Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[BlueBasilisk]

Kale's Berserk form and Broly's Super Saiyan (Full Power) are virtually identical from what we have seen of them. It's the other two forms they have that differ. Kale has green-haired versions of Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2. Broly has his Wrathful form and the white-eyed Super Saiyan, both of which are new to this incarnation. There could be any number of explanations for why this is the case.

Anime Kale is WAY weaker than Broli even in base and U6 saiyans are supposed to be "more evolved", so if this was identical then how come the power difference is that large?

Because Broly is much older than Kale and has apparently been trained by Paragus to be a warrior and the instrument of his revenge while Kale is a hooligan hanging out in a gang who has no faith in her own strength and doesn't seem to train.

[CTAkuma]

You’re arguing the wrong things here man.

The argument is that Kale’s Berserk and Broly’s Full Power are the same form. And here you are bringing up either unrelated info like the adaptive ability of Broly which has nothing to do with his Full Power form or stuff I’ve already debunked multiple times like them calling the form Full Power or Berserk doesn’t mean they’re different.
And again, I know what form you’re talking about with Broly. He has an SSJ form where he isn’t buffed up but doesn’t have pupils either. Kale in the manga has the same form so that just helps my point again.

Nope because the manga and anime continuity cannot be directly conjoined or compared reasonably since there are tons of changes, your points prove nothing if you use comparisements between the two. Infact it even contradicts your own statements since how Kale's Berserk form was shown in the mange and anime to be different and not even working the same way . Also what i wanted to prove is that Broli is radically different in structure to Kale, thus it is only logical that even his bulked up form has changes like strength for example.

Full Power is its official name, unless they say Kale's form is also full power then its not the same

They are only visually similar, everything else is different. Also no my friend i'm talking about buffed up LSS Broli without armor but with yellow hair instead of green, he had one promo image where it was shown(Not the normal one in the character sheets)

[FortuneSSJ]

Broly's full power form being triggered by sorrow is interesting and mimics Kale's berserk form in the anime.
The first time Kale transformed she was crying because she felt useless and the first time in ToP it was also because of sadness. I hope in Broly's case the trigger is caused by something more tragic though.

[AnimeNation101]

You’re arguing the wrong things here man.

The argument is that Kale’s Berserk and Broly’s Full Power are the same form. And here you are bringing up either unrelated info like the adaptive ability of Broly which has nothing to do with his Full Power form or stuff I’ve already debunked multiple times like them calling the form Full Power or Berserk doesn’t mean they’re different.
And again, I know what form you’re talking about with Broly. He has an SSJ form where he isn’t buffed up but doesn’t have pupils either. Kale in the manga has the same form so that just helps my point again.

Nope because the manga and anime continuity cannot be directly conjoined or compared reasonably since there are tons of changes, your points prove nothing if you use comparisements between the two. Infact it even contradicts your own statements since how Kale's Berserk form was shown in the mange and anime to be different and not even working the same way . Also what i wanted to prove is that Broli is radically different in structure to Kale, thus it is only logical that even his bulked up form has changes like strength for example.

Full Power is its official name, unless they say Kale's form is also full power then its not the same

They are only visually similar, everything else is different. Also no my friend i'm talking about buffed up LSS Broli without armor but with yellow hair instead of green, he had one promo image where it was shown(Not the normal one in the character sheets)

Thats what people said about SSGod Vegeta. “The manga and anime aren’t conjoined, blah blah blah”. But here we are with SSGod Vegeta in anime DBS. If a character can do a form in the manga, then they can do it in the anime. Face facts bro. Nothing you say can disprove that.

Again, calling Broly’s form “Full Power” because its him at full power and Kale’s form “Berserk” because she goes berserk doesn’t mean they aren’t the same form.

Again, i already explained the yellow hair thing.

Even the forms trigger the same way.

And again, if you wanna be a nitpicker, you could chalk the small differnces up to Kale and Broly having evolved differently.


Hell, some else even debunked what you thought was a good point that Kale in the form is weaker than Broly in the form.

For the 3rd time, I’ve debunked exactly what you’ve been repeating and what I’ve been debunking.

Are we done here?

[CTAkuma]

Thats what people said about SSGod Vegeta. “The manga and anime aren’t conjoined, blah blah blah”. But here we are with SSGod Vegeta in anime DBS. If a character can do a form in the manga, then they can do it in the anime. Face facts bro. Nothing you say can disprove that.

Cough SSBKKx20, SSRage, Blue evolution cough

Again, calling Broly’s form “Full Power” because its him at full power and Kale’s form “Berserk” because she goes berserk doesn’t mean they aren’t the same form.

They are not the same, if they were they would have labeled them accordingly but they didn't.

Again, i already explained the yellow hair thing.

Kale doesn't have LSS with yellow hair, not in the manga, not in the anime. Only old and new Broli have those forms

For the 3rd time, I’ve debunked exactly what you’ve been repeating and what I’ve been debunking.

You didn't really debunk anything other than use fallicious reasoning to think that manga and anime can be used in a discussion when talking about characters and forms. You debunked yourself basically since anime Kale and manga Kale are radically different in their forms

Are we done here?

Don't really care, if you want

[AnimeNation101]

Thats what people said about SSGod Vegeta. “The manga and anime aren’t conjoined, blah blah blah”. But here we are with SSGod Vegeta in anime DBS. If a character can do a form in the manga, then they can do it in the anime. Face facts bro. Nothing you say can disprove that.

Cough SSBKKx20, SSRage, Blue evolution cough

Again, calling Broly’s form “Full Power” because its him at full power and Kale’s form “Berserk” because she goes berserk doesn’t mean they aren’t the same form.

They are not the same, if they were they would have labeled them accordingly but they didn't.

Again, i already explained the yellow hair thing.

Kale doesn't have LSS with yellow hair, not in the manga, not in the anime. Only old and new Broli have those forms

For the 3rd time, I’ve debunked exactly what you’ve been repeating and what I’ve been debunking.

You didn't really debunk anything other than use fallicious reasoning to think that manga and anime can be used in a discussion when talking about characters and forms. You debunked yourself basically since anime Kale and manga Kale are radically different in their forms

Are we done here?

Don't really care, if you want

Yeah, I'm not gonna debunk this all again. But i do find it funny that you leave out my point that Kale and Broly evolved differently. Lol

[CTAkuma]

Yeah, I'm not gonna debunk this all again. But i do find it funny that you leave out my point that Kale and Broly evolved differently. Lol

Because i don't disagree with it?

[PFM18]

Thats what people said about SSGod Vegeta. “The manga and anime aren’t conjoined, blah blah blah”. But here we are with SSGod Vegeta in anime DBS. If a character can do a form in the manga, then they can do it in the anime. Face facts bro. Nothing you say can disprove that.

I mean this is just untrue. The manga and anime are each their own continuity and just because a form exists in one doesn't mean it exists in the other. As already mentioned, SSBE, SSJ Rage, and SSBKKx20 all exist in the anime but not the manga. The fact that Vegeta has SSG in this movie isn't at all indication that this is somehow changed.

[AnimeNation101]

Yeah, I'm not gonna debunk this all again. But i do find it funny that you leave out my point that Kale and Broly evolved differently. Lol

Because i don't disagree with it?

I mean, you responded to other points i didn’t agree with. So its as if you had nothing you can say that can prove my point invalid that was the only thing to didn’t respond to. But then again, you didn’t have real evidence for the first point either. In fact, mentioning SSBKK, Evolution, and Rage was just random considering my point was that any form a character can unlock and use in the manga they can use in the anime and vice-versa. All the forms you named could be unlocked and used by the Goku, Vegeta, and trunks in the manga. And SSGod proved that. Your second point was just restating what i debunked before. Etc.

Really i found all your responses funny but the lack of a response for that point was what caught my eye the most.

[zarmack]

Thats what people said about SSGod Vegeta. “The manga and anime aren’t conjoined, blah blah blah”. But here we are with SSGod Vegeta in anime DBS. If a character can do a form in the manga, then they can do it in the anime. Face facts bro. Nothing you say can disprove that.

I mean this is just untrue. The manga and anime are each their own continuity and just because a form exists in one doesn't mean it exists in the other. As already mentioned, SSBE, SSJ Rage, and SSBKKx20 all exist in the anime but not the manga. The fact that Vegeta has SSG in this movie isn't at all indication that this is somehow changed.

And there was absolutely no indication that Vegeta couldn't do SSG in the DBS Anime anyway.

[AnimeNation101]

Thats what people said about SSGod Vegeta. “The manga and anime aren’t conjoined, blah blah blah”. But here we are with SSGod Vegeta in anime DBS. If a character can do a form in the manga, then they can do it in the anime. Face facts bro. Nothing you say can disprove that.

I mean this is just untrue. The manga and anime are each their own continuity and just because a form exists in one doesn't mean it exists in the other. As already mentioned, SSBE, SSJ Rage, and SSBKKx20 all exist in the anime but not the manga. The fact that Vegeta has SSG in this movie isn't at all indication that this is somehow changed.

The anime and manga are 2 sub-conitunities of the main series DBS. As such, forms that happen in one continuity are naturally possible to unlock in the other continuity. Just because they aren’t used doesn’t mean they can’t be.

[PFM18]

Thats what people said about SSGod Vegeta. “The manga and anime aren’t conjoined, blah blah blah”. But here we are with SSGod Vegeta in anime DBS. If a character can do a form in the manga, then they can do it in the anime. Face facts bro. Nothing you say can disprove that.

I mean this is just untrue. The manga and anime are each their own continuity and just because a form exists in one doesn't mean it exists in the other. As already mentioned, SSBE, SSJ Rage, and SSBKKx20 all exist in the anime but not the manga. The fact that Vegeta has SSG in this movie isn't at all indication that this is somehow changed.

And there was absolutely no indication that Vegeta couldn't do SSG in the DBS Anime anyway.

....exactly. The way SSB is described it certainly made it sound like knowing SSG was a prerequisite for learning SSB.

[CTAkuma]

Yeah, I'm not gonna debunk this all again. But i do find it funny that you leave out my point that Kale and Broly evolved differently. Lol

Because i don't disagree with it?

I mean, you responded to other points i didn’t agree with. So its as if you had nothing you can say that can prove my point invalid that was the only thing to didn’t respond to. But then again, you didn’t have real evidence for the first point either. In fact, mentioning SSBKK, Evolution, and Rage was just random considering my point was that any form a character can unlock and use in the manga they can use in the anime and vice-versa. All the forms you named could be unlocked and used by the Goku, Vegeta, and trunks in the manga. And SSGod proved that. Your second point was just restating what i debunked before. Etc.

Really i found all your responses funny but the lack of a response for that point was what caught my eye the most.

Nice that you strawman my arguments too. Also if we are talking about "every form appears in the anime too" then how come CSSB isn't in the anime? Also no the forms i listed are not in the manga. The only thing i agree with your points is that they evolved differently, but even that is up in the air.

[AnimeNation101]

I mean this is just untrue. The manga and anime are each their own continuity and just because a form exists in one doesn't mean it exists in the other. As already mentioned, SSBE, SSJ Rage, and SSBKKx20 all exist in the anime but not the manga. The fact that Vegeta has SSG in this movie isn't at all indication that this is somehow changed.

And there was absolutely no indication that Vegeta couldn't do SSG in the DBS Anime anyway.

....exactly. The way SSB is described it certainly made it sound like knowing SSG was a prerequisite for learning SSB.

Exactly. Just as Mastered Blue can be used in the anime since its just SSB but mastered. And just like how SSRage can be used in the manga since, as far as we’ve been told, its just a rage transformation. And even if you say it was gained by Trunks in the anime through training with Vegeta, Trunks in the manga did the same. And just like how SSBKK can be used in the manga since its literally just using kaioken while in Blue. And SSBE is Vegeta “breaking through is shell” which is code words for him powering up even more. So naturally, manga Vegeta should be able to do the same and achieve the same.

[PFM18]

And there was absolutely no indication that Vegeta couldn't do SSG in the DBS Anime anyway.

....exactly. The way SSB is described it certainly made it sound like knowing SSG was a prerequisite for learning SSB.

Exactly. Just as Mastered Blue can be used in the anime since its just SSB but mastered. And just like how SSRage can be used in the manga since, as far as we’ve been told, its just a rage transformation. And even if you say it was gained by Trunks in the anime through training with Vegeta, Trunks in the manga did the same. And just like how SSBKK can be used in the manga since its literally just using kaioken while in Blue. And SSBE is Vegeta “breaking through is shell” which is code words for him powering up even more. So naturally, manga Vegeta should be able to do the same and achieve the same.

No, Mastered SSB does not exist in the anime. Mastered SSB is simply an extension of the idea of SSB's extremely intense stamina drain, in the anime, the stamina drain isn't that severe, so an entirely new form designed to mitigate the stamina drain doesn't' make much sense. In the manga, Vegeta used SSB for like 10 seconds against Cabba and lost 90% of his power because of the retardedintense stamina drain associated with the form. Such a thing didn't happen in the anime.

[RedHeat]

Would it at all make sense that the reason Broly and Kale's transformations are different yet the same (ignorning the fact that U6 Saiyan's evolved differently), is because of gender? Seems stupid at first glace since there's nothing different about normal SSJ when a male or female has it, but the green-haired form hasn't been fully explained.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Kale and Broly are the same thing. Berserker is just an adjective used to describe her, nobody ever said she was "super saiyan berserk". Beerus and others said she was "going berserk" aka going out of control. Vegeta in both versions just called her a super saiyan, which is the same as broly, just a special mutant variation. LSSJ and SS berserk are just toei terms that have nothing to do with toriyama and what he calls broly or sees kale as

[PFM18]

Kale and Broly are the same thing. Berserker is just an adjective used to describe her, nobody ever said she was "super saiyan berserk". Beerus and others said she was "going berserk" aka going out of control. Vegeta in both versions just called her a super saiyan, which is the same as broly, just a special mutant variation. LSSJ and SS berserk are just toei terms that have nothing to do with toriyama and what he calls broly or sees kale as

We won't know for certain until the movie. I believe official material in other areas outside of the anime did call her "Super Saiyan Berserk" though.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Kale and Broly are the same thing. Berserker is just an adjective used to describe her, nobody ever said she was "super saiyan berserk". Beerus and others said she was "going berserk" aka going out of control. Vegeta in both versions just called her a super saiyan, which is the same as broly, just a special mutant variation. LSSJ and SS berserk are just toei terms that have nothing to do with toriyama and what he calls broly or sees kale as

We won't know for certain until the movie. I believe official material in other areas outside of the anime did call her "Super Saiyan Berserk" though.

The NEP for episode 114 also called her "legendary super saiyan" which flat out contradicts the Z anime since thats exactly what goku was described as. Toei trying to shove broly movie references doesn't mean thats how Toriyama sees Kale and Broly, Hence why broly's green hair form is just super saiyan (full power) and not LSSJ

[AnimeNation101]

....exactly. The way SSB is described it certainly made it sound like knowing SSG was a prerequisite for learning SSB.

Exactly. Just as Mastered Blue can be used in the anime since its just SSB but mastered. And just like how SSRage can be used in the manga since, as far as we’ve been told, its just a rage transformation. And even if you say it was gained by Trunks in the anime through training with Vegeta, Trunks in the manga did the same. And just like how SSBKK can be used in the manga since its literally just using kaioken while in Blue. And SSBE is Vegeta “breaking through is shell” which is code words for him powering up even more. So naturally, manga Vegeta should be able to do the same and achieve the same.

No, Mastered SSB does not exist in the anime. Mastered SSB is simply an extension of the idea of SSB's extremely intense stamina drain, in the anime, the stamina drain isn't that severe, so an entirely new form designed to mitigate the stamina drain doesn't' make much sense. In the manga, Vegeta used SSB for like 10 seconds against Cabba and lost 90% of his power because of the retardedintense stamina drain associated with the form. Such a thing didn't happen in the anime.

That explanation is nice and all but it doesn’t debunk that Mastered SSB can happen in the anime. You talk about stamina drain of ssb and all that but none of this info is evidence that Mastered SSB can’t happen in the anime. Infact, i dont get whats your point.

Mastered SSB: As a result of this training, he developed the technique of containing and harnessing his radiating aura inside his body through intense, continuous concentration and uses it to bolster his power. With this method, Goku had achieved mastery over the form, allowing him to realize the full potential of Super Saiyan Blue.

Why would differnt stamina related things for SSB between the anime and manga have anything to do with whether MSSB can happen in the anime or not. Because, going off of this description, this doesn’t sound like something that’s impossible for Goku in the anime to do.