Possible Kai hate from Z fans?

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:59 am

I don't like it but I don't hate it. I put this in the same category as FUNimation re-releasing the show all the time.

B · Post by B » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:11 am

JulieYBM wrote:
B wrote:
DemonRin wrote:You're allowed to criticize Kai as a product, but don't give Toei crap.
If Toei didn't fuck over Z with massive amounts of filler to cash in the popularity of the manga, there wouldn't even be a NEED for Kai.
It was unvoidable. The Anime was running right behind the Manga, therefore it had to add filler. It happanes all of the time with other JUMP series' (to varying degrees of course).

By the looks of it, filler is still going to be left in, and though you can't form a complete opinion out of one episode, it seems it will at least be a tolerable amount. Filler itself is unavoidable, but the sheer amount the original Z had is just a few yards past unnecessary.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:09 am

JulieYBM wrote:
B wrote:
DemonRin wrote:You're allowed to criticize Kai as a product, but don't give Toei crap.
If Toei didn't fuck over Z with massive amounts of filler to cash in the popularity of the manga, there wouldn't even be a NEED for Kai.
It was unvoidable. The Anime was running right behind the Manga, therefore it had to add filler. It happanes all of the time with other JUMP series' (to varying degrees of course).

True enough, have you seen Naruto, its got an incredibly huge number of fillers, all of them horrible and no very funny.

Ever since I learned Kai wouldn't have too many fillers I was ecstatic

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:25 pm

Fun fact: Naruto's infamous fillerarc happened because it avoided filler. Eventually it caught up with itself and had no choice but to draw it out.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:57 pm

B-kun wrote:Fun fact: Naruto's infamous fillerarc happened because it avoided filler. Eventually it caught up with itself and had no choice but to draw it out.

Wow, 4 seasons of non-stop filler, and then they just started a completely new series, at least DBZ has some funny fillers, like Pikkoro driving...but still, I hate fillers specially because it screw up conversations by adding non-canon stuff

Stridex · Post by **Stridex** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:22 pm

As a strong proponent of Japanese-only, the cropping was an issue for me in the release of Z, mostly because it was poorly done and I had so much of the series in 4:3. Something about the episodes of Kai not matching up to the numbering of Z "alleviates" some of that stress for me, and also the cropping appears much more... thought out.

I WILL hate some on the BGM. The old stuff was just so distinctive and iconic, that I'm a little disappointed that there's a direction change. I was really feeling the Dokan Dokan instrumental bit with the horns during the Dragonball recap... it "felt" right... but so much else felt wrong.

All in all, though, I'll most assuredly be tuning in, and am going to use Kai to get some friends into the series because of it's "faster" friendly format.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:42 pm

Stridex wrote:As a strong proponent of Japanese-only, the cropping was an issue for me in the release of Z, mostly because it was poorly done and I had so much of the series in 4:3. Something about the episodes of Kai not matching up to the numbering of Z "alleviates" some of that stress for me, and also the cropping appears much more... thought out.

I WILL hate some on the BGM. The old stuff was just so distinctive and iconic, that I'm a little disappointed that there's a direction change. I was really feeling the Dokan Dokan instrumental bit with the horns during the Dragonball recap... it "felt" right... but so much else felt wrong.

All in all, though, I'll most assuredly be tuning in, and am going to use Kai to get some friends into the series because of it's "faster" friendly format.

Hey I think that BGM is matter of habit...... Most of US like US BGM, because they grew on it, same as most of Europeans and Asians like the original BGM and each side of this fan base don't like much the opposite BGM....... It will take some time, and I will appreciate Kai BGM as iconic too.... Most of BGM impressed me and some little dissapointed me

Stridex · Post by **Stridex** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:50 pm

MCDaveG wrote: Hey I think that BGM is matter of habit...... Most of US like US BGM, because they grew on it, same as most of Europeans and Asians like the original BGM and each side of this fan base don't like much the opposite BGM....... It will take some time, and I will appreciate Kai BGM as iconic too.... Most of BGM impressed me and some little dissapointed me

I watched Vegeta through SSJ 1 in the Ocean / FUNi dubs my first time through, and I disliked the music most of all. The thing that made me first perk up and appreciate DBZ and anime in general was when I watched the Pioneer version and there was less stupid crap in the script along with DISTINCT iconic music. Again, I'm not fully ruling Kai out here yet... the Dokan Dokan theme is good, and when they did the instrumental version it felt so right I was giddy. But the other stuff isn't there... yet.

If we don't get the SSJ2 Gohan theme, though... grrrr

SweetCosmicPope · Post by **SweetCosmicPope** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:03 pm

I can definitely see, now that I've watched it, how people can gripe about Kai.

Personally, I'm indifferent. It had some cool effects, music, and new openings and endings (and eyecatches), but I'm not going to go out of my way to watch it again. If they bring it stateside, I wouldn't mind owning it for completions sake and to check out the rest of the series.

I was more wowed by the special, and I have no real interest in watching a truncated version of the show, when I have the "long version" already.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:22 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Forgive me for not yet having a chance to read every single last post, but if my glancing-through is correct...

Why on Earth are people under this delusional assumption that no-one DISLIKES what has been done with Kai? I personally said this time and time again on the site and podcast: Toei does not get a free-pass just because they're Japanese. I have seen plenty of people disagreeing with the course this show has taken, and I'm reading posts that seem to imply that all fans of the Japanese version are eating this up with no critical analysis just because it's Japanese and comes from Toei...

... which couldn't be further from the truth.

Is it just a case of people reading what they want to read to try and prove their "point"...? Or am I totally just missing something, here?

Then on the other side, I'm seeing people claim that because it's something "new" (which is true!)... it can't be touched at all for critical analysis.

Well, geeze... if we can't talk about it, what's there to talk about...?!

Finally, I would like to remind everyone that if you can't state your points eloquently and kindly to your peers, please do not bother posting.

Thanks for that. Yesterday, this forum was turning into a more "Why you should or shouldn't hate Kai" thread than an actual thread discussing Kai haters.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:47 pm

I'm not on the "nobody should criticize Kai at all" Camp, I just don't like this Idea of people expressing their opinions of Kai by basically saying either: "FUCK YOU TOEI, YOU RAPED DBZ!!" which is a reaction we've been seeing in various degrees of severity. Or people making the Argument that anyone who likes Kai but hates the FUNi Season sets is now a hypocrite.
Bottom line, Toei as a company deserves a Pass. That's not to say you can't criticize Kai, Just that people should stop acting like Toei kicked their dog. Cut Toei as a company some slack since they never discontinued the Dragon Box singles, and criticize Kai as a new product.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:01 pm

Now THIS is what I'm talking about. Somebody posted this as a comment on my DBKai Ep 1 Review.

"its recycled trash. i love dbz. but this KAI... is trash, there just using it extend the life cycle drgaonball z and make as much money as possible without doing anything really creative to produce sumin NEW.

if they were really serious, they would create brand new series, with the animation style of the opening n ending themes, that would be cool. but this will never happened, they should let the series be the way it is instead of recycling everything and renaming in it."

Don't believe me? Check it for yourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebj1eMVVYik

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:10 pm

ShinRogafuken wrote:Now THIS is what I'm talking about. Somebody posted this as a comment on my DBKai Ep 1 Review.

"its recycled trash. i love dbz. but this KAI... is trash, there just using it extend the life cycle drgaonball z and make as much money as possible without doing anything really creative to produce sumin NEW.

if they were really serious, they would create brand new series, with the animation style of the opening n ending themes, that would be cool. but this will never happened, they should let the series be the way it is instead of recycling everything and renaming in it."

Don't believe me? Check it for yourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebj1eMVVYik

lol, I did see that too. I love Kai, but it certainly isn't perfect. No free pass for Toei. Here something from my review.

"...I have to get used to the Goku's Jap voice cos it sounds like a little girl, Earths saviour a worrior with the voice of a little girl come on.
Gonna have to watch this episode again..." - UltimateHibz

This argument again...What do you guys make this?

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:Now THIS is what I'm talking about. Somebody posted this as a comment on my DBKai Ep 1 Review.

"its recycled trash. i love dbz. but this KAI... is trash, there just using it extend the life cycle drgaonball z and make as much money as possible without doing anything really creative to produce sumin NEW.

if they were really serious, they would create brand new series, with the animation style of the opening n ending themes, that would be cool. but this will never happened, they should let the series be the way it is instead of recycling everything and renaming in it."

Don't believe me? Check it for yourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebj1eMVVYik
lol, I did see that too. I love Kai, but it certainly isn't perfect. No free pass for Toei. Here something from my review.

"...I have to get used to the Goku's Jap voice cos it sounds like a little girl, Earths saviour a worrior with the voice of a little girl come on.
Gonna have to watch this episode again..." - UltimateHibz

This argument again...What do you guys make this?

Never liked Goku's voice because it does sound like a girl, because he was voiced by a woman, but I think he thinks they changed, because he sow the original in english

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:30 pm

Rod wrote: Never liked Goku's voice because it does sound like a girl, because he was voiced by a woman, but I think he thinks they changed, because he sow the original in english

I'm not make that assumption, but I just find it interesting that this age old question was raised again.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:18 pm

Criticisms of Kai from Japanese Z fans (not my opinions) :

- Both opening and ending themes suck
- They should've re-animated the whole footage
- Do not change the BGM's
- Cropped = Crap
- Too much screen shaking
- Do not make Goku a girl
- Do not censor the script-- "Buchi korosu zo! I'm gonna fuckin' kill you!" -> "Utsuzo! I'll shoot you!"

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:43 pm

kei17 wrote: - Do not make Goku a girl

Eh...I don't exactly get this point.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:47 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
kei17 wrote: - Do not make Goku a girl
Eh...I don't exactly get this point.

Castration, he's referring to I think.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:47 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
kei17 wrote: - Do not make Goku a girl
Eh...I don't exactly get this point.

Me neither, and I still don't understand why people don't like cropping, I get why they don't like Funi's; it was a half-assed job, but I don't get why they hate Kai's

But I do think they should have re-animated, although I think they didn't do it like that because it wasn't worth it since it's just a remastered, but it would still be very cool

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:50 pm

bkev wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
kei17 wrote: - Do not make Goku a girl
Eh...I don't exactly get this point.
Castration, he's referring to I think.

Ah of course! I have to admit as biased as this makes me sound the fact that the official animation company is toning down things makes me feel a little better about the slight censorship in America to the manga. I didn't know the anime was a little risque by today's standards there.

Kanzenshuu

Possible Kai hate from Z fans?

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