Piccolo and Tenshinhan (Buu Saga)

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:19 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Ok, well the next time I compare someone's strength to another's, feel free to go Enraged Super Saiyan 1,000 and ban me or something

VegettoEX>>>>>>J00

*runs*

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:47 am

IncredibleGuy wrote:
WWWAAAAYYY back in DB, Kuririn said that he trained to get a girlfriend. He was a married man by Buu's Saga, so, it's logical that he stopped training.
Er... I don't recall hearing this in the show, was that in the manga or something?

After Kuririn failed to get on the Kitoun, Kame senin asked him wether he had come to train with bad intentions; Kuririn replied that he didn't have any bad intentions. He just wanted to become a strong fighter to make the girls like him. [then, Kame senin told him that that was a bad intention.

]

Gouki · Post by **Gouki** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:39 am

Tenshinhan... deserved better. I mean, during the Cell saga he was able to keep 2nd stage Cell at bay (sure it ended in exhaustion and almost death), but even his first kikoho was able to (from my hazy memory) knock him away.

Then, seven years later we assume he's been training for all that time (speaking of which do we ever see Chaot-su in the Buu saga?), and one kikoho doesn't even phase Buu.

Surely seven years would have been able to harm Buu, in the slightest? He can't have been that impossibly strong at that stage. He only had Piccolo/Goten/Trunks absorbed at that stage. It was even Gotenks anymore, I believe.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:22 am

Then, seven years later we assume he's been training for all that time (speaking of which do we ever see Chaot-su in the Buu saga?), and one kikoho doesn't even phase Buu.

Caos appears in Buu Saga. He appeared just after Buu finished his Human Genocide attack, appeared again to give energy to the Genki Dama, and later, in the manga only, he appeared in the pannels which show every charachter back in Earth.

Surely seven years would have been able to harm Buu, in the slightest? He can't have been that impossibly strong at that stage. He only had Piccolo/Goten/Trunks absorbed at that stage. It was even Gotenks anymore, I believe.

Even though Tenshinhan using the Kikoho against Super Buu is in the anime only, and the anime usually isn't very accurate regarding power levels, that's perfectly believable.

Cell Saga Tenshinhan was, at most, possibly overrating him, a bit weaker than Holding Back Piccolo(before revealing his true powers against Gero and fusing with Kami). After that, the sayans and Piccolo got many power ups, leaving him far behind them.

Also Super Buu is impossibly strong. Goku(who could go SSJ3), with the help of Vegeta( SSJ2), thought that it was impossible to beat a Super Buu without any absorbtions. That Buu which received no damage from Ten's kikoho, besides a power which made Goku, who had never ran away from a fight, think that he couldn't handle him, had the power of Gotenks SSJ3 and Piccolo. Even Mystic Gohan couldn't do any real damage to him. It's logical that Tenshinhan's attack would be useless.

Besides everything else, there's the simple fact that the Kikoho is only powerful because most of Tenshinhan's ki is used to fuel it. However, The kikoho that Tenshinhan used against Buu didn't make Tenshihan die[VS Nappa], fall uncouncious[VS Cell], or even get tired[VS Budokai Arena... er... Goku]. It's obvious that there wasn't much power put into it.

Boomer2k4 · Post by **Boomer2k4** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:47 am

Also Super Buu is impossibly strong. Goku(who could go SSJ3), with the help of Vegeta( SSJ2), thought that it was impossible to beat a Super Buu without any absorbtions. .

I always found that a bit off, especially as when Buu lost Gotenks and became mostly Piccolo, Goku wasn't even concerned about the threat he posed anymore, and yet after they've removed everyone and he's just plain old Super Buu again he doesn't believe they can win. Then suddenly he can beat Kid Buu if he can get to full power SSJ3....errrm consistency??

Is this a dub inaccuracy or an actual ep inaccuracy (Goku's demeanour (sp??) does seem to be fairly confident after Gotenks defuses.)

LaRésistance · Post by **LaRésistance** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:48 pm

Neon Z wrote:Besides everything else, there's the simple fact that the Kikoho is only powerful because most of Tenshinhan's ki is used to fuel it. However, The kikoho that Tenshinhan used against Buu didn't make Tenshihan die[VS Nappa], fall uncouncious[VS Cell], or even get tired[VS Budokai Arena... er... Goku]. It's obvious that there wasn't much power put into it.

You have to remember that against Cell, Tenshinhan used more than one Shin Kikoho. If he had only attacked once, he wouldn't have passed out. Against Buu, the Kikoho wasn't aimed at Buu, it was only used to save Dende and Mr Satan, that's why he didn't need to use full power.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:33 pm

You have to remember that against Cell, Tenshinhan used more than one Shin Kikoho. If he had only attacked once, he wouldn't have passed out. Against Buu, the Kikoho wasn't aimed at Buu, it was only used to save Dende and Mr Satan, that's why he didn't need to use full power.

The Kikoho aimed at Buu that I was talking about is the one from the anime(pay attention, I was answering the question of someone else about the second Kikoho that Buu Saga Tenshinhan used in the anime).

In the anime, Tenshinhan used one against Buu's blast(also in the manga), then he dodged one ki blast from Buu, and then he used another kikoho against Super Buu himself.

Also, against Cell, in the manga, Tenshinhan only used four kikohos. That was enough to make him go uncounscious. The anime version of that scene makes no sense, considering the description of the kikoho. It's just an anime plot hole. In order to make so many Shin Kikohos which were more effective against Cell Form 2 than #17 and Piccolo attacks, Tenshinhan would have to be stronger than those two.

I always found that a bit off, especially as when Buu lost Gotenks and became mostly Piccolo, Goku wasn't even concerned about the threat he posed anymore, and yet after they've removed everyone and he's just plain old Super Buu again he doesn't believe they can win. Then suddenly he can beat Kid Buu if he can get to full power SSJ3....errrm consistency??

Goku's confidence against Super Buu 1.5 isn't because of Buu's lack of power, Gohan was still alive and well by that point.

Goku told Buu that Gohan by himself(without fusing with Goku) would be able to beat him now. And Goku could defeat Kid Buu if he could go FP SSJ3 simply because Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu.

Any line which states that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu is just an American dub line[with the exception of a single anime-only line[Goku tells Buu that his power was above any other enemy which he had faced], though that line is just in the anime, not manga, and has a lot of evidence against it].

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:48 pm

For the record, I really hate these "Super Buu 1.5" and "Super Buu 3.14159" names. I don't know what the bloody fuck you're referring to. I'm reading these "FP SSJ3" and "Super Buu 1.5" lines and "This Buu is stronger than this Buu".... and good GOD, it feels like the IGN/GameFAQs boards. And I don't like it when Internet words collide. Not to... err... bash those boards, or anything... any board has its ups/downs...

You know what I mean. >.>

The Shin-Kikoho in the anime doesn't actually do any damage to Cell; it merely pisses him the Hell off by holding him back/down. Tenshinhan's not strong enough to do any damage, but the power of the blast, itself, is enough to annoy Cell a good bit.

Boomer2k4 · Post by **Boomer2k4** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:34 pm

Goku told Buu that Gohan by himself(without fusing with Goku) would be able to beat him now.

Ok you've obviously seen the Jap version with decent translation because in the American Version, which is the only one I've seen for the Buu Saga so far, Goku's line is "You don't honestley think you can beat me now do you?" or something to that effect...

But anyway this is going off topic so I'll quit it for now

Back on Topic, it's unfortunate how the Kihoko (forgive my spelling please) kinda faded into the background as from it's beginnings it was an energy blast beyond a Kamehameha, as from equal level fighters the Kihoko was far more deadly.

However due to the fact that Goku and the enemies have far exceeded Tien it's just another technique now which has become ineffective

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:02 pm

Bobby wrote:Dabura can't sense ki so how he figured who was the strongest three is beyond me. Fact is, it was just a plot device to spotlight the Saiyans.

Obviously he can, or he wouldn't have known that the gang was hiding in the rocks. Hell, he could even tell that Kaioushin was there. He was able to specify a person's Ki.
Vegeta stated on Namek that "those damn brats are able to suppress their power level down to 0!"
Basically, that means whenever someone hides their Ki, they go all the way down to 0. So Dabura is so good a sensing Ki, he could pick up all those readings of 0.
In fact, Dabura even says, and this is a quote from the manga "They are hiding over there, where they think I won't notice them, all seven of them. Although we can't use Kibito's or Kaioushin's energy, there are still others."

So he was able to tell that there were 7 beings, and that Kaioushin and Kibito were there.

Deus ex Machina wrote: VegettoEX>>>>>>J00

That's the misuse I'm talking about ^_^

VegettoEX wrote:For the record, I really hate these "Super Buu 1.5" and "Super Buu 3.14159" names.

For the record, I hate how you hate everything.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:09 pm

VegettoEX wrote: The Shin-Kikoho in the anime doesn't actually do any damage to Cell; it merely pisses him the Hell off by holding him back/down. Tenshinhan's not strong enough to do any damage, but the power of the blast, itself, is enough to annoy Cell a good bit.

I never said it damaged Cell, I said that it was more effective than #17 and Piccolo's attacks because it could push back Cell form 2, even though #17 and Piccolo couldn't make even Cell form 1, after absorbing many humans, flinch. Ok, so I didn't mention anything in italic, but I also didn't talk about damage.

Ok you've obviously seen the Jap version with decent translation because in the American Version, which is the only one I've seen for the Buu Saga so far, Goku's line is "You don't honestley think you can beat me now do you?" or something to that effect...

EDIT: I haven't seen the Japanese version... but I've seen: The Brazilian dub, Brazilian manga, 2 different english scanlations of the manga and two different english fan translated scripts[can't remember if they were from the anime, or manga]. Three of them said that "Gohan by himself can beat you now!" and the other three"Even Gohan can beat you now!".

The second one can be interpreted as Goku stating that Gohan is weaker than him... BUT he also could be just comparing Gohan to the Goku+Gohan fusion that would be necessary to beat Super Buutenks(Happy, VegettoEX?

).

The second interpretation makes more sense( considering that later Goku said that Super Buu without anything absorbed would kill him, and the fact that he tried to fuse all the time to fight against Super Buu(He blames Vegeta for crushing the earings, but he didn't want to fuse to fight against Kid Buu).

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:01 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:For the record, I hate how you hate everything.

You're more than welcome to find another place to converse, then.

Neon Z wrote:I never said it damaged Cell, I said that it was more effective than #17 and Piccolo's attacks...

I know. I didn't think it was quite made as explict, though, so I popped in it there

.

Neon Z wrote:Super Buutenks(Happy, VegettoEX?)

Hahaha. It's just that I don't have a freakin' clue what number corresponds to what. Super Buu 1.5? Huh? WTF does that even stem from? I've never even seen fan-names like that until the last year, or so, on random other boards. At least with a fan-term more along the lines of "Buutenks" I know what's being inferred.

I dunno, it all just reminds me far too much of "Bennifer."

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:21 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Hahaha. It's just that I don't have a freakin' clue what number corresponds to what. Super Buu 1.5? Huh? WTF does that even stem from? I've never even seen fan-names like that until the last year, or so, on random other boards. At least with a fan-term more along the lines of "Buutenks" I know what's being inferred.

I dunno, it all just reminds me far too much of "Bennifer."

That's why I use terms like Super (Piccolo) Buu, or Super (Gotenks) Buu.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:43 pm

With the super kikoho, I think if Tien did it at point blank range, it could have destroyed #17. But that's my opinion.

Gouki · Post by **Gouki** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:13 pm

Neon Z wrote:Even though Tenshinhan using the Kikoho against Super Buu is in the anime only, and the anime usually isn't very accurate regarding power levels, that's perfectly believable.

Really? I'm... not that far with the manga.

I concede the point of damage, but still maintain Tenshinhan deserved better.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:40 am

Hahaha. It's just that I don't have a freakin' clue what number corresponds to what. Super Buu 1.5? Huh? WTF does that even stem from? I've never even seen fan-names like that until the last year, or so, on random other boards. At least with a fan-term more along the lines of "Buutenks" I know what's being inferred.

Huh... Ok. But those fan-names aren't new, as far as I know, very old sites already used the names Super Buu 1, 2 and 3 (though I only saw "1.5" in the Gamefaqs boards).

And, well, they're better than Majin Buu 1, Majin Buu 2, and Majin Buu 3, fan names used by some old Brazilian sites instead of Fat buu/Super Buu/Kid Buu...

Kanzenshuu

Piccolo and Tenshinhan (Buu Saga)

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