The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

[Pantalones]

The SS transformation is 50x the base PL. Even if Bardock got a zenkai during EoB, his PL in base would be like 20k there, and 1 million in SS. Even then, SS Bardock is nowhere NEAR close to Frieza beyond his third form. 4th Form/50%/70%/100% would CRUSH SS Bardock.

To be fair, Bardock could've gotten one of those random huge near-death boosts like Goku got in the Freeza saga, like when he jumped from 90,000 all the way up to 3 million (around a 33x boost.)

So if we assume he started at the "nearly 10,000" stated in the original Bardock special (Episode of Bardock definitely follows the events of that, after all), base Bardock could've ended up as high as 330,000. So his Super Saiyan form would be more than enough to destroy first, second, or third form Freeza... and even in his final form Freeza would need to put forth some effort, since SSj Bardock would be equivalent to something along the lines of a Kaio-ken x5 Goku (too much for the level Freeza was at initially which was about equal to base Goku it seemed, but of course way weaker than his full power or even 50%.)

[Steven Bloodriver]

The SS transformation is 50x the base PL. Even if Bardock got a zenkai during EoB, his PL in base would be like 20k there, and 1 million in SS. Even then, SS Bardock is nowhere NEAR close to Frieza beyond his third form. 4th Form/50%/70%/100% would CRUSH SS Bardock.

To be fair, Bardock could've gotten one of those random huge near-death boosts like Goku got in the Freeza saga, like when he jumped from 90,000 all the way up to 3 million (around a 33x boost.)

So if we assume he started at the "nearly 10,000" stated in the original Bardock special (Episode of Bardock definitely follows the events of that, after all), base Bardock could've ended up as high as 330,000. So his Super Saiyan form would be more than enough to destroy first, second, or third form Freeza... and even in his final form Freeza would need to put forth some effort, since SSj Bardock would be equivalent to something along the lines of a Kaio-ken x5 Goku (too much for the level Freeza was at initially which was about equal to base Goku it seemed, but of course way weaker than his full power or even 50%.)

What if following Cell becoming Perfect Cell and making Super Vegeta his meinu, Goku, Gohan, and Future Trunks discovered Super Saiyan 4 during their training in the Room of Spirit and Time? Would it help them thwart the threats following the Cell Games?

[TheUltimateNinja]

What if following Cell becoming Perfect Cell and making Super Vegeta his meinu, Goku, Gohan, and Future Trunks discovered Super Saiyan 4 during their training in the Room of Spirit and Time? Would it help them thwart the threats following the Cell Games?

Obviously, All of them would become strong enough thrash Perfect Cell effortlessly and even Super Perfect Cell.

I'm going to use a 500x multiplier here since 4000x is way too OP.

Anyway, after obtaining SS4 Goku casually obliterates Cell by himself and trains with Gohan for 7 years until the Buu Saga, causing both of them to become much stronger than in canon, also Vegeta is now totally irrelevant since he's only SS2 at best.

When Shin tries to restrain Gohan at the Budokai, Gohan easily breaks out of his hold, but they still follow Spopovich and Yamu to Babidi's hideout. Now, Vegeta will realize he's thoroughly outclassed by Goku and won't give in to the Majin spell, and even if he does Goku will easily oneshot him. Buu has no energy so he cannot be revived, so Goku and Gohan obliterate his shell along with Dabura and Babidi. Assuming Buu still manages to come out anyway, he gets obliterated instantly. Assuming Super Buu somehow shows up, he also gets obliterated instantly. Same for Pure Buu.

Super Saiyan 4 is then made obsolete by Super Saiyan God in Battle of Gods.

[Steven Bloodriver]

What if following Cell becoming Perfect Cell and making Super Vegeta his meinu, Goku, Gohan, and Future Trunks discovered Super Saiyan 4 during their training in the Room of Spirit and Time? Would it help them thwart the threats following the Cell Games?

Obviously, All of them would become strong enough thrash Perfect Cell effortlessly and even Super Perfect Cell.

I'm going to use a 500x multiplier here since 4000x is way too OP.

Anyway, after obtaining SS4 Goku casually obliterates Cell by himself and trains with Gohan for 7 years until the Buu Saga, causing both of them to become much stronger than in canon, also Vegeta is now totally irrelevant since he's only SS2 at best.

When Shin tries to restrain Gohan at the Budokai, Gohan easily breaks out of his hold, but they still follow Spopovich and Yamu to Babidi's hideout. Now, Vegeta will realize he's thoroughly outclassed by Goku and won't give in to the Majin spell, and even if he does Goku will easily oneshot him. Buu has no energy so he cannot be revived, so Goku and Gohan obliterate his shell along with Dabura and Babidi. Assuming Buu still manages to come out anyway, he gets obliterated instantly. Assuming Super Buu somehow shows up, he also gets obliterated instantly. Same for Pure Buu.

Super Saiyan 4 is then made obsolete by Super Saiyan God in Battle of Gods.

1) I doubt Vegeta wouldn't find a way to reach SSJ4 by himself or from help by Bulma before the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai.

2) Also, nearly 12 years of training after achieving Super Saiyan 4 would make both Goku and Gohan strong enough to contend with Beerus, Golden Frieza, Hit, Goku Black, and all three of those insufferable Jakkasus named Zamasu.

3) But what about Future Trunks? You left out what he would do following his return home.

[Sailor Haumea]

What if Ginyu succeeded in body-swapping with either Vegeta (during the battle where Goku threw the frog) or with Piccolo (after hijacking Bulma's body)?

[TheUltimateNinja]

What if following Cell becoming Perfect Cell and making Super Vegeta his meinu, Goku, Gohan, and Future Trunks discovered Super Saiyan 4 during their training in the Room of Spirit and Time? Would it help them thwart the threats following the Cell Games?

Obviously, All of them would become strong enough thrash Perfect Cell effortlessly and even Super Perfect Cell.

I'm going to use a 500x multiplier here since 4000x is way too OP.

Anyway, after obtaining SS4 Goku casually obliterates Cell by himself and trains with Gohan for 7 years until the Buu Saga, causing both of them to become much stronger than in canon, also Vegeta is now totally irrelevant since he's only SS2 at best.

When Shin tries to restrain Gohan at the Budokai, Gohan easily breaks out of his hold, but they still follow Spopovich and Yamu to Babidi's hideout. Now, Vegeta will realize he's thoroughly outclassed by Goku and won't give in to the Majin spell, and even if he does Goku will easily oneshot him. Buu has no energy so he cannot be revived, so Goku and Gohan obliterate his shell along with Dabura and Babidi. Assuming Buu still manages to come out anyway, he gets obliterated instantly. Assuming Super Buu somehow shows up, he also gets obliterated instantly. Same for Pure Buu.

Super Saiyan 4 is then made obsolete by Super Saiyan God in Battle of Gods.

1) I doubt Vegeta wouldn't find a way to reach SSJ4 by himself or from help by Bulma before the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai.

2) Also, nearly 12 years of training after achieving Super Saiyan 4 would make both Goku and Gohan strong enough to contend with Beerus, Golden Frieza, Hit, Goku Black, and all three of those insufferable Jakkasus named Zamasu.

3) But what about Future Trunks? You left out what he would do following his return home.

1) If Vegeta manages to become a Super Saiyan 4, he'd still be considerably weaker than Goku so it won't really make much of a difference, besides, it'll get replaced by SSGod and SSBlue soon.

2) Sure, they could take Golden Frieza and Goku could take Hit with his 10x Kaioken, but Goku Black and Beerus would still be out of their reach.

3) He would easily wreck the androids and Cell, then he would train for 7 years and kill Dabura and Babidi, and even Majin Buu if he gets released. Then he gets wrecked by Goku Black same as in canon, except now he's SSJ4 instead of SSJ2. Later he gets a rage boost and temporarily overwhelms Black and goes back in time to ask Goku and co. for help and then things continue the same as in canon, except Trunks' new form would perhaps be somewhat different.

[TheUltimateNinja]

What if Ginyu succeeded in body-swapping with either Vegeta (during the battle where Goku threw the frog) or with Piccolo (after hijacking Bulma's body)?

1) If he managed to swap with Vegeta, then Goku, Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die and Frieza would achieve immortality.

2) If he managed to swap with Piccolo, then Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die, but then he gets killed by an enraged SSJ Goku.

[Sailor Haumea]

What if Ginyu succeeded in body-swapping with either Vegeta (during the battle where Goku threw the frog) or with Piccolo (after hijacking Bulma's body)?

1) If he managed to swap with Vegeta, then Goku, Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die and Frieza would achieve immortality.

2) If he managed to swap with Piccolo, then Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die, but then he gets killed by an enraged SSJ Goku.

So basically, in option 1, Frieza wins? What does Frieza do next?

[TheUltimateNinja]

What if Ginyu succeeded in body-swapping with either Vegeta (during the battle where Goku threw the frog) or with Piccolo (after hijacking Bulma's body)?

1) If he managed to swap with Vegeta, then Goku, Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die and Frieza would achieve immortality.

2) If he managed to swap with Piccolo, then Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die, but then he gets killed by an enraged SSJ Goku.

So basically, in option 1, Frieza wins? What does Frieza do next?

Just gloat and continue to rule the universe until Beerus shows up and wrecks him.

[Sailor Haumea]

1) If he managed to swap with Vegeta, then Goku, Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die and Frieza would achieve immortality.

2) If he managed to swap with Piccolo, then Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta would die, but then he gets killed by an enraged SSJ Goku.

So basically, in option 1, Frieza wins? What does Frieza do next?

Just gloat and continue to rule the universe until Beerus shows up and wrecks him.

Well, what does he do with his remaining wishes?

What happens to Dende and Bulma?

[TheUltimateNinja]

So basically, in option 1, Frieza wins? What does Frieza do next?

Just gloat and continue to rule the universe until Beerus shows up and wrecks him.

Well, what does he do with his remaining wishes?

What happens to Dende and Bulma?

Dende and Bulma die too, unless they somehow manage to trick Frieza by making the wrong wishes in Namekian. If Frieza's smart, he'll have Dende translate all his wishes and then confirm those words with some other Namekians to make sure he's getting the right wishes.
Assuming Frieza does find a way to get his wishes, I don't think there's anything else he wants that the Namekian dragon has sufficient power to grant. It's likely that Guru will just die before he has the opportunity to make any more wishes.

[Sailor Haumea]

Just gloat and continue to rule the universe until Beerus shows up and wrecks him.

Well, what does he do with his remaining wishes?

What happens to Dende and Bulma?

Dende and Bulma die too, unless they somehow manage to trick Frieza by making the wrong wishes in Namekian. If Frieza's smart, he'll have Dende translate all his wishes and then confirm those words with some other Namekians to make sure he's getting the right wishes.
Assuming Frieza does find a way to get his wishes, I don't think there's anything else he wants that the Namekian dragon has sufficient power to grant. It's likely that Guru will just die before he has the opportunity to make any more wishes.

Well, does Frieza go off and kill Cooler afterwards?

And what does he do with Cold and Kuriza?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Well, what does he do with his remaining wishes?

What happens to Dende and Bulma?

Dende and Bulma die too, unless they somehow manage to trick Frieza by making the wrong wishes in Namekian. If Frieza's smart, he'll have Dende translate all his wishes and then confirm those words with some other Namekians to make sure he's getting the right wishes.
Assuming Frieza does find a way to get his wishes, I don't think there's anything else he wants that the Namekian dragon has sufficient power to grant. It's likely that Guru will just die before he has the opportunity to make any more wishes.

Well, does Frieza go off and kill Cooler afterwards?

And what does he do with Cold and Kuriza?

Cooler and Kuriza aren't canon, but if they were he would most likely just ignore Kuriza and if he were to attempt to face Cooler he would get thrashed. Also, as for his father I suppose he would simply hold a somewhat begrudging sense of respect toward him.

[Sailor Haumea]

Dende and Bulma die too, unless they somehow manage to trick Frieza by making the wrong wishes in Namekian. If Frieza's smart, he'll have Dende translate all his wishes and then confirm those words with some other Namekians to make sure he's getting the right wishes.
Assuming Frieza does find a way to get his wishes, I don't think there's anything else he wants that the Namekian dragon has sufficient power to grant. It's likely that Guru will just die before he has the opportunity to make any more wishes.

Well, does Frieza go off and kill Cooler afterwards?

And what does he do with Cold and Kuriza?

Cooler and Kuriza aren't canon, but if they were he would most likely just ignore Kuriza and if he were to attempt to face Cooler he would get thrashed. Also, as for his father I suppose he would simply hold a somewhat begrudging sense of respect toward him.

Kuriza is definitely canon. He was in Toriyama's work.

Cooler's existence and appearance are canon because Toriyama designed him. While the movie isn't manga canon, the fact that Frieza has a brother named Cooler IS because Toriyama designed him.

[Anime Kitten]

Designed by Toriyama = canon? What logic is that?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Well, does Frieza go off and kill Cooler afterwards?

And what does he do with Cold and Kuriza?

Cooler and Kuriza aren't canon, but if they were he would most likely just ignore Kuriza and if he were to attempt to face Cooler he would get thrashed. Also, as for his father I suppose he would simply hold a somewhat begrudging sense of respect toward him.

Kuriza is definitely canon. He was in Toriyama's work.

Cooler's existence and appearance are canon because Toriyama designed him. While the movie isn't manga canon, the fact that Frieza has a brother named Cooler IS because Toriyama designed him.

They do not, however appear in Toriyama's official Dragon Ball work, unless you were to call Neko Majin canon too. Anyway, regardless, canon or not my response still applies.

Designed by Toriyama = canon? What logic is that?

Exactly.

[ekrolo2]

Designed by Toriyama = canon? What logic is that?

Don't go down this rabbit hole, trying to explain the stupidity of DB canon debates is a sure-fire way to give yourself a migraine.

[Sailor Haumea]

Designed by Toriyama = canon? What logic is that?

Don't go down this rabbit hole, trying to explain the stupidity of DB canon debates is a sure-fire way to give yourself a migraine.

The fact is, it was TUN who brought up canon.

I didn't ask the question expecting someone to retort that the characters aren't canon. That's completely irrelevant to the question.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Designed by Toriyama = canon? What logic is that?

Don't go down this rabbit hole, trying to explain the stupidity of DB canon debates is a sure-fire way to give yourself a migraine.

The fact is, it was TUN who brought up canon.

I didn't ask the question expecting someone to retort that the characters aren't canon. That's completely irrelevant to the question.

I simply brought that up as a side point, it had no bearing on the rest of my post which would have been valid whether or not they were canon, which I maintain that they are not.

[Steven Bloodriver]

Obviously, All of them would become strong enough thrash Perfect Cell effortlessly and even Super Perfect Cell.

I'm going to use a 500x multiplier here since 4000x is way too OP.

Anyway, after obtaining SS4 Goku casually obliterates Cell by himself and trains with Gohan for 7 years until the Buu Saga, causing both of them to become much stronger than in canon, also Vegeta is now totally irrelevant since he's only SS2 at best.

When Shin tries to restrain Gohan at the Budokai, Gohan easily breaks out of his hold, but they still follow Spopovich and Yamu to Babidi's hideout. Now, Vegeta will realize he's thoroughly outclassed by Goku and won't give in to the Majin spell, and even if he does Goku will easily oneshot him. Buu has no energy so he cannot be revived, so Goku and Gohan obliterate his shell along with Dabura and Babidi. Assuming Buu still manages to come out anyway, he gets obliterated instantly. Assuming Super Buu somehow shows up, he also gets obliterated instantly. Same for Pure Buu.

Super Saiyan 4 is then made obsolete by Super Saiyan God in Battle of Gods.

1) I doubt Vegeta wouldn't find a way to reach SSJ4 by himself or from help by Bulma before the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai.

2) Also, nearly 12 years of training after achieving Super Saiyan 4 would make both Goku and Gohan strong enough to contend with Beerus, Golden Frieza, Hit, Goku Black, and all three of those insufferable Jakkasus named Zamasu.

3) But what about Future Trunks? You left out what he would do following his return home.

1) If Vegeta manages to become a Super Saiyan 4, he'd still be considerably weaker than Goku so it won't really make much of a difference, besides, it'll get replaced by SSGod and SSBlue soon.

2) Sure, they could take Golden Frieza and Goku could take Hit with his 10x Kaioken, but Goku Black and Beerus would still be out of their reach.

3) He would easily wreck the androids and Cell, then he would train for 7 years and kill Dabura and Babidi, and even Majin Buu if he gets released. Then he gets wrecked by Goku Black same as in canon, except now he's SSJ4 instead of SSJ2. Later he gets a rage boost and temporarily overwhelms Black and goes back in time to ask Goku and co. for help and then things continue the same as in canon, except Trunks' new form would perhaps be somewhat different.

1) Actually, no he wouldn't. As for two examples, in both Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball: Xenoverse, Super Saiyan 4 made Vegeta an equal to the same Goku that reached beyond his limits and nearly killed Syn Shenron with a 10x Kamehameha.

2) While Gohan would be the stronger one of the three Super Saiyan 4s (if Goten, Trunks, and/or Gotenks never bothered to learn to go SSJ4), the years following the Cell Games would have been enough time for Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan to become strong enough to match and then even defeat Beerus at 70% power, Golden Frieza, Hit, Goku Black, Present Zamasu, and his future counterpart as after defeating Baby Vegeta and Baby himself, Little Goku (GT) had improved enough through training that his Super Saiyan state became even more powerful than Majuub, despite the latter having been stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Little Goku (GT) just months ago.

3) Also with Future Trunks not just as a Super Saiyan Grade 4, but as a Super Saiyan 4 now; Future Androids 17 and 18, along with Future Imperfect Cell, Babidi and his Majins, and Goku Black would have been screwed beyond imagination against him.
[spoiler]As right from the get-go, Future Trunks would not have hesitated to use his Super Saiyan 4 transformation against every single last one of them, and with nearly a decade to train, the Saiyan from the future would have been enough in strength to make sure that both Goku Black and Future Zamasu would fail in their Zero Mortals Plan.[/spoiler]