Anime Deviating From Original Manga

Boomer2k4 · Post by **Boomer2k4** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:51 pm

Inspiried by a topic I've had on this forum I'd like to ask for some opinions regarding what happens when the anime deviates completely from the manga.

My feelings on it, from the animes I'm familiar with, are quite negative.

Dragonball has GT *shudders* and the movies

After the incredible Kyoto Arc, Rurouni Kenshin replaced the amazing Jinchuu (Revenge) Saga with a random collection of non-manga eps which wrote out about 1/2 of the main characters. Although this is understandable as the arc wasn't complete in the manga when they wanted the 3rd series of anime.

Slayers is a bit of an exception as the 3rd series, Try, is excellent if a bit darker than Next, the 2nd series, and misses a couple of story threads but nothing unforgivable.

Any feelings on the subject??

Frobman · Post by **Frobman** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:54 pm

Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Monsters GX is a new series after the original YGO DM, but I don't know if it's good, great or what.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:01 pm

I've never seen the Slayers manga, or all of Try (missed a bunch of eps on I-channel including the finale). How different is it?"

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:35 pm

I'm pretty sure Excel Saga is slightly different from the manga, not sure how much though. Same with Weiss Keruz, I dont even know if there is a manga for that.

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:46 pm

Boomer2k4 wrote:After the incredible Kyoto Arc, Rurouni Kenshin replaced the amazing Jinchuu (Revenge) Saga with a random collection of non-manga eps which wrote out about 1/2 of the main characters. Although this is understandable as the arc wasn't complete in the manga when they wanted the 3rd series of anime.

Thats why it sucks when anime adaptions of manga catch up, it forces out more filler. I got a feeling this will happen to Naruto.

Heritic · Post by **Heritic** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:58 pm

From what I understand, the Hellsing and Trigun animes had different endings from the manga. I can't confirm this since I've only seen the anime versions and not the manga.

I know Inuyasha was an anime that ended differently from it's manga. I don't really keep up with Inuyasha anymore though. Is the manga still going or has it ended? I know the anime ended.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:32 pm

I'd prefer to see this (somehow) stick to DragonBall in some way; general off-topic discussions aren't particularly allowed on this forum.

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:44 pm

Just a quick round-up before getting back on-topic:

The Excel Saga manga didn't have Nabeshin (he's a self-insertion of the anime's director)... and I'm pretty sure Pedro wasn't there either (though I could be wrong about that part).
The Trigun manga continues with Trigun Maximum, which was never animated.
The Inu Yasha manga is still going, even though the anime ended.
There is another Yu-Gi-Oh! manga series (Yu-Gi-Oh! R, I believe it's called), but it is completely unrelated to the anime Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.

Now... back on-topic.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:41 am

There is a TON of material in the Dragonball Anime that is not in the Manga. I have 5 volumes now and the difference is...unbelievable.

Everything that happens in the Manga happens in the Anime, rest assured.

Okay...the 1st episode of DBZ is over half Filler, but most of it was, oddly enough, removed from the Funi Dub. So, originally, that added almost twice the story..and it wasn't even plot device, it was Gohan running away from a tiger until Goku showed up.

Moving on...more examples!

Most of the Goku vs. Freeza fight was, indeed, Filler. The instances where he almost died but was inspired by images of death or Vegeta talking...that was Filler. Here are the events in the Manga as follows.

-Goku and Freeza start fighting, Goku is stated by Kaio to be at Kaioken x10.

-They fight evenly with a few interesting points such as Goku doing the Kamehameha balls underwater.

-Freeza goes up to 50% and owns Goku for a while.

-Goku used the Kaioken x20 and beats Freeza around for about..7 seconds, then fires a Kamehameha but his power bombs out right beforehand and the Kamehameha turnes out really weak.

-Freeza starts to beat the crap out of an uber weak Goku.

-Goku starts creating the Genki Dama

-Piccolo kicks Freeza ONCE and knocks him away from Goku.

-Gohan and Kuririn (Krillin) hit an airborn Freeza with blasts to distract him, who has not even fought Piccolo at all beyond the ONE KICK.

-Goku unleashed the Genki Dama just as Freeza startes the death ball.

-The whole scene with them coming from the water is shorter, but basically the same.

-Freeza reappears and shoots Piccolo.

-Kuririn is killed.

-Goku gets angry for a second starts rattling, then, in a simple instant, goes Super Saiyan. Thats right, the half episode length was about ONE PAGE long.

-Goku kicks Freeza around, some minor things (the near spine snap) are added.

-Freeza almost blows up Namek.

-Freeza powers up to 100% and beats Goku around quite easily, we break to Kaio and Kami talking.

-Porunga is summoned as Goku and Freeza are now fighting quite evenly. Freeza stops after a few pages and tries to get Porunga's wish.

-Goku and Freeza fight again, Goku is winning because Freeza is too drained.

-Disks thing happens, is kinda short.

-END.

The whole 5 minutes til' explosion thing actually makes sense in the Manga too, it FEELS like 5 minutes.

Of course, it doesn't stop there.

The Garlic Junior Saga was entirly Filler, and didn't occur in the Manga...there is No sign of it, at all.

The Outer World Tournament was also Filler, with no reference in the Manga at all.

Vegito fighting Super Buu Gohan at base was Filler.

SS2 Goku vs. Kid Buu was Filler.

The battles inside of Buu were all Filler.

Kuririn fighting Cell on that Airplane was Filler, as was most of the scenes with Stage 1 Cell attacking Cities.

SS3 Goku vs. Super Buu Gotenks was Filler.

I can go on for a long time...I hope this gives you a decent impression.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:43 am

Err... let's not try and get into a huge list of what's filler and what's not. We're working on a certain section that will eventually answer all of that, for you ^^;;.

The only reason I say this is because a single post listing what's filler simply gets WAAAAAAY too long

.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:31 am

Didnt we have a thread just like this not too long ago?

Boomer2k4 · Post by **Boomer2k4** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:46 pm

Super Sonic wrote:I've never seen the Slayers manga, or all of Try (missed a bunch of eps on I-channel including the finale). How different is it?"

Hugely, the list is far too long, read re-write end of Next, and Try, like Kenshin writes out a couple of chars, but since this is going off topic if you wanna know more PM me

Michi · Post by **Michi** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:37 pm

I know we wanna get on topic with Dragon Ball, but I really quickly wanted to correct a few things I saw earlier in the thread. After that I'll type lots that's actually relevant to Dragon Ball to make up for it. *^^* Sorry, I can't help myself!

SaiyaJedi wrote:The Trigun manga continues with Trigun Maximum, which was never animated.

Actually, where the Trigun manga ends isn't even at the end of the anime. It ends like halfway through the anime storyline. Maximum picks up right away, and the continued story from it is the rest of the anime. I thought Maximum was a sequel to the anime/manga story too, til my friend bought the English manga and I was very surprised that Maximum was just the other half of the anime. But, Maximum might have other stuff added at the end that wasn't in the manga. I dunno, I never finished it. ^^;

Sun_Wukong wrote:Same with Weiss Keruz, I dont even know if there is a manga for that.

I'm not the biggest Weiss fan but I used to be into it so I hope I'm remembering this correctly... x_X There IS a manga, I know that, and it came before the anime. But before even that, I believe, there were radio dramas based off Takehito Koyasu's idea for the story and the voice actors for the main four formed the Weiss singing group. The entire idea behind the Weiss project was formed by Koyasu, but he isn't a manga artist or anything so it didn't start out as a manga at the beginning. ^^;

Now then! Dragon Ball.

I have very mixed feelings about the fillers. My boyfriend and I recently bought manga volumes 17-19. The anime equivalent for this is about the first 30 episodes of Z. That's a bit silly when you consider most anime versions of three volumes of manga would be about 12 episodes, and DBZ took more than twice that to cover it with all the filler they added. (I don't actually know if that's always true for manga to anime, but it's pretty damn true for anime that stay with the manga story without filler. An example being Fushigi Yuugi, which up until around episodes in the 30s where they skipped a section of manga, you can pick out volumes and go "this is episodes 1-4" "this is episodes 17-20", etc. ^^) Some of the filler in DBZ is really unnecessary and began to really bug me. I just wanted to get further in the story already, and see the animated versions of stuff I loved in the manga. But some of it actually isn't bad, and adds neat stuff that you just wouldn't get in the original story.

Let's point out some. How about, Goku falling off Hebi no Michi/Snake Path? That hurt my head. Especially when you consider how it adds something that should've changed the later storyline. Goku finds a path down there that takes him right to Enma's desk and he has to start over again. (Ugh.) Okay then. At the end of his training with Kaiou, he has to hurry back across Snake Path to Enma's so he can return to Earth to battle Vegeta and Nappa because Kaiou can't just teleport him there. But um, in the anime, Goku discovered a shortcut back to Enma. So if they wanted to actually follow what we learned in filler, he could've just hopped right off Snake Path, down to Hell, take the shortcut again, and be back in time to battle with everyone. XD Way to go, anime.

That's something that really made me shake my head. By making the entire post-Raditz pre-Vegeta&Nappa segment longer, they had to make Goku's journey in the sky a little bit more interesting... But I wish they wouldn't have done something like that. Making him start all over and making it so his running back later felt kinda silly? dskjgasdhg BLAR.

But then there's fillers I actually like. Even though it did bother me at times that they really stretched out Gohan's survival training, it allowed us to see more of him as a little boy before battle hardening that we just don't get in the manga. I enjoyed this because I absolutely adore Masako Nozawa's portrayal of little Gohan. She makes me absolutely want to squish him and hug him and love him forever.

Yeah, some of it was a bit much.. like the Mr. Robot episode or the orphan episode.. but .. eeee Gohan cuteness. I did enjoy seeing the one part where he was smacking the poor nearly tail-less dinosaur and making him run when he was obviously very tired. ^_^; Gohan was just messing with him!! There's also stuff like his cute curiousity of all nature and random things they added that adds so much to his character. Those are the kinds of fillers that are good. Goku got the crap end of the stick in that sense.

I remember at first I thought the whole news coverage of the Saiyan fight was a bit silly, but when I saw later that Bulma-tachi were watching it at Kame House then it fit in pretty well. It added an emotional thing, like with Bulma and Puar's reactions to what the Saibaiman did to Yamcha. I liked that, even though the idea of news helicopters circling the fight was still a bit odd feeling. And perhaps that's what gave Toriyama the idea for the Cell Games to have media coverage too? o.o? Maybe. XD; It's kinda a different whole idea for it but oh well.

Don't even get me started on the whole Nappa and Vegeta on Arlia thing. I guess it showed us how ruthless they were, but it wasn't necessary. We could already tell that pretty easily. Besides, it kinda killed the whole part about how they finally get to earth and are all "Aaah that was a nice nap"... yeah.. after.. Arlia.
(On the topic of space pods and what they did all that time.. My boyfriend and I also make jokes about how Vegeta got bored and dyed his hair and bangs in his little pod and stuff, and changed clothes before they got to earth. Silly animation color changes!)

We're gonna keep following the manga and the anime together, so I'm sure lots more frustration for me is in the future. ^^;;

As for the movies and GT.. some of it kinda feels like fanboyish fanfiction that got to be animated. x_X As for GT... Let's see. The entire idea of Super Saiyan 4, however cool it looks, is really silly to me. Wasn't Super Saiyan 3, in Z, supposed to be all powerful and amazing? It was something Goku still had to work at attaining and it didn't come easy. o_x; To me, Super Saiyan 4 kinda kills all that. Especially since the way Goku first became Super Saiyan 4 was kinda.. um.. odd.
There's also little things in GT that make me go @_@;; .. ^^; Like um, Vegeta's haircut. Wasn't Vegeta the one to mention previously that a pure saiyan's hair doesn't grow anymore after birth/a certain point/whatever? So why would he cut it? Also, why would he even be capable of getting a mustache? XD; Oh well. The haircut is kinda fitting for him in GT being all .. somewhat more daddylike.. I guess.. but I don't think the "real" Vegeta from the original series would have ever done something like that.

Then.. the movies.. Some of them are really cool. I like them. I like the Tapion movie, because it actually fits in as being between the end of Buu and before Uub. Yeahyeah there's the whole sword debate, but if you don't pay attention to the Future Trunks footage in the credits we can say it's the sword of GT Trunks, right? ^_^;; Oh well.
But some of them feel like bad fanfiction gone wrong. Like Lord Slug. Oh hey, it's the Piccolo Daimaou saga all over again. Woo!! .. No thanks. ^^; I haven't seen enough of the movies to say much more though, so I'll just stop here. ^^

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:57 pm

Michi wrote:<snip overly-long rant>

Yeah, the filler gets pretty ridiculous at times. I actually have about one-and-a-half chapters' worth of images to scan for the next 10 or 12 (!) DBZ episodes in the Filler Guide. Makes my work easier, though.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:27 pm

I think we should make it clear about how the process goes:

(1) Clay writes the synopsis / information / timecodes, sends to me
(2) I HTML-ize it all, do the anime screen caps (which represent "filler")
(3) Julian does the manga scans from kanzenban, which look nicer (which represent "canon")

Meaning that if it's almost all filler, Julian's got shit for work to do

.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:40 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Meaning that if it's almost all filler, Julian's got shit for work to do .

I can just picture Julian in front of a blank screen.

Julian: "We're up to the Paikuhan saga already?! Awww crap! That's gonna take me fornever to scan all those images!"

And if you STILL didn't get it with the italicization added in, I wrote "fornever", not "forever". Get it? Funny? Haha? Excellent. Yush.

Michi · Post by **Michi** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:17 pm

There are a ton of early episodes that are 0% canon and 100% filler. Mr. Robot, Hebi-Hime/Snake Princess, the whole Arlia thing, Gohan and the orphans... X_x; So many where not even part of it is actually based off the manga. Believe me, I got all smiley and happy when we were watching and I actually saw something direct from the manga on the screen. O_O It was such a nice surprise at times.

My overly long rant wasn't a bad thing, was it? ;_; I never get to talk about this stuff.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:21 pm

Michi wrote:There are a ton of early episodes that are 0% canon and 100% filler.

Which is why, very soon, Julian will have almost nothing to do in the "Filler Guide" for quite some time

.

Mattias · Post by **Mattias** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:58 pm

Heritic wrote:I know Inuyasha was an anime that ended differently from it's manga.

Inuyasha has an ending?!

Anyway, wouldn't it have been interesting if FUNimation had actually decided to snip out all of the filler segments? Purists everywhere would be pissed (but regardless, purists are pissed at any dub that comes out) but at least DBZ wouldn't have been so...freakin'...long.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:20 pm

I did enjoy "Goku and Veggie inside Buu", even though 2/3rds of it was filler, if only for the way they interact with each other, and Veggie freaking out at the sight of the giant worms.

Kanzenshuu

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