Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by kinisking » Fri May 06, 2016 8:42 pm

Ajay wrote:
Avok wrote:That's what my point: Dragon Ball productions are -for the most part- stuck in the past.
If you're talking about Dragon Ball in general then you certainly don't need to tell me twice. I've spoken at length about Yamamuro and the production committee being totally unwilling to try new things with the series. Horrible character designs and a lead supervisor obsessed with mundane action is never going to let the series go anywhere fun, especially when he keeps getting put in more and more senior positions.
a
C'mon Yamamuro's designs are far from horrible. They're not THAT much different from Akira's. They could be better of course, but they could also be much, much worse. The other stuff I agree with.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by JulieYBM » Fri May 06, 2016 8:54 pm

The quality has nothing to do with whether or not they match Toriyama's drawings, it has to do with whether or not they're pleasant to look at.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by kinisking » Fri May 06, 2016 9:19 pm

JulieYBM wrote:The quality has nothing to do with whether or not they match Toriyama's drawings, it has to do with whether or not they're pleasant to look at.
Well you can't blame him for adhering to Toriyama's drawings. Anime's aren't supposed to be completely different from the manga art style wise. If someone on here thinks dragonball has horrible or unpleasant character designs then I'm surprised they even like the show.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by JulieYBM » Fri May 06, 2016 9:26 pm

kinisking wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:The quality has nothing to do with whether or not they match Toriyama's drawings, it has to do with whether or not they're pleasant to look at.
Well you can't blame him for adhering to Toriyama's drawings. Anime's aren't supposed to be completely different from the manga art style wise. If someone on here thinks dragonball has horrible or unpleasant character designs then I'm surprised they even like the show.
Yamamuro's current designs don't match any of Toriyama's illustrations very well. Even then, the actual problem is with his designs. They've become progressively more stiff and lifeless over the years, just as his animation supervising has.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Ajay » Fri May 06, 2016 9:29 pm

kinisking wrote:C'mon Yamamuro's designs are far from horrible.
They really are.

I tweeted the other day that Yamamuro simultaneously my favourite and least favourite designer. His work back in the day was absolutely top tier:
Pin-sharp, super detailed, with great shading. Even his comedic drawings were on-point.

Nowadays, it's horrendous. The face shape is bubbly is all the wrong ways, the noses have lost their edge, and the shading is nonsensical. The front-on view of noses are totally absurd these days. They're just weird shaped holes in the middle of faces; a stark contrast to the ones found back in the day that actually made sense. The white highlights wouldn't bother me if they were actually used appropriately, but much like the regular shading, most of the time they don't even follow the shape of the face. Remember how the cheek used to dip in, and the chin would push out? Well now it's just a straight line up the side of the face. No form whatsoever. The eye shape for frowning is all off, too. They used to follow a curve and arch upwards, but now they're constantly flat. Leaves a lot of characters lacking striking expressions.
They're absolutely nothing like Toriyama's current artwork. Yamamuro's current designs horrible sub-par versions of his work from the Boo arc. He can't draw like he used to, so we're stuck with sub-par drawings from a man who's totally out of ideas. His main benefit is his understanding of martial arts choreography, but when he can't do anything interesting with that knowledge, just how useful is he?

He needs to go. We need a fresh new designer who can inject some life into this series' visuals. Don't get me wrong, I'm not foaming at the mouth and wishing for his death every time I watch the movies, I just wish we had something as strong and as interesting as we used to have.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Bansho64 » Fri May 06, 2016 10:17 pm

Has anyone noticed that Goku's hair been becoming smaller and smaller as the years passed? It used to be an undeniable defining trait thay stood out but nowadays it's pretty small. I can hardly notice it most of the time. I miss the old days when it was less stringy and it was really big. R.I.P Goku's big hair
Last edited by Bansho64 on Fri May 06, 2016 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri May 06, 2016 11:01 pm

My main issues with Yamamuro's current artstyle are really just the noses, especially from the front, from other angles they aren't the worst, but still not great, and his shading style. Even just removing the highlights improves the modern art a lot. Other than those two things I don't think he's quite as bad as people say, but I certainly wouldn't protest him being replaced as character designer by someone new or even a Super regular like Ishikawa or Karasawa (as long as they didn't stop being regular animation supervisors).
The biggest person I want replaced on the Super staff is the person in charge of the colors honestly, followed closely by Sumitomo.

Kinda a weird request, but does anyone have some images of Yashima's work in other series? I'm just curious.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by kinisking » Sat May 07, 2016 2:43 pm

Ajay wrote:
kinisking wrote:C'mon Yamamuro's designs are far from horrible.
They really are.

I tweeted the other day that Yamamuro simultaneously my favourite and least favourite designer. His work back in the day was absolutely top tier:
Pin-sharp, super detailed, with great shading. Even his comedic drawings were on-point.

Nowadays, it's horrendous. The face shape is bubbly is all the wrong ways, the noses have lost their edge, and the shading is nonsensical. The front-on view of noses are totally absurd these days. They're just weird shaped holes in the middle of faces; a stark contrast to the ones found back in the day that actually made sense. The white highlights wouldn't bother me if they were actually used appropriately, but much like the regular shading, most of the time they don't even follow the shape of the face. Remember how the cheek used to dip in, and the chin would push out? Well now it's just a straight line up the side of the face. No form whatsoever. The eye shape for frowning is all off, too. They used to follow a curve and arch upwards, but now they're constantly flat. Leaves a lot of characters lacking striking expressions.
They're absolutely nothing like Toriyama's current artwork. Yamamuro's current designs horrible sub-par versions of his work from the Boo arc. He can't draw like he used to, so we're stuck with sub-par drawings from a man who's totally out of ideas. His main benefit is his understanding of martial arts choreography, but when he can't do anything interesting with that knowledge, just how useful is he?

He needs to go. We need a fresh new designer who can inject some life into this series' visuals. Don't get me wrong, I'm not foaming at the mouth and wishing for his death every time I watch the movies, I just wish we had something as strong and as interesting as we used to have.
I was talking about toriyamas art style when he was drawing dragonBall which is what super should look like since it's the continuation of that. His new art style doesn't matter to me, even though I kind of like it. All I'm saying is yamamuro isn't horrible from an objective standpoint. You simply can't look at his drawings and say they're horrible. They're definitely not what they used to be but they aren't horrible.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Ajay » Sat May 07, 2016 4:02 pm

kinisking wrote:You simply can't look at his drawings and say they're horrible. They're definitely not what they used to be but they aren't horrible.
I absolutely can. Unappealing, lifeless, stiff, ugly, devoid of personality -- I could use a number of words to describe how I feel about them. I already did, in fact. I gave you a thorough breakdown of all the artistic issues I take with his work.

Don't get me wrong, he's not totally incapable. There have been a few instances where I've quite enjoyed his work, but for the most part, it's really not that great anymore. Not someone you want to lead your series.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Sat May 07, 2016 4:16 pm

I still can't get over super's skin textures. It looks like I'd have to wash my hands after touching ANY human/saiyan in the show. They all look so....slimy. Like they were just in some orgy or never wipe the damn grease from their faces! Disgusting! I said it before, I just can't get over it. And the faces always look weird.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by kinisking » Sat May 07, 2016 5:15 pm

Ajay wrote:
kinisking wrote:You simply can't look at his drawings and say they're horrible. They're definitely not what they used to be but they aren't horrible.
I absolutely can. Unappealing, lifeless, stiff, ugly, devoid of personality -- I could use a number of words to describe how I feel about them. I already did, in fact. I gave you a thorough breakdown of all the artistic issues I take with his work.

Don't get me wrong, he's not totally incapable. There have been a few instances where I've quite enjoyed his work, but for the most part, it's really not that great anymore. Not someone you want to lead your series.
It's just a matter of opinion i guess. I also don't want you to get me wrong, I'm not saying he's amazing, I just don't think he's horrible
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Ajay » Sat May 07, 2016 8:34 pm

Episode 42

Image

Animation Supervisors:
Shimanuki Masahiro & Takamura Kaoru.

Assistant Supervisor:
Hakamada Yuuji

Key Animators:
Inaba Jin, Shimanuki Masahiro, Nashizawa Takashi, Higashide Futoshi, Kiyoyama Shigetaka, Naito Mayumi, Takamura Kaoru, Hoshino Mamoru, Kato Yoshitaka, Tu Yeong-chaek, Ishii Tamaki, Sato Tomoko, and Studio Myu.

Nothing to say on this yet since I unfortunately got called away mid-episode. How was it? Worrying that an episode like this has two supervisors and an assistant, but I guess this has become the norm.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Black_Liger » Sat May 07, 2016 8:36 pm

Ajay wrote:Episode 42

<image coming soon>

Animation Supervisors:
Shimanuki Masahiro & Takamura Kaoru.

Assistant Supervisor:
Hakamada Yuuji

Key Animators:
Inaba Jin, Shimanuki Masahiro, Nashizawa Takashi, Higashide Futoshi, Kiyoyama Shigetaka, Naito Mayumi, Takamura Kaoru, Hoshino Mamoru, Kato Yoshitaka, Tu Yeong-chaek, Ishii Tamaki, Sato Tomoko, and Studio Myu.

Nothing to say on this yet since I unfortunately got called away mid-episode. How was it? Worrying that an episode like this has two supervisors and an assistant, but I guess this has become the norm.
On model for the most part (if not all of it), I really liked the coloring in this episode, Animation was normal with a little bit of nice looking explosions. The shading on Beerus' castle was great though!
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Sodhi » Sat May 07, 2016 8:38 pm

There was actually quite a lot of movement in this episode in the fight. Not expecting that from an episode like this.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Ajay » Sat May 07, 2016 9:14 pm

Just caught the episode. Ha, that was excellent. The action was far more appealing to me than a large majority of #39, so huge props to Shimanuki and the rest of his team. Phenomenal expressions throughout matched all of the comedy perfectly. Very impressed.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Sat May 07, 2016 9:50 pm

I certainly do think that Shimanuki and Tate are two only good regular supervisors for Super. Tate is great for action. Shimanuki can also pull off good action cuts, but he's also great for expressions. If it wasn't for Yamamuro's horrible designs, they would be much more appealing.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Sodhi » Sat May 07, 2016 10:00 pm

Tate and Shimanuki do not follow yamamuro's character design 100%. Especially not tate.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by Ajay » Sat May 07, 2016 10:02 pm

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:I certainly do think that Shimanuki and Tate are two only good regular supervisors for Super. Tate is great for action. Shimanuki can also pull off good action cuts, but he's also great for expressions. If it wasn't for Yamamuro's horrible designs, they would be much more appealing.
Karasawa's two for two so far; I've been really enjoying his work. Despite mostly adhering to the character designs, he goes a little more angular, and throws in the added details that I've sorely missed. Other than that, I definitely agree.

I will say that Shimanuki can be a little hit and miss for me. Sometimes he throws in shades of his Z work, but often his wide-faced One Piece traits rear their head, which I personally find quite unappealing. Full body shots can sometimes look a little chibi, too. When he's on point though, man, he's so good. I've yet to see him mess up non-human characters. That definitely seems to be his strong point.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #41]

Post by ArchedThunder » Sat May 07, 2016 10:08 pm

Really solid episode, though I wouldn't exactly say the fight was better than 39. Still fun though.
I'm liking what I see in the NEP as far as art goes.
Ajay wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:I certainly do think that Shimanuki and Tate are two only good regular supervisors for Super. Tate is great for action. Shimanuki can also pull off good action cuts, but he's also great for expressions. If it wasn't for Yamamuro's horrible designs, they would be much more appealing.
Karasawa's two for two so far; I've been really enjoying his work. Despite mostly adhering to the character designs, he goes a little more angular, and throws in the added details that I've sorely missed. Other than that, I definitely agree.

I will say that Shimanuki can be a little hit and miss for me. Sometimes he throws in shades of his Z work, but often his wide-faced One Piece traits rear their head, which I personally find quite unappealing. Full body shots can sometimes look a little chibi, too. When he's on point though, man, he's so good. I've yet to see him mess up non-human characters. That definitely seems to be his strong point.
The non human characters in general are usually drawn pretty well surprisingly, even Yashima can draw Beerus well.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #42]

Post by Ajay » Sat May 07, 2016 11:10 pm

Updated with the image. That raw took forever. Guh, night~
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