Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[dbzfan7]

Still doesn't cover why Freeza for some reason is given ample time to sit around, but Boo the horrible monster who's caused more pain than Freeza himself, is let off the hook. Boo caused far more destruction, and yet he just gets instantly reincarnated without any punishment like this. Boo still knows what fear and pain is, so he could be subjected to the same thing.

This whole scenario is reminding me of all the justifications for the Boom hype back before Novemeber. Everyone made these similar excuses, until finally they saw for themselves just how shitty it was.

Based on what Toriyama has recently said, Buu was a special case. That sounds to me like he's so evil that he's way above Freeza, and got more intense and expedited punishment.

This is hardly comparable to Sonic Boom. Asspulls in a Dragon Ball story are common and don't significantly impact the several other good things about the work itself. Sonic Boom's various problems significantly dwarf any redeemable factors.

We are talking about Sonic Boom here, right?

More intense? He was stated to be reincarnated INSTANTLY because he was pure evil. Why would Freeza get priority to stick around this long when he should be reincarnated right away too? Unless that torture if it really is that, is worse. But why would Freeza get worse torture than the monster who was a much bigger bad guy than Freeza?

The comparison is not on ass pulls, it's on the fact of people dismissing issues and saying we either don't know or should just come up with our own theories to explain things for now. That is the same thing I was told while waiting for that news. Speculate and dismiss these issues as we don't know enough. Though really holding back all this information can be considered a bad thing if BOG was more generous to share it's news. Could mean they have a bigger surprise, or they don't want people to lose interest if they say something wrong.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was implied Enma-Daioh reincarnated Buu at the behest of Goku. Or am I mistaken?

You are correct. Still doesn't excuse how a request from Goku (Who by the way coulda put a stop to the entire Boo conflict before it even started), somehow absolves Boo from all of his sins and he's free to walk without any punishment.

[Chuquita]

http://ameblo.jp/dragonball2015/ has an update in script(?) form with Gokû dropping in on Bulma's blog and dropping plot-hints (that may or may not be addressed in the VJump comic). Could anyone with a higher level of translation knowledge take a look?

[fadeddreams5]

Still doesn't cover why Freeza for some reason is given ample time to sit around, but Boo the horrible monster who's caused more pain than Freeza himself, is let off the hook. Boo caused far more destruction, and yet he just gets instantly reincarnated without any punishment like this. Boo still knows what fear and pain is, so he could be subjected to the same thing.

There can be many reasons for this, honestly.

Kid Buu was not even self-aware. Sure, he loves causing pain and fear, but he sees it as a game. He's more like a mischievous child with incredibly destructive power than someone truly sadistic. He doesn't do it for any particular reason; he just really sees the world as his playground. His favorite game, unfortunately, is destroying planets and beating people up.

Frieza, on the other hand, is a self-aware sociopathic prick who instills fear to fill his sadistic fetishes and assert control over others. He is greedy, he is spoiled, he is power-hungry, and he is calculating. Frieza chose his path of evil. So, while every character possesses good and bad energies--based on their individual qualities--which allow them to do tasks such as ride the nimbus, Kid Buu is pretty much that bad energy embodied into a destructive monster. He didn't choose his path; he just IS that way. Purify that, and you have Uub.

[dbzfan7]

Still doesn't cover why Freeza for some reason is given ample time to sit around, but Boo the horrible monster who's caused more pain than Freeza himself, is let off the hook. Boo caused far more destruction, and yet he just gets instantly reincarnated without any punishment like this. Boo still knows what fear and pain is, so he could be subjected to the same thing.

There can be many reasons for this, honestly.

Kid Buu was not even self-aware. Sure, he loves causing pain and fear, but he sees it as a game. He's more like a mischievous child with incredibly destructive power than someone truly sadistic. He doesn't do it for any particular reason; he just really sees the world as his playground. His favorite game, unfortunately, is destroying planets and beating people up.

Freeza, on the other hand, is a self-aware sociopathic prick who instills fear to fill his sadistic fetishes and assert control over others. He is greedy, he is spoiled, he is power-hungry, and he is calculating. Freeza chose his path of evil. So, while every character possesses good and bad energies--based on their individual qualities--which allow them to do tasks such as ride the nimbus, Kid Buu is pretty much that bad energy embodied into a destructive monster. He didn't choose his path; he just IS that way. Purify that, and you have Uub.

That is not a good reason. Mischievous children should still very much be punished. He's a creature of literal PURE EVIL. That's not the same as someone who doesn't know any better. He was purified so fast because he's pure evil.

[Zephyr]

More intense? He was stated to be reincarnated INSTANTLY because he was pure evil. Why would Freeza get priority to stick around this long when he should be reincarnated right away too? Unless that torture if it really is that, is worse. But why would Freeza get worse torture than the monster who was a much bigger bad guy than Freeza?

The comparison is not on ass pulls, it's on the fact of people dismissing issues and saying we either don't know or should just come up with our own theories to explain things for now. That is the same thing I was told while waiting for that news. Speculate and dismiss these issues as we don't know enough. Though really holding back all this information can be considered a bad thing if BOG was more generous to share it's news. Could mean they have a bigger surprise, or they don't want people to lose interest if they say something wrong..

Yes, more intense. He was worse than Freeza, but was reincarnated sooner. The process surely would have been more intense. Multiple lifetimes worth of torture condensed into an instant? Perhaps some villains are given bodies back for torture, but Buu's too dangerous for that, so he was just done right away.

Again, the comparison is hardly equal. The issues here are of little consequence, as they tend to be in a Dragon Ball work. The issues with Sonic Boom were of great consequence, as those kinds of issues tend to be in a video game. I'm filling in gaps that I don't expect the film to. They certainly may be explained, and if so then that's great. But if they're not explained, then it's still not a problem, as they don't need filling. Gaps are okay, commonplace, and expected for Dragon Ball.

[Avenged]

http://ameblo.jp/dragonball2015/ has an update in script(?) form with Gokû dropping in on Bulma's blog and dropping plot-hints (that may or may not be addressed in the VJump comic). Could anyone with a higher level of translation knowledge take a look?

Just Goku talking about Freeza's return, 58 days until release and a bit about Trunks. Also a bit on Freeza's further evolution.

[dbzfan7]

More intense? He was stated to be reincarnated INSTANTLY because he was pure evil. Why would Freeza get priority to stick around this long when he should be reincarnated right away too? Unless that torture if it really is that, is worse. But why would Freeza get worse torture than the monster who was a much bigger bad guy than Freeza?

The comparison is not on ass pulls, it's on the fact of people dismissing issues and saying we either don't know or should just come up with our own theories to explain things for now. That is the same thing I was told while waiting for that news. Speculate and dismiss these issues as we don't know enough. Though really holding back all this information can be considered a bad thing if BOG was more generous to share it's news. Could mean they have a bigger surprise, or they don't want people to lose interest if they say something wrong..

Yes, more intense. He was worse than Freeza, but was reincarnated sooner. The process surely would have been more intense. Multiple lifetimes worth of torture condensed into an instant? Perhaps some villains are given bodies back for torture, but Buu's too dangerous for that, so he was just done right away.

Again, the comparison is hardly equal. The issues here are of little consequence, as they tend to be in a Dragon Ball work. The issues with Sonic Boom were of great consequence, as those kinds of issues tend to be in a video game. I'm filling in gaps that I don't expect the film to. They certainly may be explained, and if so then that's great. But if they're not explained, then it's still not a problem, as they don't need filling. Gaps are okay, commonplace, and expected for Dragon Ball.

And that's literally making an excuse without any actual backing. Who's to say reincarnation is actually torture in it's process. Absolutely nothing suggests Boo suffered multiple lifetimes of torment in a literal instant. That's just a theory to try and rationalize something that quite possibly none of the staff care to even think about. Boo was done right away as a request to Goku. He was pure evil so the process was over with very quickly. So essentially a worse bad guy was let off scot free compared to a lesser villain.

Gaps do need filling, or everything starts to fall apart. Hence how Goku comes off as such terrible person in the Boo arc. A lot of the stuff there happened because people are morons for some reason instead of using common sense.

[Darkprince410]

Maybe it's a lack of self-awareness to the point that he wouldn't have even really realized it was a punishment. He's a creature almost entirely devoid of reasoning or logical thinking, so it's possible the punishment aspect was skipped because he simply wouldn't comprehend that he was being punished. Punishment/torture only works if the person receiving said punishment actually perceives it as such, which I don't think Pure Buu was capable of. Freeza, on the other hand, is an intelligent, sentient being, and punishment for his deeds in life would seem apt, since he'd actually know he was being tortured (or at least the attempt was being made to torture him).

[dbzfan7]

Maybe it's a lack of self-awareness to the point that he wouldn't have even really realized it was a punishment. He's a creature almost entirely devoid of reasoning or logical thinking, so it's possible the punishment aspect was skipped because he simply wouldn't comprehend that he was being punished. Punishment/torture only works if the person receiving said punishment actually perceives it as such, which I don't think Pure Buu was capable of. Freeza, on the other hand, is an intelligent, sentient being, and punishment for his deeds in life would seem apt, since he'd actually know he was being tortured (or at least the attempt was being made to torture him).

Boo ain't that stupid. He's able to mimic complex moves just by seeing them once. He's able to feel fear as well. I doubt he'd regret his sins if he were punished...but guess what? Neither would Freeza.

[Chuquita]

http://ameblo.jp/dragonball2015/ has an update in script(?) form with Gokû dropping in on Bulma's blog and dropping plot-hints (that may or may not be addressed in the VJump comic). Could anyone with a higher level of translation knowledge take a look?

Just Goku talking about Freeza's return, 58 days until release and a bit about Trunks. Also a bit on Freeza's further evolution.

He mentions Vegeta at one point. Does he say why?

[SaiyaJedi]

http://ameblo.jp/dragonball2015/ has an update in script(?) form with Gokû dropping in on Bulma's blog and dropping plot-hints (that may or may not be addressed in the VJump comic). Could anyone with a higher level of translation knowledge take a look?

It's mostly just hyping up the premise of the movie, but this bit reveals what looks to be a bit of new info:

ブルマ：
フリーザって、未来のトランクスがめちゃめちゃに切り刻んじゃったじゃない！

悟空：
そこをなんとかっつー機械で、粉々になった肉体をくっつけちまったみてえなんだよな。
しかも、あいつはオラやトランクスにやられちまったことで、すげえ恨みを持ってて、オラたちに勝つために、4段階の変身よりも更に進化するような強さを身に着けて襲ってきやがったんだ。
-------
Bulma:
But didn't the Trunks from the future dice Freeza up into tiny bits?!

Goku:
They put all the little pieces of his body back together using a whatchamacallit machine, seems like.
And on top of that, since he was defeated by me and Trunks, he's got a huge grudge, and to win against me, he attacked after gaining the strength to progress/evolve further beyond his four transformations.

Goku goes on to say that Freeza being a lot stronger makes him excited, which earns him the ire of Bulma when the Earth is in danger.

I suppose we can expect further plot details to trickle out like this over the next 58 days until the movie's release.

[Retan]

Why does your countdown say 39 days to release Chuquita?

[dbzfan7]

http://ameblo.jp/dragonball2015/ has an update in script(?) form with Gokû dropping in on Bulma's blog and dropping plot-hints (that may or may not be addressed in the VJump comic). Could anyone with a higher level of translation knowledge take a look?

It's mostly just hyping up the premise of the movie, but this bit reveals what looks to be a bit of new info:

ブルマ：
フリーザって、未来のトランクスがめちゃめちゃに切り刻んじゃったじゃない！

悟空：
そこをなんとかっつー機械で、粉々になった肉体をくっつけちまったみてえなんだよな。
しかも、あいつはオラやトランクスにやられちまったことで、すげえ恨みを持ってて、オラたちに勝つために、4段階の変身よりも更に進化するような強さを身に着けて襲ってきやがったんだ。
-------
Bulma:
But didn't the Trunks from the future dice Freeza up into tiny bits?!

Goku:
They put all the little pieces of his body back together using a whatchamacallit machine, seems like.
And on top of that, since he was defeated by me and Trunks, he's got a huge grudge, and to win against me, he attacked after gaining the strength to progress/evolve further beyond his four transformations.

Goku goes on to say that Freeza being a lot stronger makes him excited, which earns him the ire of Bulma when the Earth is in danger.

I suppose we can expect further plot details to trickle out like this over the next 58 days until the movie's release.

But we saw the pieces literally blasted into smithereens.

[Babbu]

http://ameblo.jp/dragonball2015/ has an update in script(?) form with Gokû dropping in on Bulma's blog and dropping plot-hints (that may or may not be addressed in the VJump comic). Could anyone with a higher level of translation knowledge take a look?

It's mostly just hyping up the premise of the movie, but this bit reveals what looks to be a bit of new info:

ブルマ：
フリーザって、未来のトランクスがめちゃめちゃに切り刻んじゃったじゃない！

悟空：
そこをなんとかっつー機械で、粉々になった肉体をくっつけちまったみてえなんだよな。
しかも、あいつはオラやトランクスにやられちまったことで、すげえ恨みを持ってて、オラたちに勝つために、4段階の変身よりも更に進化するような強さを身に着けて襲ってきやがったんだ。
-------
Bulma:
But didn't the Trunks from the future dice Freeza up into tiny bits?!

Goku:
They put all the little pieces of his body back together using a whatchamacallit machine, seems like.
And on top of that, since he was defeated by me and Trunks, he's got a huge grudge, and to win against me, he attacked after gaining the strength to progress/evolve further beyond his four transformations.

Goku goes on to say that Freeza being a lot stronger makes him excited, which earns him the ire of Bulma when the Earth is in danger.

I suppose we can expect further plot details to trickle out like this over the next 58 days until the movie's release.

But we saw the pieces literally blasted into smithereens.

Instead of being brought back with his whole body when wished back he is brought back in all the little pieces Trunks cut him into.

[Retan]

Yeah, wasn't that the entire reason Future Trunks did that?

[RandomGuy96]

Instead of being brought back with his whole body when wished back he is brought back in all the little pieces Trunks cut him into.

Why?

[Regarder]

But we saw the pieces literally blasted into smithereens.

Plot twist: all this time since BOG, it's been the universe where Trunks forgot to do that.

Spoiler:

Jus kidding. They obviously forgot.

[Chuquita]

http://ameblo.jp/dragonball2015/ has an update in script(?) form with Gokû dropping in on Bulma's blog and dropping plot-hints (that may or may not be addressed in the VJump comic). Could anyone with a higher level of translation knowledge take a look?

It's mostly just hyping up the premise of the movie, but this bit reveals what looks to be a bit of new info:

ブルマ：
フリーザって、未来のトランクスがめちゃめちゃに切り刻んじゃったじゃない！

悟空：
そこをなんとかっつー機械で、粉々になった肉体をくっつけちまったみてえなんだよな。
しかも、あいつはオラやトランクスにやられちまったことで、すげえ恨みを持ってて、オラたちに勝つために、4段階の変身よりも更に進化するような強さを身に着けて襲ってきやがったんだ。
-------
Bulma:
But didn't the Trunks from the future dice Freeza up into tiny bits?!

Goku:
They put all the little pieces of his body back together using a whatchamacallit machine, seems like.
And on top of that, since he was defeated by me and Trunks, he's got a huge grudge, and to win against me, he attacked after gaining the strength to progress/evolve further beyond his four transformations.

Goku goes on to say that Freeza being a lot stronger makes him excited, which earns him the ire of Bulma when the Earth is in danger.

I suppose we can expect further plot details to trickle out like this over the next 58 days until the movie's release.

*Is instantly reminded of the many malaprops TFS!Gokû made of "The Hyperbolic Time Chamber".* X3
I am totally going to refer to this thing as the "whatchamacallit machine" until its official name is revealed. :3

Why does your countdown say 39 days to release Chuquita?

It's counting down to the first day of preview showings for F; March 30th. :3 (The showings that Julian and Kei are entering the contest to get a chance to be in the audience for. Kei won a ticket last time for BOG.)
Since full spoilers will start flooding the internet once those early showings happen, I decided to count down to that instead.

[Zephyr]

And that's literally making an excuse without any actual backing. Who's to say reincarnation is actually torture in it's process. Absolutely nothing suggests Boo suffered multiple lifetimes of torment in a literal instant. That's just a theory to try and rationalize something that quite possibly none of the staff care to even think about. Boo was done right away as a request to Goku. He was pure evil so the process was over with very quickly. So essentially a worse bad guy was let off scot free compared to a lesser villain.

Gaps do need filling, or everything starts to fall apart. Hence how Goku comes off as such terrible person in the Boo arc. A lot of the stuff there happened because people are morons for some reason instead of using common sense.

I don't believe I ever implied that I wasn't coming up with theories and rationalizations, or that the staff gives a damn about this stuff. I'm trying to give the least assumptive answers for questions I can that arise as a result of the facts that the manga gives us taken with the facts the film is giving us.

Proposition A is true, and Proposition B is true. They don't immediately appear compatible, and yet they're both true. What does it take for them both to be true? Whatever that is also has to be true. That's what I'm trying to determine here. That is, again, a normal thing to need to do in a DB story. Coming up with them is more constructive and engaging than bemoaning the lack of something we've never had and likely never will: all-encompassing, succinct, clear, neat, prefect exposition on the part of the staff. I mean yeah, it fucking sucks that they're not putting as much care into the finer details as they should, but I just don't expect them to at this point. Doing that just feels to me like the result of excessive optimism for one of the franchise's weakest aspects.

[Kakarot9001]

" Why did Popo not have Goku use his carpet? How did Trunks' future even happen when there are so many things that could have prevented it?"

I don't get it what you said. Why would Goku use Mr. Popo's carpet? And what are those "many things" that could have prevented Trunks's future?


"Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was implied Enma-Daioh reincarnated Buu at the behest of Goku. Or am I mistaken?"

Yes it was. Also... When we gonna get World's Strongest, Super Android 13 Abridged? Love your parody

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And for god sake my expectations through this movie are the worst possible, all the story seems like as said before a "bad fanfic"
Freeza returning from the dead with great powers to be on par with Goku who obtained God Powers? Non-Sense!

Anyway I read about the "official" conception of Toriyama about the Hell in the series and I really dislike that he is ignoring the anime and going only through the manga
as he did with the past movie not introducing Gregory or with Kid Vegeta hairless like his adult appearance, I think the way they introduced Kid Vegeta in Bardock: The Father of Goku was perfect, especially on his hair... Back to his Hell desigh, I don't get it why Freeza is his 'Mecha' state and If we going to see he in Hell in this new movie, will we see also Cell and other villain? That would be Super-Special-Awesome!