Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[CTAkuma]

I mean I feel like if one of them appears, then both will appear, because they are supposed to be equivalent forms to each other.

Well we know the movie is supposed to continue from the events of the anime and that Goku and Vegeta do not have CSSB since they have auras in the trailer, so it would be a plothole if they don't use them at all for no reason.

[PFM18]

I mean I feel like if one of them appears, then both will appear, because they are supposed to be equivalent forms to each other.

Well we know the movie is supposed to continue from the events of the anime and that Goku and Vegeta do not have CSSB since they have auras in the trailer, so it would be a plothole if they don't use them at all for no reason.

Well a popular interpretation is that this will follow neither the manga or the anime exclusively, and it could simply be only Toriyama's story with no anime exclusive or manga exclusive plot points.

[mute_proxy]

Well a popular interpretation is that this will follow neither the manga or the anime exclusively, and it could simply be only Toriyama's story with no anime exclusive or manga exclusive plot points.

Toriyama thinks otherwise:

The official website also features a quote from Akira Toriyama about Dragon Ball’s next adventure:

"The Dragon Ball Super movie this time around will be the next story that takes place after the anime that’s currently on TV. The content will shed a little light on previously unexplored topics having to do with Frieza and the Saiyans, and I think it will be a very enjoyable story that serves up a long-awaited formidable opponent!"

[Mister_Popo]

I presume the movie will be written in such a way public who has only seen the first two movies or nothing concerning DB still can follow the story.
That's why they could skip certain transformations (like variants of 'Blue', UI ...) and characters (like Zeno, Grand Priest) that demand more explaination.
Gogeta's fusion would of course be explained in the movie itself.

The reason for this is not Toriyama wanting to tell his own story.
A lot of his script was shortened because of the movie.
It would simply demand too much explaination for people that haven't seen Super at all.
They want to market this movie to the biggest audience ever.

[CTAkuma]

I presume the movie will be written in such a way public who has only seen the first two movies or nothing concerning DB still can follow the story.
That's why they could skip certain transformations (like variants of 'Blue', UI ...) and characters (like Zeno, Grand Priest) that demand more explaination.
Gogeta's fusion would of course be explained in the movie itself.

The reason for this is not Toriyama wanting to tell his own story.
A lot of his script was shortened because of the movie.
It would simply demand too much explaination for people that haven't seen Super at all.
They want to market this movie to the biggest audience ever.

At this point everyone knows that SSBKKx20 and Blue Evolution exist. They even reference the tournament of power in the trailer, you know something that newbies who only watched the 2 movies would scratch their heads at

[RecolorSaiyan]

You can't have SSB KK and not SSBE since the whole point of the latter was to close the gap with the former for Vegeta. Its also not like Vegeta did SSBE on accident, on 2 occasions in episode 127, he went from base to ssbe plus its his strongest form unlike say ssj2 which would make sense for him to skip. You would also just end up needlessly confusing fans and contradicting your own continuity

[CTAkuma]

You can't have SSB KK and not SSBE since the whole point of the latter was to close the gap with the former for Vegeta. Its also not like Vegeta did SSBE on accident, on 2 occasions in episode 127, he went from base to ssbe plus its his strongest form unlike say ssj2 which would make sense for him to skip. You would also just end up needlessly confusing fans and contradicting your own continuity

How is this confusing at all? It wouldn't make sense inuniverse when they are beaten and tired in Blue, but not use their strongest forms which they could tap in willingly unlike UI.

[Mister_Popo]

I presume the movie will be written in such a way public who has only seen the first two movies or nothing concerning DB still can follow the story.
That's why they could skip certain transformations (like variants of 'Blue', UI ...) and characters (like Zeno, Grand Priest) that demand more explaination.
Gogeta's fusion would of course be explained in the movie itself.

The reason for this is not Toriyama wanting to tell his own story.
A lot of his script was shortened because of the movie.
It would simply demand too much explaination for people that haven't seen Super at all.
They want to market this movie to the biggest audience ever.

At this point everyone knows that SSBKKx20 and Blue Evolution exist. They even reference the tournament of power in the trailer, you know something that newbies who only watched the 2 movies would scratch their heads at

Yes, but this is going to be shown to an audience where even the first two movies weren't shown.
They are going to play it relatively simple because of marketing purposes. There are going to be references to Super only, but not too much.
Casual Blue and Red are known with the crowd that has only seen the first two movies, or maybe haven't watched Super in detail.
The fact Vegeta gets a 'Red-upgrade' would be even an opportunity to explain the non-ritual use of the Red-form that was introduced during BOG to a broader audience.

[mute_proxy]

Just because something happened in the series doesn't mean it all has to be crammed into this movie. If the plot doesn't require SSBE, UI, SSBKK20, then it doesn't.

[BlueBasilisk]

I imagine if we see them it'll be after Broly activates Full Power Super Saiyan. We don't know much about SSBE but Kaioken isn't made for long sustained fights.

It would be weird if they didn't appear since essentially the same thing happened in the manga so they're basically 1:1 on transformations again. Manga Goku got bootleg Kaioken and UI Omen, mangq Vegeta got bootleg SSBE and anime Vegeta got SSG.

Depending how hard they want to push this 'back to basics' approach in refreshing the series, I could also see them being written out like Grades 2 and 3 for being to inefficient compared to normal SSB, or that movie Goku and Vegeta's SSB will be an 'enhanced' version similar to SSBE that's about as strong.

SS2 and 3 are no-shows so far too, and we've had plenty of discussion about UI. If you wanted to tidy up the series, the current selection the movie has shown would be a very efficient way to do that. Base form, the classic Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God as the new Super Saiyan 2 (stronger/faster than 1 but more efficient than Blue) and Blue as the new SS3 with spectacular power at the cost of stamina. And unlike 1->2, there's a very nice visual distinction between the three forms so you're never unsure what they're using.

I'm surprisingly okay with that idea so long as they address why Kaioken/Evolution don't get used.

[Mister_Popo]

I'm surprisingly okay with that idea so long as they address why Kaioken/Evolution don't get used.

There might be a possibility that won't happen.
Why would they use Red a lot in the new movie?
'Blue' will probably be a big stamina-drainer as such (even without Kaioken or SSBE) within this movie.
It could be portrayed as a bit more powerful though as we are used to in Super, where it's used all the time (despite the 'stamina-drain', partly because of the perfect Ki-control, but nontheless it's used a lot).

[BlueBasilisk]

I'm surprisingly okay with that idea so long as they address why Kaioken/Evolution don't get used.

There might be a possibility that won't happen.
Why would they use Red a lot in the new movie?
'Blue' will probably be a big stamina-drainer as such (even without Kaioken or SSBE) within this movie.
It could be portrayed as a bit more powerful though as we are used to in Super, where it's used all the time (despite the 'stamina-drain', partly because of the perfect Ki-control, but nontheless it's used a lot).

I didn't say they'd use God a lot. I'm not sure wha they'll do with it. I'm just saying I wouldn't have any issues with a hypothetical trimming of the transformation tree to a tidy 1-2-3 approach again so long as a decent explanation is given for it.

[RecolorSaiyan]

I'm no expert on how movies are made or production so i'll ask you guys.

Couldn't it be that in the script, toriyama just says something like " Goku and Vegeta go full power all out but get dominated by Broly" That would allow Toei and later Toyotaro to adapt it based on their own continuities. Then Nagamine would just tell the animators to use ssbe or ssbkk and toriyama seems agreeable to stuff as long as it doesn't hurts his overall narrative and whether they use regular ssb, ssbkk, ssbe, cssb, it wouldn't matter cause they get their heads caved in regardless. Or do you think he would be very specific that he only wants ssg and ssb and none of the other stuff beyond that ?

[CTAkuma]

Just because something happened in the series doesn't mean it all has to be crammed into this movie. If the plot doesn't require SSBE, UI, SSBKK20, then it doesn't.

Problem is you have to adress them not using those forms when they used them pretty liberally previously in the Tournament, otherwise its a plothole for not using their strongest forms which they have acess to anytime they want

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I'm no expert on how movies are made or production so i'll ask you guys.

Couldn't it be that in the script, toriyama just says something like " Goku and Vegeta go full power all out but get dominated by Broly" That would allow Toei and later Toyotaro to adapt it based on their own continuities. Then Nagamine would just tell the animators to use ssbe or ssbkk and toriyama seems agreeable to stuff as long as it doesn't hurts his overall narrative and whether they use regular ssb, ssbkk, ssbe, cssb, it wouldn't matter cause they get their heads caved in regardless. Or do you think he would be very specific that he only wants ssg and ssb and none of the other stuff beyond that ?

Nagamine did say they are adapting Toriyama's script as is WITH the exception of action scenes so I don't see any reason why they couldn't. Plus Nagamine talked about how the battles are colour coded, if SSGSS Goku and Vegeta fight together KK will obviously be a different colour for Goku.

[Mister_Popo]

I'm surprisingly okay with that idea so long as they address why Kaioken/Evolution don't get used.

There might be a possibility that won't happen.
Why would they use Red a lot in the new movie?
'Blue' will probably be a big stamina-drainer as such (even without Kaioken or SSBE) within this movie.
It could be portrayed as a bit more powerful though as we are used to in Super, where it's used all the time (despite the 'stamina-drain', partly because of the perfect Ki-control, but nontheless it's used a lot).

I didn't say they'd use God a lot. I'm not sure wha they'll do with it. I'm just saying I wouldn't have any issues with a hypothetical trimming of the transformation tree to a tidy 1-2-3 approach again so long as a decent explanation is given for it.

I agree with you a slight explaination would be nice for us 'hardcore fans'. But during ROF-movie they didn't even explain us Blue thoroughly.
I would assume these steps are the easiest to understand for a broad audience:

Super Saiyan (significant power-up without God-Ki) < Super Saiyan God (Godly power, weaker than Blue but easier to maintain) < Super Saiyan Blue (Godly power, stronger than Red but more difficult to maintain) < Fusion

Ssj2 / ssj3 / ssjb evo / ssjb Kaioken don't need to furfill a role storywise within this movie.
I don't say we aren't going to see Blue Kaioken with certainty, but in order to keep it simple they might skip it or incorporate it rather subtle.

We might for instance get a slight red flair with Goku when he fires up to his max in Blue at a given point, without further reference or explaination.

[mute_proxy]

Just because something happened in the series doesn't mean it all has to be crammed into this movie. If the plot doesn't require SSBE, UI, SSBKK20, then it doesn't.

Problem is you have to adress them not using those forms when they used them pretty liberally previously in the Tournament, otherwise its a plothole for not using their strongest forms which they have acess to anytime they want

In the final episode Goku said he can't use UI anymore (at will). That might as well be the case with Vegeta's SSBE.

[CTAkuma]

In the final episode Goku said he can't use UI anymore (at will). That might as well be the case with Vegeta's SSBE.

Well obviously Goku can't use UI at will, but SSBKKx20 is free for use and it was never implied that Vegeta can't tap into SSBE again, infact after achieving it once he did it again afterwards

[mute_proxy]

Well obviously Goku can't use UI at will, but SSBKKx20 is free for use

Kaioken is a technique Goku uses on top of his forms, it's not a separate transformation, so it all depends on him and the plot if he'll use it or not.

and it was never implied that Vegeta can't tap into SSBE again, infact after achieving it once he did it again afterwards

SSBE has been described as Vegeta breaking through his limits. The same way UI was described. Goku achieved UI (omen in this case) multiple times also and now he can't use it. It seems it can only be used when pushed over the limit. (Disregarding the fact that SSBE is just a byproduct of Toei to make Vegeta at least a bit more relevant again.

[CTAkuma]

Well obviously Goku can't use UI at will, but SSBKKx20 is free for use

Kaioken is a technique Goku uses on top of his forms, it's not a separate transformation, so it all depends on him and the plot if he'll use it or not.

and it was never implied that Vegeta can't tap into SSBE again, infact after achieving it once he did it again afterwards

SSBE has been described as Vegeta breaking through his limits. The same way UI was described. Goku achieved UI (omen in this case) multiple times also and now he can't use it. It seems it can only be used when pushed over the limit. (Disregarding the fact that SSBE is just a byproduct of Toei to make Vegeta at least a bit more relevant again.

Point being exactly? These are forms they used regularly in the TOP, hell Goku used SSBKK through Super after Revival of F. SSBE has never been stated as "lost" or Vegeta "not being able to achieve it again", so he can freely use it at will. These forms don't have to be in the movie, but there has to be a logical explanation or flat out answer why they can't use it or it creates a plothole