Questions on the Dragon World: The Gods and Dabura

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:41 am

There is a few things I am not clear about in DBZ. Note I have only seen the Funimation and Parts of the Ocean Group dubs (not including movies 10-13 as I obviously have to see them in japanese)

First of all why so many Kai's, is this an Anime inconsistency or do I not have all the info? In the DBZ universe there is four galaxies each with its own kai and a grand kai who ranks higher than them (Is he filler only?) Then you have the supreme kai who ranks higher again and apparantly at one point there was even four supreme kai's.

What is the origin of Dabura? Is his origin any clearer in the origional anime/manga? In DBZ evil people become spirits and go to hell, so he cant come from there. In the manga is he actually referred to "King of the Deamon Realm"

Jord · Post by **Jord** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:20 pm

Dabura is indeed referred as a Kinf of the Demon Realm. This 'Demon Realm' however is never shown in the animé and problably not in the manga. (I've only seen the animé, japanese and uncut however. As I see it, this realm isn't hell, but a completely different planet like the Kaioshin planet (which is also called the 'Kaioshin Realm') Dabura PROBABLY ruled this planet. In DBZ he just 'shows up'along with Babidi so we can't tell for sure. The bits where Dabura is all good in the heaven are filler though. (Very good and funny filler)

The Kaioshin ranking is a bit more complicated:

First we have the Kaios like King Kai. There are indeed 4, for each corner in the universe one.

Kaio-sama

Above them is the Grand Kai, or Dai-Kaio. As far as I know, there is only one Dai Kaio. He isn't filler, but I thought his appearance was made for the anime and thus filler since the whole heaven tournament bit is filler and that's just about the only time we see him.

Above the Dai Kaio where 4 Kaioshins, one of which is the Kaioshin or Supreme Kai we know form the anime. The others where killed by Majin Buu.

Kaioshin of the East

The highest Kaio we have is the Dai Kaioshin. He was very strong but absorbed by Buu. This resulted in the fat version of Majin Buu. This also explains why the fat Buu isn't all evil. It also explains his fat, childish look.

Dai Kaioshin

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:37 pm

So when they refer to the deamon realm or world, they really mean a planet somewhere and by deamon I assume they mean evil being as opposed to the idea of deamons being part of hell in a religous sense.

Yeah I've seen all the parts where they explain about the Kai's. It seemed strange to me that they had so many so I assumed there was an anime inconsistency or something I was missing, the afterlife in DBZ must be a huge burearcracy then

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:06 pm

Aurek wrote:Yeah I've seen all the parts where they explain about the Kai's. It seemed strange to me that they had so many so I assumed there was an anime inconsistency or something I was missing, the afterlife in DBZ must be a huge bureaucracy then

It's a huge bureaucracy. It's probably either a clerical error, or some kind of oversight on the part of a nameless desk-bound Oni.

</facetious>

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:33 pm

Mabye that explains how all the villians were able the keep their bodies several times

Jord · Post by **Jord** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:56 pm

Aurek wrote:So when they refer to the deamon realm or world, they really mean a planet somewhere and by deamon I assume they mean evil being as opposed to the idea of deamons being part of hell in a religous sense.

I think that's it yeah. After all, there a lot of demons in DragonBall. The original Piccolo was supposed to be the king of demons, which makes creatures like Drum demons. The oni's from the afterlife are supposed to be demons too. There simply isn't a defining demon race in db as I know it.

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:29 pm

That's to blame on Japanese mythology really. ^.^;

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:19 pm

Thanks, thats made things somewhat clearer for me. Dabura is definately one of my favourite characters in DBZ even with the small part he had.

The S · Post by **The S** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:30 am

As a mythology buff, I have been trying to exactly structure the DBZ mythological beings.

Oh, and Jord, you might wanna put other deities like Korin, Enma Daiou, and Kamisama. ^_^

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:07 am

The Dai Kaiou-sama, along with the other Kaiou's, are all filler. In the manga, there is only one Kaiou-sama (the one who trains Son Goku) and the Kaioushins. Kaiou-sama is called the "Lord of Worlds" while the Kaioushins are some other deities that govern the universe, I guess. If you count the other Kaiou's, I guess the one we know is the Lord of Worlds for a certain part of the galaxy, and the Kaioushins are gods for certain parts of the universe.
Edit:
Umm...so I guess I'll add a little something...
Dai Kaioushin is like the supreme deity of the DB universe, and the Kaioushins are under him. The Kaiou-sama is the lord over the planets, while Kami-sama is the god of Earth. Enma Daiou rules over the dead, and then we have Hell. Dragon Ball borrows heavily from Japanese mythology, Shinto, and Buddhism.

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:40 am

Which is part of the reason why I like it. =D And sometimes, understanding the mythology and cultural references in it can make watching/reading it all the more amusing.

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:32 am

And sometimes, understanding the mythology and cultural references in it can make watching/reading it all the more amusing.

Indeed it does.

So would that make East Kaioshin or "Supreme Kai" the Dai Kaioshin seeing how he is the last surviving Kaioshin? Or mabye it dosent work like that. I assume he appears in the manga aswell? I also assume no one knows where the Kais come from so we dont know if there will ever be the full amount of Kais again at some point. I also assume calling him Shin is a dub thing. Kami-sama is the god of earth? is there a god for every planet of just the ones inhabited by fools who know nothing of energy and need protecting

and are they always Nameks?

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:48 am

1. Kaioushin just stayed the 'supreme Kaiou' for whatever reason
2. They do indeed call him 'Shin' in the manga.

Jord · Post by **Jord** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:58 am

The S wrote:As a mythology buff, I have been trying to exactly structure the DBZ mythological beings.

Oh, and Jord, you might wanna put other deities like Korin, Enma Daiou, and Kamisama. ^_^

Isn't Korin just a cat who lives nearby Kami ? I mean, he is smart and stuff, but he isn't a god or something? And I myself don't undrstand where Enma stands in this ranking. In the siyan saga it appears he stands above Kami seeing as Kami shits his pants when Enma gets angry. Enma followed Kaio-sama's training(filler?) so I guess that he stands between Kami and Kaio?

So would that make East Kaioshin or "Supreme Kai" the Dai Kaioshin seeing how he is the last surviving Kaioshin? Or mabye it dosent work like that. I assume he appears in the manga aswell?

I guess he is officially the Dai Kaioshin, but he kept his Supreme Kai/Kaioshin name in honor of Dai Kaioshin. I mean, Vegeta is the King of all Saiyans since his father has gone to the next dimension, but he always refers to himself as the Saiyan prince.

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:46 pm

He just sits there and sorts people who have died into a suitable after-life for them. Enma's also found in actual japanese mythology. So he pretty much decides if it's nirvana for you, or hell, or reincarnation. (If I remember it well)

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:50 pm

Karin-sama was the top deity of Dragon Ball for a good 1 / 2 of the Dragon Ball series.

What with Kami-sama not being revealed yet

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 pm

El_Diablo wrote:Karin-sama was the top deiety of Dragon Ball for a good 1 / 2 of the Dragon Ball series.

1/3, actually. (42 / 3 = 14; 14 = volume where Kami-sama first appeared)

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:14 pm

*PINHEAD* wrote:The Dai Kaiou-sama, along with the other Kaiou's, are all filler.

Uh, no.

South Kaio is shown when Goku is training in the Other World. I think I also saw West Kaio somewhere, but don't quote me on that.

When Kaioshin explains how Kid Buu changed into Fat Buu, South and Dai Kaioshins are shown (in the typical pseudo-flashback Toriyama style, just like with Bardock).

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:28 pm

South Kaiou was indeed shown in the manga, but named West Kaiou instead.

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:39 pm

Are you sure? Polish version says "South Kaio".

Kanzenshuu

Questions on the Dragon World: The Gods and Dabura

Questions on the Dragon World: The Gods and Dabura

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