Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

Well, now we know officially that Trunks is god tier. Since he can sense god ki, while in ep 54 he couldnt. So clearly, he got allot stronger from episode 54. It wasnt simply done for the plot and then forgotten.

As for how characters compare:

Light Trunks
ssj blue Vegetto
Merged Zamasu
kk ssj blue Goku
ssj blue Goku(he did better than Trunks and Vegeta)
Black Rose/ssj blue Vegeta
Hit/kkx10 ssj blue Goku(u6 saga)
Super Trunks
Future Zamasu/ssj2 Trunks(rage boost+ Vegeta training)/Golden Freeza/u6 ssj blue

That is how i see it.

I noticed the Trunks thing too... idk what to think. I just assumed it was more bad/inconsistent writing

[Noah]

This episode was good poewr level wise.

Really? How so?

Super Trunks > SSGSS Vegetto > Merged Zamasu > Goku SSGSS > Merged Zamasu

[AvatarReiko]

How powerful do you guys put current base Vegito? Considering that he jumped straight to SSJ Blue, he must be a fair bit weaker than Zamasu Black.

I'd say he would have to be somewhere between Golden Frieza and SSJ Blue Vegeta(post-ROSAT)

[Bullza]

And Black may have started weaker since he was learning Goku's body, but he knew that Goku's body overall could grow to be much stronger than his original body.

I dunno that kinda seems like a big assumption too. The idea behind the story was that Zamasu was supposed to be sorta envious of Goku's power so he stole it for himself. For Future Zamasu to be even stronger kinda defeats the purpose. Like someone else said Black was supposed to be the powerful one while Zamasu was the invincible one.

Whether Future Zamasu did worthwhile damage isn't the issue.

Well I'm looking through it now and let's see what we've got...

Ep 57 - Fights Goku alone very briefly and gets one hit in. Fights Trunks and would have killed him under normal circumstances.

Ep 61 - Gets one hit in on Goku only because of Black. Tanks several attacks and combines his energy attacks with Black (both things he does across several episodes). He gets stomped by Goku once he gets angry.

Ep 62 - One punch from Super Trunks is enough to put Zamasu to the ground while Black is able to hold his own against him.

Ep 63 - While Trunks had to use his Super form to fight against Black he was content without it for Zamasu (that's still how I see it) and he was about ready to blow him up before Black stabbed him. Gets one hit in on Vegeta who wasn't paying attention to him moments before Goku beats him around.

And that's about it. Surprisingly he has a pretty poor showing looking back on it. He doesn't really do that much, his best attacks are when he combines it with Black. He's able to keep up with the Super Saiyan Blue speed and that's really his best feat.

So if Goku at max is a 10, Future Zamasu has to be at least an 8.5. Strong enough to keep up, but not strong enough to beat Goku outside of his immorality.

I wouldn't be that sure of the series being consistent enough for that. He just seems to be on the same general speed level as pretty much all the others involved. He doesn't get that many hits in on anyone, never does any significant damage to anyone and only seems to get by because of his immortality. Take that away and I wouldn't even put him as high as SSJ2 Trunks who by that point may be up to or past SSJ3 Goku.

If his power is similar to the present Zamasu and I don't see why not because nobody commented otherwise then him being weaker than a SSJ2 or SSJ3 would be understandable. His speed is the only thing that puts him at that level but we don't know how much faster Blue is than SSJ3 really.

How powerful do you guys put current base Vegito? Considering that he jumped straight to SSJ Blue, he must be a fair bit weaker than Zamasu Black.

I'd agree it'd likely be weaker than Zamasu or he wouldn't have needed to transform I suppose. How did Base Vegito in the Buu saga compare to Goku including all his forms? If old Base Vegito was stronger than Super Saiyan Goku then I'd guess new Base Vegito would be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku. If old Base Vegito was stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku then I'd guess new Base Vegito would be than stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku using the Kaioken from this episode and so on.

[HeroR]

And Black may have started weaker since he was learning Goku's body, but he knew that Goku's body overall could grow to be much stronger than his original body.

I dunno that kinda seems like a big assumption too. The idea behind the story was that Zamasu was supposed to be sorta envious of Goku's power so he stole it for himself. For Future Zamasu to be even stronger kinda defeats the purpose. Like someone else said Black was supposed to be the powerful one while Zamasu was the invincible one.

Whether Future Zamasu did worthwhile damage isn't the issue.

Well I'm looking through it now and let's see what we've got...

Ep 57 - Fights Goku alone very briefly and gets one hit in. Fights Trunks and would have killed him under normal circumstances.

Ep 61 - Gets one hit in on Goku only because of Black. Tanks several attacks and combines his energy attacks with Black (both things he does across several episodes). He gets stomped by Goku once he gets angry.

Ep 62 - One punch from Super Trunks is enough to put Zamasu to the ground while Black is able to hold his own against him.

Ep 63 - While Trunks had to use his Super form to fight against Black he was content without it for Zamasu (that's still how I see it) and he was about ready to blow him up before Black stabbed him. Gets one hit in on Vegeta who wasn't paying attention to him moments before Goku beats him around.

And that's about it. Surprisingly he has a pretty poor showing looking back on it. He doesn't really do that much, his best attacks are when he combines it with Black. He's able to keep up with the Super Saiyan Blue speed and that's really his best feat.

So if Goku at max is a 10, Future Zamasu has to be at least an 8.5. Strong enough to keep up, but not strong enough to beat Goku outside of his immorality.

I wouldn't be that sure of the series being consistent enough for that. He just seems to be on the same general speed level as pretty much all the others involved. He doesn't get that many hits in on anyone, never does any significant damage to anyone and only seems to get by because of his immortality. Take that away and I wouldn't even put him as high as SSJ2 Trunks who by that point may be up to or past SSJ3 Goku.

If his power is similar to the present Zamasu and I don't see why not because nobody commented otherwise then him being weaker than a SSJ2 or SSJ3 would be understandable. His speed is the only thing that puts him at that level but we don't know how much faster Blue is than SSJ3 really.

How powerful do you guys put current base Vegito? Considering that he jumped straight to SSJ Blue, he must be a fair bit weaker than Zamasu Black.

I'd agree it'd likely be weaker than Zamasu or he wouldn't have needed to transform I suppose. How did Base Vegito in the Buu saga compare to Goku including all his forms? If old Base Vegito was stronger than Super Saiyan Goku then I'd guess new Base Vegito would be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku. If old Base Vegito was stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku then I'd guess new Base Vegito would be than stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku using the Kaioken from this episode and so on.

It's not a bad assumption to make. Black had Goku's body for years, and yet he was only up to Super Saiyan 3 and appeared to be unable to transformed until recently. So he could have started weaker simply because he was learning Goku's body. Future Zamasu being stronger isn't hard to believe since he's older and Black knew that Goku had in him to be much stronger than he ever could in his godly body, so he took it.

Ep 57 - He drops his guard all the time, which has been stated by Trunks and Goku all the time.

Ep 61 - Raged boost surpassed Black until he power up. So this isn't the same Goku from Ep 57.

Ep 62 - The only thing that proves is that Super Trunks with a rage boost is stronger than Zamasu, who was only little weaker than Black at the time.

Ep 63 - He was still Super Trunks. I am not sure you keep saying he wasn't. If he was only as Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would have blocked all his attacks with his fingers.

Ep 64 - Black was more than certain that Zamasu would kill Future Trunks. So Black thought that Zamasu was within the same league of Trunks' super form.

Again, if he was only as strong as Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, Goku should have finger blocked him at his max power. And power and speed tend to go hand-and-hand unless stated otherwise.

[Legion]

After this episode i have no doubt anymore that the power levels are useless and that do not exist.

Whis>Beerus>Trunks>Vegetto>merged Zamasu>Goku ssjbkkx10>merged Zamasu.

Ooook.

[Alee9977]

Everything is ok until we have to find out Trunks power, that transformation seems to be really powerful and it doesn't have a name yet (after all we saw maybe Super Saiyan Hope, lol), but what we know is that everytime Trunks talks about humans he has a rage boost so...
Also, I'd assume that before everybody lends Trunks their energy he had 75% normal ki and 25% God ki, after he receives all the energy incluiding Goku and Vegeta's maybe 65% normal ki and 35% god ki or so, anyways, I understand that Trunks can be able to fight Merged Zamasu because of the rage boost for a little, and then he receives everybody's energy so it could make sense that he is equal or just a little less stronger than Zamasu.

So for me it is like this:
Vegetto
Merged Zamasu
Trunks with his new form with everybody's energy
Trunks with his new form
Vegeta
Goku

[MagmonKai]

To be completely honest, I feel as if Beerus is still stronger then SSB Vegtio and merged Zamazu after this episode- purely based upon feats shown.

Man, we are in for some amazing episodes coming up.

I hate to admit this too, but I didn't get an overwhelmingly powerful sensation coming from Vegito like Beerus does. Man, what does it take to over throw this cat-god?

[TheUltimateNinja]

I don't see how the new episode implies Trunks is above Vegetto, Zamasu was most likely majorly weakened after getting his ass kicked by Vegetto.
My power ratings:
SSBlue Vegetto: 600
Corrupted Zamasu (Max power): 540
Corrupted Zamasu (Light of Justice): 360
Spirit Trunks: 128
Corrupted Zamasu (Weakened): 120
SSBlue Goku (Kaioken): 72
Corrupted Zamasu (Initial): 54
SSBlue Goku: 36
Merged Zamasu (Initial): 36
SSBlue Vegeta: 24
SSRose Black: 24
Super Trunks: 16
Future Zamasu: 12

[Marlowe89]

Base Black was on par with that so for Zamasu to be stronger than that kinda defeats the whole purpose behind Zamasu stealing Goku's body to gain strenght.

Future Zamasu is indeed stronger than that from the simple fact that he was able to keep up with Super Saiyan Blue Goku while Present Zamasu was ridiculed by Beerus as being child's play compared to Super Saiyan Goku. Goku Black also needed Super Saiyan Rose to demonstrate the gap in power between himself and Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, which implies that base Black was either weaker than, equal to, or at most just barely stronger than Future Zamasu.

You say it defeats the whole purpose of Zamasu stealing Goku's body, but that's not really true. It's clear that Zamasu needed Goku's body more for its attributes and potential (Black constantly cites the body's power growing after every fight) rather than the initial level of strength Zamasu would reach after first obtaining it. After all, it's implied that Black was still just getting accustomed to Goku's body from the beginning of the arc right up until Goku and Vegeta fought him in the future.

Nothing has changed the portrayal of these characters here. Zamasu still represents immortality while Black still represents power, and that's because Black is far above Zamasu when using Super Saiyan Rose. That form was even used for their fusion.

[Doctor.]

Pretty simple for me.

SSB Vegetto
Merged Zamasu, full power
Genkidama Trunks
Corrupted Zamasu, in his giant form, after fighting Vegetto
SSB Goku/Vegeta/Super Trunks

[ekrolo2]

Trunks is definitely God Tier if he can sense Vegetto's power.

[Sora Saiyan]

How can people really think that Trunks is stronger than Vegetto in this episode? The attack potency was greater than what Vegetto has shown, but if you put that sword in Vegettos hands he would end it much faster than Trunks. Also, if you were to take that sword off Trunks I'd say he most definitely would've been defeated by Zamasu. He didn't seem overwhelmingly powerful at all, when compared to Vegetto vs Zamasu (post spirit sword) he looks massively weak. In fact I'd say it was only because of his sword that Trunks managed to break through.

[Helios518]

Pretty simple for me.

SSB Vegetto
Merged Zamasu, full power
Genkidama Trunks
Corrupted Zamasu, in his giant form, after fighting Vegetto
SSB Goku/Vegeta/Super Trunks

Why do you have Corrupted Zamasu lower than Merged Zamasu? Gowasu said that "it's going to take greater power than before to defeat him" talking about the Corrupted Zamasu.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwfQAU6Pa4

[Doctor.]

Pretty simple for me.

SSB Vegetto
Merged Zamasu, full power
Genkidama Trunks
Corrupted Zamasu, in his giant form, after fighting Vegetto
SSB Goku/Vegeta/Super Trunks

Why do you have Corrupted Zamasu lower than Merged Zamasu? Gowasu said that "it's going to take greater power than before to defeat him" talking about the Corrupted Zamasu.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwfQAU6Pa4

I said Corrupted Zamasu in his giant form, after fighting Vegetto. The fact that he was so slow in that form, wasn't getting one hit on Vegetto whilst before he was, and was struggling to keep with Trunks does tell me he's weaker when he gets bigger. That scene you posted I would class as Merged Zamasu at his full power.

[HeroR]

After this episode i have no doubt anymore that the power levels are useless and that do not exist.

Whis>Beerus>Trunks>Vegetto>merged Zamasu>Goku ssjbkkx10>merged Zamasu.

Ooook.

Vegetto weakened Merged Zamasu and Trunks was enhanced with a Spirit Bomb.

Base Black was on par with that so for Zamasu to be stronger than that kinda defeats the whole purpose behind Zamasu stealing Goku's body to gain strenght.

Future Zamasu is indeed stronger than that from the simple fact that he was able to keep up with Super Saiyan Blue Goku while Present Zamasu was ridiculed by Beerus as being child's play compared to Super Saiyan Goku. Goku Black also needed Super Saiyan Rose to demonstrate the gap in power between himself and Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, which implies that base Black was either weaker than, equal to, or at most just barely stronger than Future Zamasu.

You say it defeats the whole purpose of Zamasu stealing Goku's body, but that's not really true. It's clear that Zamasu needed Goku's body more for its attributes and potential (Black constantly cites the body's power growing after every fight) rather than the initial level of strength Zamasu would reach after first obtaining it. After all, it's implied that Black was still just getting accustomed to Goku's body from the beginning of the arc right up until Goku and Vegeta fought him in the future.

Nothing has changed the portrayal of these characters here. Zamasu still represents immortality while Black still represents power, and that's because Black is far above Zamasu when using Super Saiyan Rose. That form was even used for their fusion.

To be clear, Present Zamasu fought Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

[Marlowe89]

To be clear, Present Zamasu fought Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

I know, but the dialogue called it Super Saiyan so I'm not entirely sure what Toei intended during that scene. I don't think it particularly matters either way.

[buutenks]

I must say, it is amusing watching you all try to make sense of this lol.

[Khin]

To be clear, Present Zamasu fought Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

I know, but the dialogue called it Super Saiyan so I'm not entirely sure what Toei intended during that scene. I don't think it particularly matters either way.

They always called it as just ''Super Saiyan''. The only person I can recall calling it ''Super Saiyan 2'' is the person who named it himself - Goku.

[Zamasu55]

SsjB Vegito was about to beat Merged Zamasu anyway. But it wasn't a stomping, it was almost an even match. I'd say the difference between SsjB Vegito and Merged Zamasu is about the same as Ssj Goku (Cell games) and Perfect Cell (full power).