"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Totamo]

Do people believe that Toyotaro might end this arc and start the new arc in the same chapter next month?

That'll be a lot of pages, but I hope he does, I'm excited for the upcoming US arc.

So you think Black will get Rose, fight Goku, power up, fused with Future Zamasu, Goku and Vegeta fused, the timeline gets destroy, and Trunks leaves all in one chapter?

I don't think vegito is in the manga, he is going to have to take out some things that was in the anime for his prediction to come true.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Vegetto never fit well in the anime version of the arc to begin with, losing him here wouldn't hurt a thing. Also, these chapters are 40 pages, that's a lot. There's plenty of time to have at least Rose and Merged Zamasu. I suspect that February will be a transitional chapter, including the Zeno button and the setup for the tournament. After that, Toyotaro will rush through or cut out the less useful fights that the anime will inevitably include, so the manga will be ahead again. That's my standing prediction atm.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I don't think vegito is in the manga, he is going to have to take out some things that was in the anime for his prediction to come true.

Toyotaro's statement is already technically true. He didn't say that the manga chapters in the magazine would skip ahead of the anime (though it could). He just said that he would be ahead of the anime soon and would be sending materials to the anime staff again,...and he is, even if the chapters aren't publically released. He's already got at least some of the Universe Survival Arc underway for what was used in the PV at Jump Festa, while the anime staff should still have a little bit more to go before production starts on that content (as episodes).

[TheMikado]

I don't think vegito is in the manga, he is going to have to take out some things that was in the anime for his prediction to come true.

Toyotaro's statement is already technically true. He didn't say that the manga chapters in the magazine would skip ahead of the anime (though it could). He just said that he would be ahead of the anime soon and would be sending materials to the anime staff again,...and he is, even if the chapters aren't publically released. He's already got at least some of the Universe Survival Arc underway for what was used in the PV at Jump Festa, while the anime staff should still have a little bit more to go before production starts on that content.

That's an excellent point. Everyone assumes he was referring to the monthly publication but be may have meant his own internal work will be ahead of the anime and they will be following his lead, which I really like the idea of.

[kidhero1000]

As much as i find Toyotaro a mediocre (at best) mangaka, i don't think he's entirely to blame, as he's probably being told to make it deliberately different. I mean, he's just "that guy drawing the promotional manga" in the big scheme of things, and might be struggling with all the requests and time restraints.

I'll concede to that line of thought. But even so when it comes to the final major battle of the story arc, he tends to shit the bed. Whether it's him deciding to put his own spin on things to be hip/different, or not.

Have you got an example of him "shitting the bed"?

This battle, final battle of last arc, and BOG's ending. All Blah

[Doctor.]

Jesus, there's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime. Toyotaro knows how to portray Goku and his art is nice at times (even if his characters have a whole lot of horse-face going on), but that's about it.

[zamasu121]

I'm pretty sure we have not seen black kill anybody yet in the manga

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Jesus, there's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime. Toyotaro knows how to portray Goku and his art is nice at times (even if his characters have a whole lot of horse-face going on), but that's about it.

We're pretty sure that Rose is coming next chapter, and probably merged Zamasu too. There's no tension in the manga now in the same way there was no tension from the time Trunks came back episode 59 to the very end of episode 65 of the anime arc, and several episodes sprinkled throughout afterwards, too. This isn't really a Toyotaro problem, it's a problem with the story in general, and the rushed schedule is exasperating it. Toyotaro has his deficiencies, but tension-building isn't one of them, as we've seen with some of his previous work.

I'm pretty sure we have not seen black kill anybody yet in the manga

Nope. Not that it's necessary, but it would be a nice touch.

[Doctor.]

Toyotaro has his deficiencies, but tension-building isn't one of them, as we've seen with some of his previous work.

The anime never had a problem with tension whenever they were in the future. Every time they were in the future, we knew they were outmatched.

How, when the U6 tournament was the same way, with Hit constantly getting outplayed by Goku at every turn?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Toyotaro has his deficiencies, but tension-building isn't one of them, as we've seen with some of his previous work.

How, when the U6 tournament was the same way, with Hit constantly getting outplayed by Goku at every turn?

I'm talking pre-DBS. His fan works were good at tension, his RoF was about as good as that arc could have been. There are probably more, but I've only glanced at Toyotaro's other comics.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm pretty sure we have not seen black kill anybody yet in the manga

Nope. Not that it's necessary, but it would be a nice touch.

Honestly, if we're supposed to buy that Black is an evil force to be reckoned with, an illustration of him murdering someone really puts over that point. We've seen every major villain kill at least one character on screen in the manga. Hell, even secondary villains like Staff Officer Black, Mercenary Tao, Nappa, Zarbon and Dodoria have killed characters on screen to emphasis just how much of menace they can be. I don't buy that all in Goku Black's case in the manga. He seems the most least intimidating villain Dragon Ball has produced so far. And that's not even taking into account the absolute ass-whooping he received from SSJ2 Vegeta.

[dbzfan7]

Toyotaro has his deficiencies, but tension-building isn't one of them, as we've seen with some of his previous work.

The anime never had a problem with tension whenever they were in the future. Every time they were in the future, we knew they were outmatched.

Nah they'd just escape for the twentieth time in the anime

[Araki]

Jesus, there's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime. Toyotaro knows how to portray Goku and his art is nice at times (even if his characters have a whole lot of horse-face going on), but that's about it.

The manga feels like it's just checking boxes to get to the end. Toyotaro just isn't good connecting the dots from Toriyama's outline and transforming it into a complete story. His narrative as an author is seriously lacking.

As a result, everything that made the arc unique, that made the villains different and imposing, is missing here. It's all dull and generic.

[Doctor.]

Jesus, there's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime. Toyotaro knows how to portray Goku and his art is nice at times (even if his characters have a whole lot of horse-face going on), but that's about it.

The manga feels like it's just checking boxes to get to the end. Toyotaro just isn't good connecting the dots from Toriyama's outline and transforming it into a complete story. His narrative as an author is seriously lacking.

As a result, everything that made the arc unique, that made the villains different and imposing, is missing here. It's all dull and generic.

Toyotaro seems to have completely missed the point of Zamasu, as well. Zamasu being so pretentious was something that the characters and the writers themselves openly mocked. Here, all these speeches and rambles by Zamasu and Black are being treated with serious responses.

[HeroR]

Jesus, there's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime. Toyotaro knows how to portray Goku and his art is nice at times (even if his characters have a whole lot of horse-face going on), but that's about it.

The manga feels like it's just checking boxes to get to the end. Toyotaro just isn't good connecting the dots from Toriyama's outline and transforming it into a complete story. His narrative as an author is seriously lacking.

As a result, everything that made the arc unique, that made the villains different and imposing, is missing here. It's all dull and generic.

I wouldn't go that far. I just think Toyotaro is limited in what he can do and tell with only a monthly release, 40 pages, and trying to be different from the anime. Although, a lot of his changes seem to him trying too hard to be different like having Super Saiyan God returns and that 90% power drop is just horrible. I also don't really understand why Hit and Black are so underpowered. Hit at least made some sense and I don't necessarily mind Black being overpowered by Vegeta. But, Black could at least stay calm about it and even tell Vegeta that he would get stronger through this, much like what he did when he fought Goku in the past in the anime.

Toyotaro seems to have completely missed the point of Zamasu, as well. Zamasu being so pretentious was something that the characters and the writers themselves openly mocked. Here, all these speeches and rambles by Zamasu and Black are being treated with serious responses.

To be fair, that is how the anime chose to interpret Zamau's monolog and rants. I don't think Toriyama put in his outline, 'everyone makes fun of Zamasu's speech'. The anime decided that the characters simply won't take Zamasu's claims seriously and make fun of his archetype, while still giving it some measure of truth. The manga decided that the characters would take Zamasu's rant seriously and response to it. I personally prefer the anime's approached since everyone kept telling Zamasu to 'shut up'.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The manga feels like it's just checking boxes to get to the end.

I really don't get how you can say that when most of Chapter 19 was fan-service for Vegeta. If he wanted to, he could have easily gotten to Rose, introduced Zamasu, and had them merged by the end of the chapter, while still leaving room for fights.

There are legitimate criticisms to be made of Toyotaro, but you guys are hardly making them. He's only superficially creative, not willing to make any risky variations. Granted, neither is the anime, but that's hardly the point. A ton of Toyotaro's drawings are blatant traces from other Toriyama drawings, and his proportions are mediocre when he isn't tracing or copying something. His application of grey tones is visually unappealing, and contradictory to Dragon Ball's traditional style. He's embarrassingly bad at drawing women. He seems to actively avoid any SoL that doesn't rely on visuals. That's only scratching the surface of his deficiency, but he does not struggle with tension-building and he doesn't strictly adhere to a bullet-point format, not when he's given a reasonable schedule.

[OLKv3]

Jesus, there's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime. Toyotaro knows how to portray Goku and his art is nice at times (even if his characters have a whole lot of horse-face going on), but that's about it.

The manga feels like it's just checking boxes to get to the end. Toyotaro just isn't good connecting the dots from Toriyama's outline and transforming it into a complete story. His narrative as an author is seriously lacking.

As a result, everything that made the arc unique, that made the villains different and imposing, is missing here. It's all dull and generic.

Toyotaro seems to have completely missed the point of Zamasu, as well. Zamasu being so pretentious was something that the characters and the writers themselves openly mocked. Here, all these speeches and rambles by Zamasu and Black are being treated with serious responses.

Yeah let's just ignore Vegeta openly mocking Zamasu's rant.

The manga feels like it's just checking boxes to get to the end.

I really don't get how you can say that when most of Chapter 19 was fan-service for Vegeta. If he wanted to, he could have easily gotten to Rose, introduced Zamasu, and had them merged by the end of the chapter, while still leaving room for fights.

There are legitimate criticisms to be made of Toyotaro, but you guys are hardly making them. He's only superficially creative, not willing to make any risky variations. Granted, neither is the anime, but that's hardly the point. A ton of Toyotaro's drawings are blatant traces from other Toriyama drawings, and his proportions are mediocre when he isn't tracing or copying something. His application of grey tones is visually unappealing, and contradictory to Dragon Ball's traditional style. He's embarrassingly bad at drawing women. He seems to actively avoid any SoL that doesn't rely on visuals. That's only scratching the surface of his deficiency, but he does not struggle with tension-building and he doesn't strictly adhere to a bullet-point format, not when he's given a reasonable schedule.

Most of the complaints are boiling down to "this isn't like the anime, and I already know what's going to happen, so it sucks". People not realizing that they themselves were bashing Anime Black and calling him a weak villain until the fight where he turned the tables on Vegeta. I never realized this fanbase was so reactionary

[sintzu]

There's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime.

Vegeta got a new punching bag, how is that not good ?

[Freeza9000]

There's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime.

Vegeta got a new punching bag, how is that not good ?

Because it was at the expense of diminishing Goku Black as a villain........

[SansrivaaL]

Reading the chapter again with some translation, its really sad how Goku Black was turned into this.... for a lack of better word "bitch" I feel like for some reason the Black ver anime will be the Zamasu ver manga, he has the ring meaning he's the Zamasu from our current timeline right? and he seems calm for someone that see's a SSJB right infront of him.