Where did DBE fail, where the Autobots and Joes succeeded?

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:14 pm

I think it was a mix of people not knowing what DragonBall is and not even knowing this movie existed in the first place due to poor promotion. People had childhood memories of GI Joe and Transformers so that draws them to those movies.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:34 pm

Part of the problem is the movie was based on Dragonball, not Dragonball Z.

XanatosVanBadass · Post by **XanatosVanBadass** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:24 pm

SHINOBI-03 wrote:I have no knowledge about Transformers, but is the story supposed to be dark and full of sex jokes?

Sex jokes? Not really. Dark? Yeah, it can be, especially when you factor in the comics. I at least give them credit for trying to be faithful, as opposed to G.I. Joe which somehow managed to fuck up the concept of soldiers fighting terrorists.

And I think what Evolution could've used was a little bit of comedy because I thought it was a bit too serious for a PG movie.

Honestly, I don't thing Dragon Ball works in a live action format period.

A question... do you think the live action verion of Fist of the North star made in 1995 was better than those three in quality and story?

Not really, IMO. I do at least give it a bit of credit for trying to be faithful to the anime, but it was just so fucking stupid all around. Every performance was annoying especially the white guy who has the Japanese name of Kenshiro for some reason.

I say it was... and I don't think it's that famous in the United States at that time. Am I right?

Well, it was a made for TV movie if memory serves. That should tell ya something . . .

Super Sayian Prime · Post by **Super Sayian Prime** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:58 pm

I enjoyed DBE, and both Transformers movies for what they are. I won't talk about how I feel about GI Joe (read as: I didn't like it).

Marketing is the major reason DBE didn't do big numbers. FOX is just adverse to marketing movies. Chun-Li, Aliens In The Attic, I Love You Beth Cooper, Fantastic Mr. Fox, Jennifer's Body etc. are all recent examples of Fox choosing a venue for advertisment that cost nothing. GI Joe alone got a $150 million dollar marketing budget from Paramount, and Hasbro. That's more then what DBE's worldwide gross ($56 million) and budget ($30 million) are combined.

A-dono · Post by **A-dono** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:50 pm

As Rocketman stated, most fans in the US were introduced to the franchise via Dragonball Z. They're used to dealing with Saiyajin, Freeza, scouters and battle powers, Son Gohan, Cell, Buu, ect. We didn't get a complete domestic release of Dragonball until after Z had been running over-and-over again for years, so most US fans tend to overlook the events of the original series.

If DBE had had Vegeta, and Super Saiyajin, and all those other goodies in the Z era, it might have done better and been more recognized.

But in the end, as some others have said, I think this movie was just too little, too late.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:36 pm

I enjoy both GI Joe, and the TF movies since I'm a big fan of both of them. But DBE bomb due to it's bad rep, and bad advertising.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:08 pm

I've been a Transformers fan for as long as I can remember, and I can safely say both live action movies were pretty terrible. But I won't go in to that here.

The important note is that Transformers made a shit ton of money, where as Dragon Ball Evolution did not, despite the fact that the two were both around the same level of faithfulness to the source material.

I think this has already been mentioned but the main thing has to be the lack of an audience. There will always be an audience for Transformers because everybody knows Transformers and it's a very cinematic concept which could easily support a well made Hollywood blockbuster.

But who wants to see a Dragon Ball movie. Most people who were never fans of the show don't care. Most people who are fans think it's a stupid idea. Most people who used to be fans probably have something they'd rather see. And the ones that don't probably don't equate to a whole hell of a lot of people.

I mean the fact is that Dragon Ball doesn't have the same big screen appeal as Transformers.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:16 pm

Not sure if this has been pointed out, but the recently released movie "Avatar" isn't based off of the American Cartoon.

I think DBE failed because it was an extremely poor movie with terrible marketing to boot. Just as a bunch of others said.

It didn't deserve success. The rest of the movies...well, I haven't seen GI Joe or TF2. Transformers 1 succeeded at being entertaining.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:30 pm

I enjoy the TF movies since their so much fun to watch, and I did enjoy the second movie a bit more then the first since it try to stay more closer to the cartoon. And also give the Autobots some more screen time. And that I was a fan of Transformers long before I became a DB fan. Transformers did well since it's done by Michael bay, and it's based on a cartoon that a lot of people grew up with.

I enjoy GI Joe for being a fun movie too since I did not watch the movie for oscaring winning acting or anything. I found GI Joe to be better then the Transformers movies in my opinion. DBE bombed because no one give a damn about the movie since the movie had such a bad internet rep, and the movie had a poor advertising since I saw very little TV adds, and not many advertising on the web neither.

DBE would have done well if the movie was made somewhere between 1998 - 2005.

Sprite Satan · Post by **Sprite Satan** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:38 pm

Dragon Ball has not permeated the American pop culture consciousness near as well as Transformers and GI Joe. It has very little nostalgic resonance compared to other 80's properties and would be considered a 90's fad anyway by most of the western world.

The base of 20-35 year old nostalgic people interested doesn't exist. There was comparatively little advertising to sell it to younger viewers. Regardless of quality, it never had a prayer.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:48 pm

I think the only american movie based on a Japanese series that did well at the box office was Godzilla 1998. But that was because it was a remake, the advertising was huge, and it was a Roland movie.

do you think the live action verion of Fist of the North star made in 1995

I seen that movie, and I hear the movie was going to be release in theathers, but it bomb so bad in Japan that it was released on Video instend. FOTNS live action is fun if you don't take it serious.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:48 pm

Duo wrote:Not sure if this has been pointed out, but the recently released movie "Avatar" isn't based off of the American Cartoon.

But there is one coming out, it's just called "The Last Airbender".

(Because James Cameron got all butthurt over the movie have the word 'Avatar' in it's title, as well.)

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:08 am

The one thing I enjoy out of DBE that it had some nostalgic feel to it since it has that 90's popcorn cheese feel to it like Spawn (1997) did. I still think that DBE made the Transformers movies look like a masterpiece though.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:53 am

Reasons I think DBE flopped:

-Little to no marketing. If I wasn't still active in the community I never would've known about this movie aside from a small blurb I read in USA Today back when they first decided to make the DBE. And even so that blurb told me nothing about a release date.

-The budget wasn't high enough to pull off what they wanted to do. If you want to do a live action Dragon Ball movie, you can't cut corners on special effects if you want to grab the mainstream audience. The mainstream audience loves high-quality special effects and DB's mythos lend themselves well to the possibility of expensive special effects. You need to think Transformers budget. The kind of budget you'd get with a summer popcorn flick. I've read a bunch of reviews on Avatar (The James Cameron one) and even though I haven't seen it, many reviewers are going "Oh the story's rather weak and cliche, but OMG DID YOU SEE THE SPECIAL EFFECTS?!!1111". And then they give it a 4 out of 5. As much as I prefer having both the story and effects high up to par with one another, people can overlook cringe-worthy dialogue (which DBE had loads of, imo) if there's lots of eye-candy to be had, which brings me to--

-Storyline. Look, I can understand having to change some things for the format and for the fact that you're cramming double-digits worth of volumes into a single movie, but making the main character into someone he's not just alienates your established base and confuses your newcomers. (And then there's the hilariously ironic moral-of-the-story about being yourself when Goku's written OOC throughout the whole movie.) Goku's a cheerful, naive mountain boy who loves to fight tough opponents, picks up techniques super-easily, and can really pack away huge amounts of food. Also, Goku's got absolutely no sex drive. He is not Peter Parker and he will never be Peter Parker. Goku's lack of libido makes me wonder how disappointing Chi-Chi's honeymoon was, but that's besides the fact.

Other no-no's: High School, the convoluted mess oozaru form became, pointing out how you'd rather wish to be working on "Avatar: The Last Airbender" by referencing airbending, the return of surfer!Yamcha, bringing people back to life with a kamehameha (that's like shooting someone with a bullet and saying you did it to heal them of the flu), among other oddities.

-The writers' strike. I have a feeling this movie was at least partly started because the studio feared an extended writers' strike would hamper film releases so they took this project off a dusty shelf and quickly started work on it so they'd have it in reserve. That's not the right type of motivation you want in mind when developing this kind of project. It causes the entire thing to feel rushed; like starting a 20-page term paper only two days before it's due.

I only saw the first Transformers movie, but to me the best part was the last half hour where the Transformers themselves finally took center stage. In my opinion they wasted way too much time on the human characters and it felt like nothing but filler until that final battle.

Do they jump right into what's going on with the Transformers themselves in the sequel? I hope they did, because they were infinitely more interesting to me than Sam and whoever Megan Fox's character was.

EDIT:
One question though about DBE and sequels; I know they've pretty much unofficially swept the sequel project under the rug due to disappointing box office sales for DBE, but has there been any official "No we're not going to make a sequel." announcement anywhere? I only ask because the IMDB page for "Reborn" is still there.

Super Sayian Prime · Post by **Super Sayian Prime** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:05 am

I am slightly confused as to why DBE got half the budget of Street Fighter: The Legend Of Chun-Li but grossed way more...

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:27 am

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:I am slightly confused as to why DBE got half the budget of Street Fighter: The Legend Of Chun-Li but grossed way more...

Perhaps it's because Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li somehow managed to be worse than the original Van Damm film (which at least has that cheese factor working in it's favor). I mean, at least DBE was able to retain some semblance of the source material.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:39 pm

I believe DBE even did bad on DVD also. It won't be long when Fox wants to reboot it like Universal studios did with The Hulk.

Street Fighter: The Legend Of Chun-Li but grossed way more...

I believe DBE did better on other parts of the world seeing that Dragon Ball is still popular in Asia, and I believe the movie was #5 in Australia. While SF: Legend of Chun-Li had no marketing, no one even know about the movie until like a week after it cameout or so, and they release the trailer for it like a month or two before it cameout. Also do we really need another Street Fighter movie?

B · Post by B » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:44 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I believe DBE even did bad on DVD also. It won't be long when Fox wants to reboot it like Universal studios did with The Hulk.

They're not going to reboot it.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:43 pm

I think the movie would have done better if it had a better cast, a bigger budget, and was a summer popcorn flick. While a live action DBZ movie will never like be at The Dark Knight level, or anything but I rather have a mindless popcorn DBZ flick then a cheesy movie that we have got.

Fox only made DBE since their rights where coming to a end IIRC?

Pitzu · Post by **Pitzu** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:54 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote:Its been noted that the story for both Transformers movie were horrible to true fans.

Those same True Fans also hate Beast Wars because they think its all Furry bullshit.
Those TRUFANS are neckbeards who have rooms full of transforming toys and no girlfriend or social life to speak of.

Their opinions are moot.

Kanzenshuu

Where did DBE fail, where the Autobots and Joes succeeded?

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