and how God's should be.

The different is that Toriyama wrote the entire script of Resurrection 'F'. All Toriyama did here was put a side note next to Super Saiyan Rose that Black can use regular Super Saiyan. It wasn't even a story note, just a btw. And by that logic he didn't need to draw Rose. He could have just wrote Super Saiyan with pink hair. There is also a different in how Black's hair is drawn as a Super Saiyan Rose, which Toriyama specifically notes.

He only talked and explained a lot in Episode 61, once Goku figured out most of his plan, and the 'I'm beautiful' line came once in Episode 56 before he stabbed Vegeta. Before then, he didn't say jack about himself other than how this body wasn't his and when Goku asked about it, he kept his mouth close. Even after the Episode 61, he didn't talk all that much, nor gave any god speeches. Also, it was Future Zamasu who brought up Goku's family, prompting Black to tell him, and even then, Black stabbed Goku through a building during the explanation.

Rose is still a different form unique to himself so he needed to draw it to show that he has this weird ahoge, naturally if he goes SSJ Toei can imagine what it would look like already.
He was definitely taking his sweet time, another example is instead of looking for Trunks he and Zamasu returned to their hut and had a talk while drinking, he could have stabbed Goku straight in the heart or his head hell even the eyes if he wanted him dead but no, it had to be in the part where Goku would have still been able to kick both their ass, and the biggest nonsense he pulled was they knew fusing would give them a massive powerboost, so why keep it until Zamasu got scared as hell from the mafuba? this shows that he screwed around for the whole time they were seperated.

Still doesnt deny the fact that he talks a lot and explains a lot, thats still full of nonsense with his BS I'm beautiful and even going to the point of pissing off Goku telling him the story of how he took his body, a no-nonsense villain is you make sure your prey is dead not play/screw around with it and tell it stories and of how beautiful you are and how God's should be.

And Black was stabbing Goku through the torso while telling the story, making sure to kill him. So he wasn't really screwing around there. Only times I recall him screwing around was when in EP 64 where Black said he'd fight when Goku & Vegeta get more powerful through anger over the deaths of Trunks, Mai and Bulma at the hands of Future Zamasu.

Thats the point, there were parts that Black was screwing around with them and no I dont think Black was making sure that Goku would die from that stab since Goku was able to kick both their asses after the story telling.

[HeroR]

Rose is still a different form unique to himself so he needed to draw it to show that he has this weird ahoge, naturally if he goes SSJ Toei can imagine what it would look like already.
He was definitely taking his sweet time, another example is instead of looking for Trunks he and Zamasu returned to their hut and had a talk while drinking, he could have stabbed Goku straight in the heart or his head hell even the eyes if he wanted him dead but no, it had to be in the part where Goku would have still been able to kick both their ass, and the biggest nonsense he pulled was they knew fusing would give them a massive powerboost, so why keep it until Zamasu got scared as hell from the mafuba? this shows that he screwed around for the whole time they were seperated.

Still doesnt deny the fact that he talks a lot and explains a lot, thats still full of nonsense with his BS I'm beautiful and even going to the point of pissing off Goku telling him the story of how he took his body, a no-nonsense villain is you make sure your prey is dead not play/screw around with it and tell it stories and of how beautiful you are and how God's should be.

And Black was stabbing Goku through the torso while telling the story, making sure to kill him. So he wasn't really screwing around there. Only times I recall him screwing around was when in EP 64 where Black said he'd fight when Goku & Vegeta get more powerful through anger over the deaths of Trunks, Mai and Bulma at the hands of Future Zamasu.

Thats the point, there were parts that Black was screwing around with them and no I dont think Black was making sure that Goku would die from that stab since Goku was able to kick both their asses after the story telling.

Toriyama literally could have just drew Super Saiyan Black and wrote a note that said Super Saiyan Rose has pink hair, since it's literally a color change.

All the one time he left Goku alone was after he impaled him several times and blew him up. Goku was so injured that he couldn't move. He was out of the fight and Black could kill him at his leisure and would have if Goku didn't retreat. We also never saw how Trunks escaped Black and Future Zamasu. Black was surprised and amused that Trunks was still alive. We also know why they didn't fuse. They both wanted Black to become as powerful as possible before fusing because Merged Zamasu would be an immortal that may hamper his growth. That's why Black didn't want immorality for himself.

Goku beat Black up, he got stronger from it and thanked Goku for getting angry. He then wasted Goku. So he got more powerful from that exchanged and then wiped the floor with Goku in a few hits.

[LowRyder2005]

But he changed BoG so Goku did not drop of SSG. We know 100% for fact that Toriyama intended Goku to revert back to SS for the conclusion of the fight. Yet Toyotaro saw fit to ignore that have Goku stay in SSG. If he's changed something as big as that who knows what else he's changed. I am now more than convinced that SSGSSKK was indeed in the outline.

Are you referring to BOG? That may be Toriyama not mentioning anything like that in the outline for the manga as well, nevertheless. I can more or less imagine something like "Goku fights Beerus and then loses Super Saiyan God. The end".
I seriously doubt he would ignore a plot point like Blue + Kaioken. Much more inclined to believe he just filled the blanks with something else.

Toriyama only wrote an outline for his new stuff, not the movies since he already wrote the original script.

The outline above was a possible rendition for Super.

[SansrivaaL]

Toriyama literally could have just drew Super Saiyan Black and wrote a note that said Super Saiyan Rose has pink hair, since it's literally a color change.

All the one time he left Goku alone was after he impaled him several times and blew him up. Goku was so injured that he couldn't move. He was out of the fight and Black could kill him at his leisure and would have if Goku didn't retreat. We also never saw how Trunks escaped Black and Future Zamasu. Black was surprised and amused that Trunks was still alive. We also know why they didn't fuse. They both wanted Black to become as powerful as possible before fusing because Merged Zamasu would be an immortal that may hamper his growth. That's why Black didn't want immorality for himself.

Goku beat Black up, he got stronger from it and thanked Goku for getting angry. He then wasted Goku. So he got more powerful from that exchanged and then wiped the floor with Goku in a few hits.

Why would he draw the SSJ form that every saiyan can do rather than the form unique to himself? even if it is still a simple recolor its still a form that Goku and the other saiyans have no access to, so obviously drawing that over the SSJ is a better choice and just put that he can also go SSJ, people already have an idea what it would look like based from our Goku.

With the fckng love that Toei gave Black I'm quite surprised they missed the opportunity to show his SSJ form, imo it would look cool on him. Still the point stands that he couldnt, meaning he was messing around, then again I'm tired of this and seems you wont even change your mind that Black is full of nonsense when he has done a lot of things that proves he's full of nonsense as I stated he kept on talking, explaining, taking his sweet time because he wanted to get stronger and get to know Goku a lot more, he could have 100% killed them if he stabbed them straight in the head or heart but he kept on missing despite the huge advantages he kept on having because of his weird zenkai's. They would have still owned and killed them faster if they fused already, but because he kept on messing around they were able to escape here and there, despite the advantage of an immortal ally and his infinite zenkai's, they would have been dead if he wanted to, theres a reason why he didnt, because he wanted to get more powerful, he felt he can become more powerful but decided to finish things off so they then merged.

Wiped the floor with Goku and still didnt kill him, get my point on why he's full of nonsense? if you still cant get my point I dont see us getting anywhere, I'm done.

[Abra kadabra]

Black stabbed vegeta in their first fight, leaving him near death when he could have killed him. He stabbed goku and took timeout to provoke him, then turned him into pincushion but didn't finish any of them off when he was stronger. He stabbed trunks leaving him near death instead of letting him self-destruct on an immortal zamasu. He also played clone games with Goku and geets when he was strong enough to kill them. Goku black wanted his opponents to get stronger, so that he can get stronger

[TheMikado]

So it seems Toriyama mentioned that Black is supposed to have a normal SSJ form, why the hell did the anime miss the opportunity to show that.

Because Black in the anime is a no-nonsense villain. He may play with his food to a point, but he doesn't screw around often. You noticed that the moment he got Rose he almost never fights in his base form again. The only time he specifically messed around for a long period of time is against Goku, who he wanted to learn from so he took his time.

Still he could have went SSJ against his first fight with Goku, or against Trunks at the beggining seeing as Trunks was supposed to be higher than current SSJ2 Goku, why have him fight in base and instantly go rose, besides he was too strong in the anime that he basically took punches from SSJB Vegeta and shroved it off like nothing even able to deliver a kick that pushed Vegeta quite a distance, no matter where I look at it, its still odd. We even see him interested in fighting with Goku over and over so he could have had a chance to go SSJ first, like I said, odd. If Toei wanted to they coulda found a way for him to go SSJ since they even made his base freaking OP.

Love how we an now making in universe excuses for the anime to ignore and go against Toriyamas wishes now... but let Toyotaro supposedly skip SSR (an assumption based on a few leaked panels and totally nonsensical overeaction with no evidence whatsoever) and all hell breaks loose... it like we aren't even pretending there's not a double standard anymore.

Edit* holy crap just read the rest of the cognitive dissonance and excuse/explanations in this thread. This is incredibly sad. Toriyama straight put a note that Black can go SSJ, Toei didn't do it for what ever reason. Period.
If they wanted to show him being a bad @ss and STILL RESPECT THE ORIGINAL CREATORS WRITING they could have showed Black power up to SSJ for a second and then further power up. Like how how would it be to add 3 seconds of animation. Jeez. I mean I guess we all think Toriyama just writes random notes like that for his own health and they don't have any meaning. If it wasn't for the manga we wouldn't have even realized that Black was supposed to be able to do this. I don't know how you can argue that NOT KNOWING an important character, especially the MAiN F-ing VILLAIN had additional forms but we didn't get to see them. Like just image Frieza going straight to his final form and never showing his other ones but being told he has more he's not going to show you, the same with Cell or even Buu. This IS NOT NORMAL for a Dragonball series. Skipping crap is just because, especially something like this is not how standard Dragonball animated series have played out. Stop acting like it normal for this franchise, it's not.

[Doctor.]

This new chapter sounds terrible.

The colors of a SSJ transformation completely clash with what makes Goku Black Goku Black: the blackness. How are you gonna make him glow and shine like the sun?

Missed opportunity to say Goku Black: THE DARKNESS

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[SansrivaaL]

Because Black in the anime is a no-nonsense villain. He may play with his food to a point, but he doesn't screw around often. You noticed that the moment he got Rose he almost never fights in his base form again. The only time he specifically messed around for a long period of time is against Goku, who he wanted to learn from so he took his time.

Still he could have went SSJ against his first fight with Goku, or against Trunks at the beggining seeing as Trunks was supposed to be higher than current SSJ2 Goku, why have him fight in base and instantly go rose, besides he was too strong in the anime that he basically took punches from SSJB Vegeta and shroved it off like nothing even able to deliver a kick that pushed Vegeta quite a distance, no matter where I look at it, its still odd. We even see him interested in fighting with Goku over and over so he could have had a chance to go SSJ first, like I said, odd. If Toei wanted to they coulda found a way for him to go SSJ since they even made his base freaking OP.

Love how we an now making in universe excuses for the anime to ignore and go against Toriyamas wishes now... but let Toyotaro supposedly skip SSR (an assumption based on a few leaked panels and totally nonsensical overeaction with no evidence whatsoever) and all hell breaks loose... it like we aren't even pretending there's not a double standard anymore.

Edit* holy crap just read the rest of the cognitive dissonance and excuse/explanations in this thread. This is incredibly sad. Toriyama straight put a note that Black can go SSJ, Toei didn't do it for what ever reason. Period.
If they wanted to show him being a bad @ss and STILL RESPECT THE ORIGINAL CREATORS WRITING they could have showed Black power up to SSJ for a second and then further power up. Like how how would it be to add 3 seconds of animation. Jeez. I mean I guess we all think Toriyama just writes random notes like that for his own health and they don't have any meaning. If it wasn't for the manga we wouldn't have even realized that Black was supposed to be able to do this. I don't know how you can argue that NOT KNOWING an important character, especially the MAiN F-ing VILLAIN had additional forms but we didn't get to see them. Like just image Frieza going straight to his final form and never showing his other ones but being told he has more he's not going to show you, the same with Cell or even Buu. This IS NOT NORMAL for a Dragonball series. Skipping crap is just because, especially something like this is not how standard Dragonball animated series have played out. Stop acting like it normal for this franchise, it's not.

And thats what basically what I was complaining about the whole time. They could have done it but choose not to, they say its because Black is a no-nonsense villain which Black proved to be full of nonsense in the whole arc. True if it wasnt for the manga a lot of us wouldnt have known that he could go SSJ, thats what riles me up, Toriyama wrote that he can go SSJ but Toei choose not to do it.