Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Super Vegetto wrote:"Because Goten and Trunks trained as a fusion then they got stronger when they was unfused. Which makes Gotenks base stronger than the Gotenks of the past. Gotenks made be a different guy but he a result of Goten and Trunks's power."
You mean this ?
You still say that it's result of Goten and Trunks power which isn't. It's result of Gotenks power.
Kids can't posiblty surpass own SSJ sef in less than 2 weeks...
Can't you just quote me instead of putting quotation marks. It's much easier.
So you're telling me Gotenks does not come from the power of Goten and Trunks? Also I JUST SAID :
Let's get something straight: You say Base Goten and Trunks Post Rosat > SSJ Goten and Trunks Pre Rosat ?
No cause they would make them stronger than. I'm saying Goten and Trunks got stronger in the ROSAT
They didn't got stronger in Rosat. Only Gotenks got stronger in Rosat.
How would Gotenks get stronger and not Goten and Trunks -_-. Gotenks is the power of Goten and Trunks
Wrong. Gotenks is complitly diffrent guy.
Yeah... you are wrong. Piccolo says that if the kids can make small gains, they will turn into big gains for Gotenks (same thing was said about Gohan: his small gains in base would turn into big gains in Super Saiyan). The guidebooks also state that Fusion makes the pair dozens of times stronger, so Fusion is a multiplier like the Super Saiyan forms.
And BTW, base Gotenks (post) didn't necessarily surpassed SS Gotenks (pre). We've seen fighters thinking before sensing (Piccolo & Kuririn for example thought that Cell had killed Gohan because they didn't bother to sense if he is alive or not), so Piccolo just came to a quick conclusion because of Gotenks' stupid overconfidence. The whole scene was just a gag anyway.
goku the krump dancer wrote:Some of you guys' Gogeta strength logic confuses the hell outta me.
SSJ Gotenks (the fusion of otherwise piss-water level Goten and Trunks) can rival SSJ3 Goku.
But SSJ Gogeta (The fusion of two of the strongest, most experienced and battle savvy individuals) can't surpass Ultimate Gohan? Who's at best x5 stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
You mean to tell me SSJ Gogeta is at best less than x5 stronger than SSJ3 Goku?
To put it simply in BPs, I go by this (Fusion = Ax160):
Spoiler:
Son Goku - 75.000.000
Super Saiyan - 3.750.000.000 Super Saiyan 2 - 7.500.000.000 Super Saiyan 3 - 30.000.000.000
Son Goten - 44.000.000
Super Saiyan - 2.200.000.000
Post-RoSaT - 50.000.000
Super Saiyan - 2.500.000.000
Vegeta - 60.000.000
Super Saiyan - 3.000.000.000 Super Saiyan 2 - 6.000.000.000
Post-Majin - 75.000.000
Super Saiyan - 3.750.000.000 Super Saiyan 2 - 7.500.000.000
Trunks - 45.000.000
Super Saiyan - 2.250.000.000.
Post-RoSaT - 50.000.000
Super Saiyan - 2.500.000.000
Gotenks - 7.200.000.000
Super Saiyan - 360.000.000.000
Post-RoSaT - 8.000.000.000
Super Saiyan - 400.000.000.000 Super Saiyan 3 - 3.200.000.000.000
Vegetto - 6.750.000.000.000
Super Saiyan - 337.500.000.000.000
Gogeta - 12.000.000.000
Super Saiyan - 600.000.000.000 Super Saiyan 2- 1.200.000.000.000 Super Saiyan 3- 4.800.000.000.000
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Gotenks comes from power of Goten and Trunks, but he can also train himself to achive even bigger gains. He is another person after all.
I don't understand. You say: "I'm saying Goten and Trunks got stronger in the ROSAT". It's same thing i just said...
DBZGTKOSDH:
No...your wrong. Btw where did Piccolo said that ? It's said about Gohan that he will get stronger if he transforms in SSJ, because he was stronger in base. It's not the same.
Which guidbook ?
Oh yes he did:
Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P11.5
Context: seeing Gotenks after he’d trained in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “He-he really is different…! He really has greatly powered up…! Th-this just might…!”
Sensing his power before gives us: Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks. He was obviously wrong about Super Boo because his power level changed couple of times during the fight.
I don't understand. You say: "I'm saying Goten and Trunks got stronger in the ROSAT". It's same thing i just said...
No it's not. You was just saying that according to me Base Goten and Trunks(POST) is stronger than SSJ Goten and Trunks(PAST) which is NOT what I said. Also please just use the quote button it's much easier to read that way,
Gotenks comes from power of Goten and Trunks, but he can also train himself to achive even bigger gains. He is another person after all.
*sigh*. Gotenks bigger gains comes from Goten and Trunks getting stronger.
Sensing his power before gives us: Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks. He was obviously wrong about Super Boo because his power level changed couple of times during the fight.
Piccolo was desperate. As said earlier how many time has sensing been WRONG.
You didn't exactly said Base Kids > SSJ Kids Pre, but you are saying that.
You say that Kids gaining power in Rosat is result of Gotenks power, which means Base Kids formed stronger Base Gotenks than SSJ Kids.
And you get Base Kids > SSJ Kids Pre. Do you understand now ?
So Piccolo was so desperate that he forgot Gotenks and Fat Boo power
He compered Gotenks to SSJ Gotenks, and he saw Gotenks as much stronger compered to Pre Rosat one. He was definitly sure that SSJ Gotenks could't beat Super Boo, but after sensing Base Gotenks he was sure that he has a chance.
You didn't exactly said Base Kids > SSJ Kids Pre, but you are saying that.
That is exactly what I said:
Let's get something straight: You say Base Goten and Trunks Post Rosat > SSJ Goten and Trunks Pre Rosat ?
No cause they would make them stronger than. I'm saying Goten and Trunks got stronger in the ROSAT
You say that Kids gaining power in Rosat is result of Gotenks power, which means Base Kids formed stronger Base Gotenks than SSJ Kids.
No I said Gotenks training made the kids stronger. Also Base Gotenks(post) isn't > SSJ Gotenks(Pre). That would be a over 50x increase. They was there for like 2 weeks. They aren't piccolo.
So Piccolo was so desperate that he forgot Gotenks and Fat Boo power
Piccolo was underestimating Gohan to the point that he said he was dead when Gohan was alive and his Ki did not drop ONE BIT during the Cell games. So yes this happens A LOT in DBZ. Desperate times leads to desperate situations
He compered Gotenks to SSJ Gotenks, and he saw Gotenks as much stronger compered to Pre Rosat one. He was definitly sure that SSJ Gotenks could't beat Super Boo, but after sensing Base Gotenks he was sure that he has a chance.
How you know he used SSJ Gotenks as a stick? He could have gotten a lot stronger in base but still weaker than SSJ. Once agin Piccolo was desperate. He even believed that Gotenks was out of options and destroyed the ROSAT door. Seeing as Gotenks was more cocky he also believe that Base Gotenks got stronger. To bad that's not what happen.
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Super Gogeta VS All forms of Majin Buu.
How many does he take down?
Gogeta crushes all forms of Buu in his SSJ form. Also, seriously Super Vegetto....? If Goten and Trunks were to power up, Gotenks would also power up because he is the many times stronger than the sum of the 2 fusees. Piccolo even freakin states that if Goten and Trunks were to get stronger, Gotenks would get a lot stronger.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Super Vegetto wrote:Btw where did Piccolo said that ? It's said about Gohan that he will get stronger if he transforms in SSJ, because he was stronger in base. It's not the same.
Here:
Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P13.2-3
Context: after Gotenks returns from fighting Boo
Gotenks: “I got the tar beaten out of me…”
Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when you perform Fusion. Got that, you miserable little punks?!”
Super Vegetto wrote:Which guidbook ?
Daizenshuu #10, Chozenshuu #2, Son Goku Densetsu, and GT Perfect Files #2.
Super Vegetto wrote:Oh yes he did:
Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P11.5
Context: seeing Gotenks after he’d trained in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “He-he really is different…! He really has greatly powered up…! Th-this just might…!”
Sensing his power before gives us: Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks. He was obviously wrong about Super Boo because his power level changed couple of times during the fight.
He had also sensed SS Gohan's & Cell's power back then, and he should know that shouldn't be able to kill Gohan so easily. Piccolo just overestimated Gotenks' increase because of Gotenks' overconfidence IMO. It doesn't make sense for base Gotenks > SS Gotenks.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
2 kids forming guy (Gotenks) in just base surpassed 2 SSJ kids forming guy (SSJ Gotenks) isn't serious.
I belive that power comes from kids, but not power Gotenks achived while training in Rosat...
You should probably stop talking nonsense while your ahead. I really don't want to be rude, but you're digging yourself into a very deep hole with this kind of logic.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Super Vegetto wrote:Yes it doesn't make sense for Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks, but i can't ignore it...
I'm not ignoring it, I just take it as a mistake from Gotenks' & Piccolo's part. Gotenks is a moron that believes he is the strongest, so he thinks that he got so strong that he can beat Boo in base. Piccolo sees that Gotenks powered-up through training, and he sees Gotenks' confidence that he can win. He got quickly excited, only to realize that he was a fool for thinking that Gotenks was that strong. Long story short, Piccolo made a quick & mistaken judgment for Gotenks' strength. So, depending on how you interpret the line, it doesn't necessarily mean that base Gotenks > SS Gotenks.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Super Gogeta VS All forms of Majin Buu.
SSJ Gogeta loses to Super Boo.
SSJ3 loses to Bootenks.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Super Gogeta VS All forms of Majin Buu.
SSJ Gogeta loses to Super Boo.
SSJ3 loses to Bootenks.
That makes absolutely no sense to me.
A fusion between Goten and Trunks who are inferior to their respective fathers can rival and surpass SSJ3 Goku (who's the stronger of the two dads), but a fusion between the two said fathers (who seem to be much more compatible than their sons) can't surpass Ultimate Gohan?
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Eh..I think it would stop at Buuhan. Other than that I could see him equaling Buutenks and obliterating Super, Kid, and Fat Buu.
Mmm I believe in the One Level Theory between Vegetto and Gogeta in DBZ. Pothala is better ( apart from no time limit ) because the stronger one doesn't need to lower his power to be on par with the weakest one. If Vegetto fight Boohan with almost no problem, SSJ Gogeta also would.
