"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

Nice text. I knew Toyotaro's manga was just a promotional thing since the beginning with his own comment calling it by that, but I didn't know about the rest of what is written there.

[HeroR]

Here's the anime list of excess padding for you who were denying its prevalence. I got lazy with the details as time went on, but I assure you it's accurate.

47-Lettuce farming, everything on Beerus' Planet except Zeno foreshadowing. For the most part, nothing that happened in the present mattered.
48-Pilaf explains math. The episode drags ass getting Trunks to the past, as well as getting a Senzu to Trunks, which happened to be the only important things that episode even attempted. Also, Pilaf and co.'s reactions take up far too much time. This episode was about half padding.
49-More Pilaf Gang antics. Fantastic fish sausage scene. Side characters talk about Trunks for a few minutes. Dabra fight (didn't tie to anything in the anime). Not as much as last time, still far too padded.
50-Black unnecessarily destroys time machine, sets up half a dozen unnecessary episodes. This one didn't have much padding itself, though.
51-Literally the entire episode.
52-I understand that a lot of people like this episode, but all of the development is artificial, the only time it ties in is during another time-filler scene. This one is pretty much entirely padding as well.
53-There are a few minutes total of Zamasu's development, the rest is padding.
54-This is a tricky one. The story demands that Trunks trains with Vegetation, but this doesn't really fit with that. I hesitantly say this one is almost entirely padding, too, the only exemption being Zamasu's scenes.
55-This one's pretty good, no unnecessary padding.
56-Same
57-In fights like this, it's hard to judge it by the same criteria, seems good though.
58-Mostly padding.
59-Unnecessarily dragged out buildup. Almost entirely padding until the last 5 minutes or so.
60-Almost entirely padding. Goku Black reveals his identity, so that's neat, I guess.
61-Mostly padding up until the Trunks bit at the end.
62-Almost entirely padding, other than the Mafuba scene
63-Some padding throughout, but not too much.
64-Entirely padding other than the Mafuba/merging scenes.
65-Drags its ass through, but nothing is ridiculously unnecessary.
66-Oddly uneven padding, but not too much.
67-Not much padding.

Luckily, I made notes last time I watched through. The story could have been condensed into an arc half as long, and with room to spare. Or, more preferably, a movie. Whatever your opinion on it is, the anime arc was padded half to death. It's an indisputable fact.

47 - I wouldn't call it excessive padding since it shows what the characters in the present are doing and how compared to the future. Trunks is fighting for his life and people are dying, Goku is living this happy life on his farm with his only worry being the upcoming tournament.

48 - The scene was a little long, but it shows why the Pilaf Gang was hanging out with Trunks, what they were doing, and what is their relationship.

49 - Only Pilaf could be considered padding, and that only lasted a few minutes. Overall, they were there to break some of the tension of the episode.

50 - Black destroying the Time Machine wasn't padding. It was a story element to show that Black didn't mess around when he put his mind on something. He could kill Trunks, so he destroys the means for him to return to bother him. In this, it shows Black as a smart villain.

51 - We got more information on Black and his motives, like why was he killing mortals and think he was doing justice. We also find out more about Future Mai's relationship with Trunks, giving character development for both.

52 - Disagree.

53 - There is actually very little padding since we find out how Zamasu is, why he distrust mortals, how he learned about the Time Rigns since Beerus and Whis were investigating him, and his beginning obsession with Goku. The only really padding was Trunks meeting 18 and some of the Pilaf stuff.

54 - Nothing in this episode was padding since it shows development between Future Trunks and Vegeta, as well as getting Trunks trained.

55 - Agreed

56 - Agreed

57 - No padding that I can think of

58 - Disagree. It was nice having the character sit down and discuss what the heck is going on after they got thrown for a loop last episode. It would have been unrealistic if they were ready to go. We also get to see what were Zamasu's plan. The only thing Whis got wrong was exactly how Black was created. Almost everything else was right, including why Zamasu needed the Time Ring.

59 - Disagree. Seeing Zamasu complete his fall into darkness and how he relationship with Gowasu has changed was important. We also have more interaction with Present Trunks and Future Trunks which is always good.

60 - Padding, but it gave Present Trunks a lot of development, like him understanding why he live in a peaceful era.

61 - Disagree. We find out how Black was created, how he formed his alliance with Future Zamasu, how they killed the gods and destroyed the Super Dragon Balls, and why they chose Trunks' timeline to attack. There is no padding that I can see in this episode.

62 - Disagree since the Evil Containment was important along with Vegeta training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for six months. These events may have been merged with the first trip, but this is hardly padding.

63 - There is no padding that I can remember in this episode.

64 - Disagree. It shows that Black was still evolving and understanding how the Saiyans work, we got the Evil Containment and the secondary characters doing something.

65 - We got to see Merged Zamasu' power and how outclassed Goku and Vegeta were. At the same time, we got to see Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks throw their hearts and souls against such a great force.

66 - Nothing in this episode was padding. Every scene had a purpose.

67 - Agree.

So this isn't a case of being in denial. This is a case of what you considering padding I call character and story development. We get to feel for these characters and get to know how they're feeling in the moment, over the rushed and bullet point feeling the manga has. So this isn't an 'indisputable fact' and I suggest you don't state your opinion as such.

[TheMikado]

With the exception of the merry-go-round trips between the future in the Trunks arc, I really like the "padding" of the anime and wish they would actually slow the pace down a bit.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

With the exception of the merry-go-round trips between the future in the Trunks arc, I really like the "padding" of the anime and wish they would actually slow the pace down a bit.

A slow pace doesn't require absurd amounts of padding, see: Dragon Ball Kai. The problem with Super is that they use said padding to artificially slow down the pace, making for a worse product. As I've been saying a lot lately, there's not enough to Toriyama's new stories to competently form a weekly series, which is why Dragon Ball should have stayed with the movie format. Although I'm hopeful that this will change with the Universe Survival Arc, as well as future stories.

[LightBing]

With the exception of the merry-go-round trips between the future in the Trunks arc, I really like the "padding" of the anime and wish they would actually slow the pace down a bit.

It's far from being the worst paced arc of all the Dragon Ball anime. It's also a very short arc, making it hard to compare to the rest of Dragon Ball.

It has good "filler" contributions like the Gohan episode, compared to the bad "filler" like Chi-chi searching for Goku because she has cooked him a bunch of food for about 8/9 minutes. Then it has the typical dragged out fight's, which I usually don't like but I can understand if people enjoy them.

What irks me is the double standards displayed in this thread, in favour of the anime and of the manga, the first being much more prevalent and therefore what I'm focusing on.
Making a fuss about the kart racing "filler" of the manga, the only case of unnecessary material in this whole arc, while the anime has quite a few and choosing to paint those in a brighter light.
While stuff like Future Trunks fight against Babidi falls in the added material exactly like Goku's first fight with Black, for example. Both of these are expansions which debatably have more or less value.
The fight in the manga shows how Kaioshin died which is relevant to the story, solves some questions like Old Kai being in the sword enabling Beerus to be alive, shows how Trunks got SSJ2 and that he trained with the Z-sword, also when Black arrived on Earth. It's not essential but it also isn't useless.
Likewise the first Goku vs Black in the anime falls in the same category.

Because numbers don't lie and unlike words can't be turned into hyperboles. Here's the real pacing of the manga compared to the original:

Freeza Saga:
Manga - 37 chapters
Anime - 33 episodes
1,12/1

Android Saga:
Manga - 20 chapters
Anime - 13 episodes
1,53/1

Cell Games Saga:
Manga - 32 chapters
Anime - 28 episodes
1,14/1

Fusion Saga:
Manga - 23 chapters
Anime - 21 episodes
1,09/1

Future Trunks Arc: Note that each chapter has 39 pages compared to the 13-15 of the original manga. Because of that I count each Super chapter as 2,5 chapters of the original manga.
Manga - 15 chapters (6) Still Going.
Anime - 19 episodes
0,78/1 (Since we're getting at least one more chapter, this stat at a minimum will be 0,92/1)

[OLKv3]

- Black in the anime went into Trunks' timeline because he wanted to punished Trunks for breaking the time taboo, which he went into details on in Episode 61. He didn't go there to avoid Beerus or to a place where Goku and Vegeta were long dead. He then killed all the Supreme Kais himself, while Black was cheering that Future Dabura did his dirty work because he didn't want to deal with Beerus. Also, in the anime, the U7's Supreme Kai didn't die in battle. Black killed him himself along with all the other Supreme Kais.

This makes no sense to me. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but how can Black punish Trunks for something like that if he looked like he had no idea about the time machine early on in the arc? Ugh, I dislike a lot of the time shenanigans.

Because it's wrong. Black had no idea Trunks traveled through time until much later. He didn't go to the future to pick with Trunks. He just said this to Trunks later to mock him further. Hero got the entire convo wrong somehow, he was saying "hahaha in a way this is all your fault Trunks! If you never saved Goku, I'd never have been able to steal his body and ruin your planet! Hahaha you suck!"

[The gr]

Man this fandom is hypocritical because they complained that super Saiyan blue draining stamina in the manga but in the anime Goku blatantly state that super Saiyan blue drain stamina and then they complained that go kart racing is padding meanwhile the anime has a lot of it but regarding this chapter was meh at best because it focus on Vegeta way too much it should have trunks fighting Goku black not Vegeta

[HeroR]

Because it's wrong. Black had no idea Trunks traveled through time until much later. He didn't go to the future to pick with Trunks. He just said this to Trunks later to mock him further. Hero got the entire convo wrong somehow, he was saying "hahaha in a way this is all your fault Trunks! If you never saved Goku, I'd never have been able to steal his body and ruin your planet! Hahaha you suck!"

If he didn't know about Trunks' time traveling until much later, how would know about Trunks saving Goku from heart virus by traveling to the past? That isn't something Trunks ever told him. Future Zamaus also gave the same speech at the same time as Black, saying how Trunks' sin awakening the justice within them.

That is your interpretation of the scene.

Man this fandom is hypocritical because they complained that super Saiyan blue draining stamina in the manga but in the anime Goku blatantly state that super Saiyan blue drain stamina and then they complained that go kart racing is padding meanwhile the anime has a lot of it but regarding this chapter was meh at best because it focus on Vegeta way too much it should have trunks fighting Goku black not Vegeta

You're butchering the argument.

People didn't complain because Vegeta lost energy against Hit. People complained because Vegeta transforming twice in the row dropped his power by 90%, which is utterly unheard of in the series. Also, it makes Vegeta look like a moron because he either didn't know about this weakness or he transformed twice in the row knowing about it, when he could have simply kept his transformation once he went Blue against Cabba. Also, why does Blue have this weakness after Goku and Vegeta trained it for three years?

The padding in the manga stands out more compared to the anime since the manga is a monthly publication. So every page on the manga needs to count, compared to the anime that can waste an episode on fluff since the anime gets four to five episodes in a months. Not to say I don't mind the kart racing since it was fun, but it went on too long. The same with the Future Majin Buu stuff that could have been easily summarized in a few pages, not take half the chapter.

[OLKv3]

Because it's wrong. Black had no idea Trunks traveled through time until much later. He didn't go to the future to pick with Trunks. He just said this to Trunks later to mock him further. Hero got the entire convo wrong somehow, he was saying "hahaha in a way this is all your fault Trunks! If you never saved Goku, I'd never have been able to steal his body and ruin your planet! Hahaha you suck!"

If he didn't know about Trunks' time traveling until much later, how would know about Trunks saving Goku from heart virus by traveling to the past? That isn't something Trunks ever told him. Future Zamaus also gave the same speech at the same time as Black, saying how Trunks' sin awakening the justice within them.

That is your interpretation of the scene.

It's proven he didn't know because Black had no idea what the time machine was, or that Trunks could time travel. He was shocked when he found out what it was in the past. It's not an interpretation, you got the dialogue completely wrong. Rewatch the episode. Them suddenly knowing Goku's past is a major contradiction and most likely added in. Even then, he still said "In a way this is all your fault because saving Goku's life is how I was able to steal his body in the first place!"
He wasn't saying "I came here to mess with you and make you pay!"

[HeroR]

Because it's wrong. Black had no idea Trunks traveled through time until much later. He didn't go to the future to pick with Trunks. He just said this to Trunks later to mock him further. Hero got the entire convo wrong somehow, he was saying "hahaha in a way this is all your fault Trunks! If you never saved Goku, I'd never have been able to steal his body and ruin your planet! Hahaha you suck!"

If he didn't know about Trunks' time traveling until much later, how would know about Trunks saving Goku from heart virus by traveling to the past? That isn't something Trunks ever told him. Future Zamaus also gave the same speech at the same time as Black, saying how Trunks' sin awakening the justice within them.

That is your interpretation of the scene.

It's proven he didn't know because Black had no idea what the time machine was, or that Trunks could time travel. He was shocked when he found out what it was in the past. It's not an interpretation, you got the dialogue completely wrong. Rewatch the episode. Them suddenly knowing Goku's past is a major contradiction and most likely added in. Even then, he still said "In a way this is all your fault because saving Goku's life is how I was able to steal his body in the first place!"
He wasn't saying "I came here to mess with you and make you pay!"

He had no idea what the time machine looks like. Once he realized what Trunks did, he put two and two together quickly and wasn't baffled by what was going on. I've re-watched the episode several times along with Episode 50 when Black arrived in the past.

It's not a contradiction since he asked Zuno everything he knew about Goku, so why wouldn't he know about Trunks saving him from the heart virus. This saga was also all but written by one person and they should know what they wrote previously. And he did all but said that when Future Zamasu and him talked about how Trunks' sin has awakening the justice in their hearts.

[The gr]

Because it's wrong. Black had no idea Trunks traveled through time until much later. He didn't go to the future to pick with Trunks. He just said this to Trunks later to mock him further. Hero got the entire convo wrong somehow, he was saying "hahaha in a way this is all your fault Trunks! If you never saved Goku, I'd never have been able to steal his body and ruin your planet! Hahaha you suck!"

If he didn't know about Trunks' time traveling until much later, how would know about Trunks saving Goku from heart virus by traveling to the past? That isn't something Trunks ever told him. Future Zamaus also gave the same speech at the same time as Black, saying how Trunks' sin awakening the justice within them.

That is your interpretation of the scene.

Man this fandom is hypocritical because they complained that super Saiyan blue draining stamina in the manga but in the anime Goku blatantly state that super Saiyan blue drain stamina and then they complained that go kart racing is padding meanwhile the anime has a lot of it but regarding this chapter was meh at best because it focus on Vegeta way too much it should have trunks fighting Goku black not Vegeta

You're butchering the argument.

People didn't complain because Vegeta lost energy against Hit. People complained because Vegeta transforming twice in the row dropped his power by 90%, which is utterly unheard of in the series. Also, it makes Vegeta look like a moron because he either didn't know about this weakness or he transformed twice in the row knowing about it, when he could have simply kept his transformation once he went Blue against Cabba. Also, why does Blue have this weakness after Goku and Vegeta trained it for three years?

The padding in the manga stands out more compared to the anime since the manga is a monthly publication. So every page on the manga needs to count, compared to the anime that can waste an episode on fluff since the anime gets four to five episodes in a months. Not to say I don't mind the kart racing since it was fun, but it went on too long. The same with the Future Majin Buu stuff that could have been easily summarized in a few pages, not take half the chapter.

Agree the future Majin Buu stuff should only have 3 pages explaining and chapter 13 was stupid but it kinda made sense like how Vegeta loss against hit but still it was stupid and man I wish the manga was weekly instead of monthly

[prince212]

hi there ¡¡ this is my first post.
In my opinion the manga is doing good , nice drawings , beutifull paneling conections most of the times and more consistent argument , specially if we are talking about time rings , which i think is a very important point in DBS. anime create 3 trips to the past and only showed one more ring ... manga just one more ring created by trunks chickening out of black in his time line.
so if somebody can correct me , there is 5 time rings :
- fisrt in universe ... 12?
- trunks fisrt time trip to give medicines and advise about androids
- cell coming back in trunks time machine wanted to be perfect
-trunks going to fight the androids and finding cell
-trunks chickening out of black

i do like the timelines and i hope one day somehow they try to join them to create a single one with the winner or smthg... we will see who was the first time traveller ...bardock will be an option but i dont know how to match that ...

[Noah]

Because numbers don't lie and unlike words can't be turned into hyperboles. Here's the real pacing of the manga compared to the original:

Your comparison fails its primary objective since you can't just compare a weekly published manga with a monthly one.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Because numbers don't lie and unlike words can't be turned into hyperboles. Here's the real pacing of the manga compared to the original:

Your comparison fails its primary objective since you can't just compare a weekly published manga with a monthly one.

They're actually surprisingly similar, structurally. The ratios aren't 100% analogous, but the numbers are fair.

[alakazam^]

Is it fair to compare them that way since this time around the manga has to play catch-up to the anime?

[HeroR]

If you're going to compared the Super manga's pacing to another manga, it needs to be a monthly manga, not a weakly released. For example, look at Full Metal Alchemist or even Berserk.

[SaiyanGod117]

The manga to me is superior to the anime in terms of coherencey, plot, characterization, and powerscaling. However, in terms of entertainment value its fall short, I'm not saying the manga isn't entertaining, but since it's trailing behind the anime now. A lot of the shock value or the aching to know what comes next has dissipated, that would've made the manga a much more enjoyable read. Be that as it may, it is promotional material, so I suppose you could say it's just doing job. Even so, it would help DBS out a lot from not just a production standpoint, but from an storytelling point one as well. If Toei just adapted everything from the manga. Except the fight scenes, the fights are too tame for the level of power these character have.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Snip.

The difference is the manga is a monthly publication with only ~30-40 pages per chapter, and it's also behind the anime. When you're only putting out that much content and are playing catch up to the anime you can't waste time on filler.

The manga to me is superior to the anime in terms of coherencey, plot, characterization, and powerscaling. However, in terms of entertainment value its fall short, I'm not saying the manga isn't entertaining, but since it's trailing behind the anime now. A lot of the shock value or the aching to know what comes next has dissipated, that would've made the manga a much more enjoyable read. Be that as it may, it is promotional material, so I suppose you could say it's just doing job. Even so, it would help DBS out a lot from not just a production standpoint, but from an storytelling point one as well. If Toei just adapted everything from the manga. Except the fight scenes, the fights are too tame for the level of power these character have.

As of right now the manga's powerscaling is even worse than the anime's, but you may be right about the other things.

Anyway, I've come up with a power level list to try and prevent Vegeta vs Black from contradicting the U6 arc.

SSJ Goku: 1
SSJ2 Goku: 2
SSJ3 Goku: 3
SSJ2 Trunks: 3
Black: 3.5
SSJ2 Black: 3.5
SSJ2 Vegeta: 4
SSGod Goku: 6
SSBlue Vegeta: 9

[Nejishiki]

hi there ¡¡ this is my first post.
In my opinion the manga is doing good , nice drawings , beutifull paneling conections most of the times and more consistent argument , specially if we are talking about time rings , which i think is a very important point in DBS. anime create 3 trips to the past and only showed one more ring ... manga just one more ring created by trunks chickening out of black in his time line.
so if somebody can correct me , there is 5 time rings :
- fisrt in universe ... 12?
- trunks fisrt time trip to give medicines and advise about androids
- cell coming back in trunks time machine wanted to be perfect
-trunks going to fight the androids and finding cell
-trunks chickening out of black

i do like the timelines and i hope one day somehow they try to join them to create a single one with the winner or smthg... we will see who was the first time traveller ...bardock will be an option but i dont know how to match that ...

In Dragon Ball Super's anime continuity, Future Trunks doesn't create any timelines through time travel. The only characters responsible for time-splits in the Future Trunks arc are Beerus and Whis. Dragon Ball Super's manga continuity has yet to lay blame on anyone for creating a time-split. The manga continuity likely shares stories with the anime continuity since Future Trunks tells Future Mai he didn't alter his time machine settings after the Artificial Humans arc concluded. The coordinates must remain static or else he'll create another alternate past unrelated to the world he already knows.

Spoiler:

Furthermore, the Universe 12 human responsible for creating the first split timeline is exclusive to Dragon Ball Super's manga continuity right now. Both continuities seem to share the timeline splits established in the Artificial Humans arc (Future Trunks' original time-split, Cell's time-split, and the second, parallel Future Trunks born from Cell's time-split).

[prince212]

In Dragon Ball Super's anime continuity, Future Trunks doesn't create any timelines through time travel. The only characters responsible for time-splits in the Future Trunks arc are Beerus and Whis. Dragon Ball Super's manga continuity has yet to lay blame on anyone for creating a time-split. The manga continuity likely shares stories with the anime continuity since Future Trunks tells Future Mai he didn't alter his time machine settings after the Artificial Humans arc concluded. The coordinates must remain static or else he'll create another alternate past unrelated to the world he already knows.

Spoiler:

Furthermore, the Universe 12 human responsible for creating the first split timeline is exclusive to Dragon Ball Super's manga continuity right now. Both continuities seem to share the timeline splits established in the Artificial Humans arc (Future Trunks' original time-split, Cell's time-split, and the second, parallel Future Trunks born from Cell's time-split).

Thanks for your answer , you said that beerus and whis created a new time-split instead of trunks coming back to past .. but they showed a new time ring before beerus killed zamasu ..
(scanlation link removed by administrator)
i hope they will show us all the parallel worlds some day