Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Marlowe89]

I'll reply to the above nonsense later because for now we've got a new episode.

No need, all this arguing over hypotheticals about what Zamasu did in Goku's body has left me exhausted of the whole debate and I doubt it'll ever go anywhere. I'd prefer that we just agree to disagree and move on, but if you really want the last word then you can have it I guess.

[Bullza]

Well then I'm fine with that, I didn't previously read your comment before posting that last one as I planned to later. If you just wanna drop it OK, probably best then that I don't read what you said at all because it'll just make me want to reply to it.

Not trying to make this just a last comment kinda thing so I'll leave this here so the posts actually on topic.


Zeno Tier

Zeno

God Tier

Grand Priest
Vados
Whis
Beerus
Champa

Fusion Tier

Spirit Bomb absorbed Super Trunks with Spirit Blade
Super Saiyan Blue Vegito
Merged Zamasu
Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken
Hit (with Timeskip)

Super Saiyan Blue Tier

Super Saiyan Rose Black
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta
Super Trunks
Base Black
Golden Frieza
Hit (Without Timeskip)

Super Saiyan Tier

Zamasu
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Final Form Frost

Base Tier

Trunks
Goku/Vegeta/Cabba
Final Form Frieza
Assault Frost

DBZ Tier

Super Vegito
Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
First Form Frost
Botamo
First Form Frieza
Super Saiyan Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

GTFO Tier

Majin Buu
Gohan/Piccolo
Tagoma
Supreme Kai
Gowasu

[Marlowe89]

Might as well post my tier list too since the arc's finished. Very enjoyable overall, though extremely messy IMO as far as the power scale is concerned.

Unknown Tier *
Genki Dama Super Trunks
Vegito Blue
Merged Zamasu
Kaioken Super Saiyan Blue Goku
Hit

Elder God Tier
Zeno

Higher God Tier
Great Priest
Vados | Whis
Beerus | Champa

God Tier **
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black
Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta | Super Trunks
Golden Frieza | Future Zamasu | Goku Black
Saiyan Beyond God Goku | Saiyan Beyond God Vegeta

High Tier
Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Goku | Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta
Present Zamasu
Super Saiyan Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku | Super Saiyan Vegeta | Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Final Form Frost
Trunks
Goku | Vegeta | Cabba
Piccolo
Botamo

Spoiler:

* I call it "Unknown" because we don't really have any idea where the characters in this tier stand in relation to specific characters in other tiers. For example, Merged Zamasu could easily be below, equal to, or even above Beerus in strength given the in-universe statements about his power - if Vegeta believes Merged Zamasu to be stronger than anything he's ever felt, that would at least put him somewhere in the higher echelons of strength. Hit could be at many possible places in God Tier, but compared to the other characters listed specifically within this "Unknown" tier I think he's certainly at the bottom power-wise.

** "God level" (a term coined by the anime during Goku/Vegeta's training with Whis) is actually defined pretty clearly in Episode 17 when Whis says that Goku and Vegeta have just barely reached the required level to sense God ki. Golden Frieza and Hit were both confirmed to be capable of sensing God ki in the anime, but since none of the other U6 fighters nor Trunks (Episode 54) could do so, that would place them below God tier by default. This is pretty consistent with the manga's continuity, which I doubt is coincidental. Episode 66 confirms that Trunks later gained the ability to sense God ki at some point after returning to the future to continue his fight against Black, which presumably is thanks to his new "Super" form.

Well then I'm fine with that, I didn't previously read your comment before posting that last one as I planned to later. If you just wanna drop it OK, probably best then that I don't read what you said at all because it'll just make me want to reply to it.

Fine by me. For what it's worth, if I came across as cocky then I'll go ahead and apologize for that. Like you said it's just a discussion on power levels, so I don't want to risk the chance that there might be some kind of lasting hostility between anyone because that's just silly.

[ZombieVito]

Bullza:

How is base Black stronger than Golden Freeza? That's insane.

Please tell me how Piccolo even survived a punch from Frost if he is below Boo? Even weakened Frost was still on par or stronger than base Goku or Vegeta.

[Bullza]

Fine by me. For what it's worth, if I came across as cocky then I'll go ahead and apologize for that. Like you said it's just a discussion on power levels, so I don't want to risk the chance that there might be some kind of lasting hostility between anyone because that's just silly.

It's all cool, it ain't no big deal forget about it. I probably shouldn't have prodded, I was asking for trouble, I should have just replied to the other parts and left the last chunk off altogether because I was making it worse so I'm sorry too.

How is base Black stronger than Golden Freeza? That's insane.

He might not be at. When he fought SSJB Vegeta he blitzed him with a finger to the neck, he then got pummeled and he wasn't really that hurt (it's not like he can't be hurt because he can) and then he kicks Vegeta and hurts him, the first of those two in particular I couldn't being true for Golden Frieza at all.

If you saw that scene by itself you'd think Black was stronger than SSJB Vegeta but then he turns into his Rose form and you'd think he'd be several times, maybe tens of times stronger but it doesn't really show when he fights anyone. SSJR Black was stronger than them but he wasn't that much stronger than them so you'd also think in his Base form he'd be much weaker than SSJB but it didn't come across that way at all.

Was Vegeta caught off guard by Black's power up and that's why he was blitzed? Was he severely holding back when fighting Base Black? It didn't seem like it at all so it's odd.

Please tell me how Piccolo even survived a punch from Frost if he is below Boo? Even weakened Frost was still on par or stronger than base Goku or Vegeta.

Well Buu was the #1 choice and Piccolo was the #2 choice so you'd think Piccolo would be weaker. As for him surviving a punch from Frost well

1. Frost did say he no longer had the power to accidentally kill him so he would have weakened quite a lot.

2. It was against the rules to kill him so he wouldn't have anyway.

[ZombieVito]

SSB Vegeta was not going at full power against base Black. This is pretty clear when Black has to put effort while holding Vegeta's punch.

You have base Goku stronger than SSJ Vegetto so weakened Frost was stronger than him. Boo - SSJ Vegetto is a massive gap that not even the Makankosappo can fill and Frost did say that he would lose if he got hit with it. Piccolo needs to be stronger than Boo.

[Bullza]

Yeah but why wouldn't he be going at him at full power? It's not like he knew he was capable of transforming so it'd be one of those times were they say "Show me your real power". How does him holding back his full power mean Black was able to get speed over to him before he could even react? I don't recall a character blitzing a much more powerful character like that before.

It could be as you said and he was holding back as SSJ2 Trunks easily stopped Base Black and Zamasu's combined blast (though they could have been holding back because he was just aimed at a human but then why they'd even need to combine it...) but if that is the answer then it's just odd the way they went about it because there's no comment from anyone or any visual cue that he'd powered up or was fighting seriously now.

The whole Piccolo and Frost fight is just odd, it doesn't make sense how you look at it. Like I said there was "obviously" Buu and then "I guess" Piccolo. He was shown to be on par with Base Gohan just a few days before the Tournament and he was weaker than he was back in the Buu saga. He said he wouldn't be able to keep up with Goku or Vegeta and that's why he didn't go into the ROSAT.

When it comes time for him to fight both he and Goku know he doesn't stand a chance. Nobody says he's powered up. Everything fits within expectations. They fight...it's mostly written in a way to explain why he did better than you'd think... but then he does that Special Beam Cannon which is far more powerful than it ever had the right to be but they did say it was an attack that went beyond his limits so if it meant it was enormously beyond his limits then I could suspend a bit of disbelief for the sake of entertainment. Vegeta then had to transform to beat him when by all rights he shouldn't have needed to at all.

It makes no sense for Piccolo to be stronger than Buu and he certainly shouldn't be stronger than Base Vegeta but then it makes no sense why Vegeta would have to transform either. The latter would be much more believable though, technically there's nothing wrong with him being able to beat Frost in his base form if he wanted to but still used Super Saiyan just because.

The two base theory started because of this fight. A quick and simply comment like "You're not even as strong as Buu" would fix all this confusion and theorizing in seconds.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Piccolo was fighting on par with Ultimate Gohan in the beginning of the U6 arc, and he seemed to be slightly superior. He seems to be stronger than Boo, but weaker than base Goku & Vegeta.

[HeroR]

Piccolo was fighting on par with Ultimate Gohan in the beginning of the U6 arc, and he seemed to be slightly superior. He seems to be stronger than Boo, but weaker than base Goku & Vegeta.

It's a guess if Gohan was Ultimate. There were no visible cues since Ultimate Gohan looks like Gohan with an aura.

[The Monkey King]

Sooo... Zeno just obliterated Trunks' timeline's multiverse

[Sora Saiyan]

Sooo... Zeno just obliterated Trunks' timeline's multiverse

I'd say it appeared that way, but that's not surprising since we've had statements to back it up, but it was nice to get visual confirmation.

[HeroR]

Sooo... Zeno just obliterated Trunks' timeline's multiverse

I'd say it appeared that way, but that's not surprising since we've had statements to back it up, but it was nice to get visual confirmation.

I think that is a safe bet since Future Zen'o is chilling in the past now, something I don't think he would do if there was anything left of the future. Too bad we actually couldn't see it since all the character bugged out.

[Bullza]

I remember when people were wondering what kind of buster Zeno would be and if he destroyed a Universe would he also destroy all the timelines of that one Universe or just the one.

So it definitley looks like he can wipe out the entire Multiverse but not the entire...I dunno the word, the entire world, his power doesn't cross over to other timelines. Not that maybe it couldn't because Zamasu somehow was breaking into another timeline.

[buutenks]

Well, atleast we know why Beerus is sweating bullets everytime he even hears the word Zeno lol.

Haha, maybe the next villain that wants to destroy everything should just steal the Zeno button, make Zeno appear and annoy him. Total annhilation.

And to think i thought the Zeno button was going to be a instant win button lol

[ZombieVito]

Piccolo was fighting on par with Ultimate Gohan in the beginning of the U6 arc, and he seemed to be slightly superior. He seems to be stronger than Boo, but weaker than base Goku & Vegeta.

It's a guess if Gohan was Ultimate. There were no visible cues since Ultimate Gohan looks like Gohan with an aura.

He had Ultimate Gohan's hair and on this last episode he had his eyes. He's obviously not at his Boo arc prime but he's getting there.

[HeroR]

Piccolo was fighting on par with Ultimate Gohan in the beginning of the U6 arc, and he seemed to be slightly superior. He seems to be stronger than Boo, but weaker than base Goku & Vegeta.

It's a guess if Gohan was Ultimate. There were no visible cues since Ultimate Gohan looks like Gohan with an aura.

He had Ultimate Gohan's hair and on this last episode he had his eyes. He's obviously not at his Boo arc prime but he's getting there.

How would you know he isn't at his Buu Saga prime? And Gohan was still fairly skinny in Episode 30 compared to Ultimate Gohan.

[dbzfan7]

I remember when people were wondering what kind of buster Zeno would be and if he destroyed a Universe would he also destroy all the timelines of that one Universe or just the one.

So it definitley looks like he can wipe out the entire Multiverse but not the entire...I dunno the word, the entire world, his power doesn't cross over to other timelines. Not that maybe it couldn't because Zamasu somehow was breaking into another timeline.

Zeno's power crosses over through reality itself. It's so powerful it broke the fourth wall, and killed all the streams airing from japan. That's super OP!

[ZombieVito]

It's a guess if Gohan was Ultimate. There were no visible cues since Ultimate Gohan looks like Gohan with an aura.

He had Ultimate Gohan's hair and on this last episode he had his eyes. He's obviously not at his Boo arc prime but he's getting there.

How would you know he isn't at his Buu Saga prime? And Gohan was still fairly skinny in Episode 30 compared to Ultimate Gohan.

He appeared more bulky in episode 43 and I suppose you're right, we can't know if he is at his full power again or not in this last episode.

[emperior]

This is my tier list using numbers. I might have made some mistake so if you spot some or you disagree with something in this list please tell me


Zeno - Infinite
Daishinkan - 30,000
Vados - 15,050
Whis - 15,000
Beerus - 10,000
Champa - 9,950
SSB Vegetto - 9,500
Merged Zamasu - 9,500
Spirit Trunks - 9,500
SSB Goku KKx10 - 9,200
Hit - ?
SSB Vegeta - 940
SSR Black - 930
SSB Goku - 920
Super Trunks - 900
Golden Freezer - 650
SSG Goku - 600
Goku Black - 420
Enraged SS2 Vegeta - 405
SS3 Goku - 400
SS2 Trunks (Trained) - 400
Future Zamasu - 350
Mystic Gohan - 320
SS3 Gotenks - 300
SS2 Goku - 300
SS2 Trunks - 300
Fat Buu - 200
Zamasu - 180
Magetta - 160
SS1 Goku - 150
SS1 Vegeta - 150
SS1 Cabba - 150
Freezer Final Form - 65
Frost Final Form - 60
Base Vegeta - 50
Base Goku - 50
Base Trunks - 50
Base Cabba - 50
SS1 Gohan - 55
SS1 Goten - 50
SS1 Kid Trunks - 50
Piccolo - 45
Botamo - 20
Base Gohan - 15
Base Goten - 10
Base Kid Trunks - 10

[buutenks]

This is my tier list using numbers. I might have made some mistake so if you spot some or you disagree with something in this list please tell me


Zeno - Infinite
Daishinkan - 30,000
Vados - 15,050
Whis - 15,000
Beerus - 10,000
Champa - 9,950
SSB Vegetto - 9,500
Merged Zamasu - 9,500
Spirit Trunks - 9,500
SSB Goku KKx10 - 9,200
Hit - ?
SSB Vegeta - 940
SSR Black - 930
SSB Goku - 920
Super Trunks - 900
Golden Freezer - 650
SSG Goku - 600
Goku Black - 420
Enraged SS2 Vegeta - 405
SS3 Goku - 400
SS2 Trunks (Trained) - 400
Future Zamasu - 350
Mystic Gohan - 320
SS3 Gotenks - 300
SS2 Goku - 300
SS2 Trunks - 300
Fat Buu - 200
Zamasu - 180
Magetta - 160
SS1 Goku - 150
SS1 Vegeta - 150
SS1 Cabba - 150
Freezer Final Form - 65
Frost Final Form - 60
Base Vegeta - 50
Base Goku - 50
Base Trunks - 50
Base Cabba - 50
SS1 Gohan - 55
SS1 Goten - 50
SS1 Kid Trunks - 50
Piccolo - 45
Botamo - 20
Base Gohan - 15
Base Goten - 10
Base Kid Trunks - 10

Good, tho the gap between Base saiyans and DBZ era fighters is massive.

Basically, since u started with 30 k, anyone below Ultimate Gohan and ssj3 Gotenks shouldnt even be on that list.

While it might annoy some, that is how it is. Current base Trunks/Goku/Vegeta>>> Ultimate Gohan, ssj3 Gotenks and so forth.