Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[TonyTheTiger]

Seriously. Assuming fusion is closer to multiplication than addition, if you fused 12 Farmers with shotguns you'd wind up with a guy over twice as powerful as 100% Freeza.

[Pantalones]

If you go by the literal "fusion means one character's power level times another character's power level" idea (which I don't... and even if you did, that wasn't really talking about the Namekian kind of fusion), then Nail fusing with just one of those random power-level-3000-ish Nameks would end up at 126,000,000.

Obviously that's not really how it works (Nail and Piccolo only got somewhat over one million, after all), but still... if just two Nameks fusing gives a huge boost like that (Nail+Piccolo = around 25 times stronger than Nail's full power, maybe a little more), then all of them fusing really should end up absurdly strong. And then if he's still not Buu-level yet after all the fusions, he can always train and get even stronger; Piccolo did so after both of his fusions, after all. Heck, if anything fusing made it easier for Piccolo to go even further than his training would get him before, rather than the "I'm so strong so now it's hard to get any stronger" effect (he goes from ~1,000,000 after fusing with Nail to "almost Super Saiyan-like" power when #19 and #20 show up, after only three years of just regular training with Goku and Gohan on Earth... no special planet or high gravity or anything.)

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah, regardless of the actual algorithm (it's Dragon Ball, after all, so there isn't one), if two Namekians fuse it will be the resulting Namekian that will benefit from the boost when a third one joins, not simply being three people joining. So there could be some vague sense of exponential growth with whatever constraints that prevent it from being actual multiplication.

[rereboy]

Not to mention that Gast could have kept improving himself ever since he was formed with training.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Namekian fusion clearly does a whole lot more than add the powers together.

I mean, Nail was 42,000 and Piccolo was likely not even that, yet united they were around a million.

[Titan]

After so many fusions Gast needs to be way above Ultimate Gohan and i'm being nice.

[Saiga]

So why was Piccolo and Kami's fusion so underwhelming, hmmm?

[Michsi]

So why was Piccolo and Kami's fusion so underwhelming

How was it underwhelming?

[Saiga]

So why was Piccolo and Kami's fusion so underwhelming

How was it underwhelming?

Because Piccolo was already rivaling a Super Saiyan, and only became even with the androids. The merger with Nail was a lot more effective.

[Michsi]

Because Piccolo was already rivaling a Super Saiyan, and only became even with the androids. The merger with Nail was a lot more effective.

The weakest of the androids wiped the ground with the strongest of them. Piccolo got taken down with 2 hits from 17. Being able to rival him afterwards is in no way a small feat.
And Kami mentioned that his biggest contribution was knowledge and wisdome, so there was probably a limit to how much actual power he could gain from Kami who was that much weaker than him. Nail on the other hand was a full fledged warrior.

Gast is the result of a fusion of every single member of the namekian race, warriors and dragon clan , with all that mystical magical weird power they have. Beings that can create gods that can grant pretty much any wish they want.

[Saiga]

Because Piccolo was already rivaling a Super Saiyan, and only became even with the androids. The merger with Nail was a lot more effective.

The weakest of the androids wiped the ground with the strongest of them. Piccolo got taken down with 2 hits from 17. Being able to rival him afterwards is in no way a small feat.
And Kami mentioned that his biggest contribution was knowledge and wisdome, so there was probably a limit to how much actual power he could gain from Kami who was that much weaker than him. Nail on the other hand was a full fledged warrior.

Gast is the result of a fusion of every single member of the namekian race, warriors and dragon clan , with all that mystical magical weird power they have. Beings that can create gods that can grant pretty much any wish they want.

Compared to the Piccolo/Nail fusion, the Piccolo/Kami fusion wasn't as powerful though. Which leaves me to believe the fusion has diminishing returns.

[Michsi]

Compared to the Piccolo/Nail fusion, the Piccolo/Kami fusion wasn't as powerful though

But how can you tell that? How can you tell that this fusion improved his power less than the the one with Nail?
What about it was underwhelming when Vegeta and everyone else comented how powerfull he had become? The androids weren't just a little stronger than the SSJs.

[CaBrPi]

Because Piccolo was already rivaling a Super Saiyan, and only became even with the androids. The merger with Nail was a lot more effective.

The weakest of the androids wiped the ground with the strongest of them. Piccolo got taken down with 2 hits from 17. Being able to rival him afterwards is in no way a small feat.
And Kami mentioned that his biggest contribution was knowledge and wisdome, so there was probably a limit to how much actual power he could gain from Kami who was that much weaker than him. Nail on the other hand was a full fledged warrior.

Gast is the result of a fusion of every single member of the namekian race, warriors and dragon clan , with all that mystical magical weird power they have. Beings that can create gods that can grant pretty much any wish they want.

Compared to the Piccolo/Nail fusion, the Piccolo/Kami fusion wasn't as powerful though. Which leaves me to believe the fusion has diminishing returns.

You seem to be forgetting that Kami didn't even have a power level of 400, considering he and Jr. fought pretty evenly at the 23rd Budokai, and Jr. continued to train for the next five years before Raditz showed up.

Being that Kami is, at most, one hundredth Nail's strength, it makes sense to say Piccolo wouldn't gain quite the boost from him as he did with Nail.

Wow, I messed that up. Fixed now.

[Saiga]

You seem to be forgetting that Kami didn't even have a power level of 400, considering he and Jr. fought pretty evenly at the 23rd Budokai, and Jr. continued to train for the next five years before Raditz showed up.

Being that Kami is, at most, one tenth Nail's strength, it makes sense to say Piccolo wouldn't gain quite the boost from him as he did with Nail.

I am aware of this. But Piccolo is in the millions, and his power can't be multiplied very much given the result. The argument for Gast being Boo level is that although the people fusing with Nail wouldn't be all that strong (3,000 for a few of them and than likely below 1,000 for the rest), Nail's strength would be multiplied with each fusion. But that doesn't seem to be the case with Piccolo's second fusion.

...if that makes sense, I'm tired and my paragraph looks super messy.

[Michsi]

We have to keep in mind that Nail told Piccolo that if he had fused with his other self, he would have been able to take down Freeza. Meaning that we can safely assume that if he had fused with Kami right then and there he would have been at least as strong as what he got with Nail.

In any case, the whole fusion idea is a tricky business, but hundreds of namakians fusing into one being and create a fighter stronger than Buu is believable imo.
It's vague enough to give the creators of this fan comic the freedom of choice in how strong they want it to be. Some people claim that "rivalry" is what made Vegetto as strong as he is, so if a symbolic notions like that influences the effectivness of a fusion , why shouldn't there be several others that could apply to a race of mystical beings sacrificing their identity to create a new being.

It doesn't seem at all like something I couldn't imagine happen in DB.

[CaBrPi]

You seem to be forgetting that Kami didn't even have a power level of 400, considering he and Jr. fought pretty evenly at the 23rd Budokai, and Jr. continued to train for the next five years before Raditz showed up.

Being that Kami is, at most, one tenth Nail's strength, it makes sense to say Piccolo wouldn't gain quite the boost from him as he did with Nail.

I am aware of this. But Piccolo is in the millions, and his power can't be multiplied very much given the result. The argument for Gast being Boo level is that although the people fusing with Nail wouldn't be all that strong (3,000 for a few of them and than likely below 1,000 for the rest), Nail's strength would be multiplied with each fusion. But that doesn't seem to be the case with Piccolo's second fusion.

...if that makes sense, I'm tired and my paragraph looks super messy.

That's not what people are arguing. What we're arguing is that Namekian fusion goes like this:

Namekian A + Namekian B < Fused Namekian

Not to mention your idea of "Diminishing Returns" isn't valid here, because we're only shown two fusions in the entire canon series. If there was a third, it gave Piccolo less power than Kami, and it was mentioned as being so, then you'd have a point. But in the series, fusion makes characters only as strong as the plot demands, and in the case of Piccolo and Kami, that happened to be stronger than Imperfect Cell originally, slightly stronger than #17, but weaker than Imperfect Cell later on and #16.

[Titan]

You seem to be forgetting that Kami didn't even have a power level of 400, considering he and Jr. fought pretty evenly at the 23rd Budokai, and Jr. continued to train for the next five years before Raditz showed up.

Being that Kami is, at most, one tenth Nail's strength, it makes sense to say Piccolo wouldn't gain quite the boost from him as he did with Nail.

I am aware of this. But Piccolo is in the millions, and his power can't be multiplied very much given the result. The argument for Gast being Boo level is that although the people fusing with Nail wouldn't be all that strong (3,000 for a few of them and than likely below 1,000 for the rest), Nail's strength would be multiplied with each fusion. But that doesn't seem to be the case with Piccolo's second fusion.

...if that makes sense, I'm tired and my paragraph looks super messy.

That's not what people are arguing. What we're arguing is that Namekian fusion goes like this:

Namekian A + Namekian B < Fused Namekian

Not to mention your idea of "Diminishing Returns" isn't valid here, because we're only shown two fusions in the entire canon series. If there was a third, it gave Piccolo less power than Kami, and it was mentioned as being so, then you'd have a point. But in the series, fusion makes characters only as strong as the plot demands, and in the case of Piccolo and Kami, that happened to be stronger than Imperfect Cell originally, slightly stronger than #17, but weaker than Imperfect Cell later on and #16.

I'll add that Saichoro could have released the potential of every single Namekian before the Great fusion which includes Saichoro himself and that can explain why Gast is so big.

Furthermore,it is arguable that Kami doubled Piccolo's power after the fusion.
So, just imagine what hundreds of Kamis around 400 BP could do.

Plus, we know that normal warriors are around 3000 and the boost with them would be even bigger.

Let's not forget that Saichoro is certainly way stronger than Nail and that would be a big factor by itself.

Piccolo also surpassed Imperfect Cell after his training in the hyperbolic chamber.
Gast certainly trained hard,after all, he is a lone warrior.

[Kingdom Heartless]

I have no qualms about most of the creative choices Salagir and co. have made... the thing about Dragon Ball, is that there is so much left vague, so many bogus power-ups, so much that is left up to the viewer, that most of the stuff in this fan-manga doesn't seem farfetched when taken in the context of the series.

Does everything here make a great deal of sense? No... but I guarantee you, every absurd thing here has likely had something equally absurd happen in the original series.

[Scarz]

I'm a little confused here by Cell's reaction. What's with the face palm? Cell Jr. landed the first hit!

[hleV]

Vargas are surprised as well. Maybe because the start of the match hasn't been announced yet.