The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Berserker1921]

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)

SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16

1. Piccolo in BoG is probably closer to Initial Perfect Cell level.

2. Trunks wins with low to mid difficulty. 17 is a smart fighter. But not as strong of a fighter as we think.

3. Moro Arc Gohan was able to defeat 7/3, who had all his powers and piccolo’s powers. Base Gogeta is probably as strong or near SsjB Goku/Vegeta in broly arc. I have gohan around that power. But that said, Gogeta wins with high difficulty. Because he is a more experienced fighter.

4. Vegeta eats Frieza alive. Frieza is at best is high SsjB tier. Vegeta was comparable to SsjBKKx20 Goku. So he ruins the golden tyrant.

5. 16 defeats the kids. The kids are probably around 24-40 million in base. 16 is wayyyy stronger than them.

[TobyS]

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)

SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16

Hmm, I think he can perhaps beat SS1 Goku cell Games but I don't see Piccolo beating Buu saga, if he did I think he could handle Frost who SS1 Goku had already battered.

Anime bullshit who knows.

Hmm it kinda depends on how much stronger the blue boys got at broly.
Gohan was one little bit behind ToP blues, but he probably overcame that by Moro.
Base Fusion comes out Blue level so it's hard to say.
I think Gogeta has the edge BUT Gohan is close enough maybe Gogeta has to exert himself enough to defuse and Gohan could win that way.

Golden Freezas feat of surviving against Broly was a gag. Really they'd have grabbed potaras or ran out the clock in the ROSAT when the earth was at stake. We don't know how it played out in the hypothetical canon/manga version.

Having said that I think isn't Freeza coming back kinda implying he's above at least one of them?

I give it to Freeza especially if it's TOP era E.

Gotenks is still stronger than a SS1 in base, and by then most SS can take 16, but probably not the kids. IDK I have them above the humans in ss1 who are weaker then 16 but weaker than piccolo who could trash 16 so it's hard to say. I think Gotenks could win with his wacky techniques but 16 would go no lower than a draw with his self destruct.

[Korru]

Ledgic Vs. Kahseral

They both fight with swords, so I thought this will an be interesting fight

[Koitsukai]

Ledgic Vs. Kahseral

They both fight with swords, so I thought this will an be interesting fight

Ledgic required GT Goku to turn SS. GT Base Goku is at the very least SS2 level from Z, probably closer to SS3. I don't think the Pride Troopers are that strong, they probably cannot even take base GT Goku, and Ledgic is above that. And this would be just one Pride Trooper.

[MrGohanks]

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)

SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16

Hmm, I think he can perhaps beat SS1 Goku cell Games but I don't see Piccolo beating Buu saga, if he did I think he could handle Frost who SS1 Goku had already battered.

Anime bullshit who knows.

Hmm it kinda depends on how much stronger the blue boys got at broly.
Gohan was one little bit behind ToP blues, but he probably overcame that by Moro.
Base Fusion comes out Blue level so it's hard to say.
I think Gogeta has the edge BUT Gohan is close enough maybe Gogeta has to exert himself enough to defuse and Gohan could win that way.

Golden Freezas feat of surviving against Broly was a gag. Really they'd have grabbed potaras or ran out the clock in the ROSAT when the earth was at stake. We don't know how it played out in the hypothetical canon/manga version.

Having said that I think isn't Freeza coming back kinda implying he's above at least one of them?

I give it to Freeza especially if it's TOP era E.

Gotenks is still stronger than a SS1 in base, and by then most SS can take 16, but probably not the kids. IDK I have them above the humans in ss1 who are weaker then 16 but weaker than piccolo who could trash 16 so it's hard to say. I think Gotenks could win with his wacky techniques but 16 would go no lower than a draw with his self destruct.

There's no such thing as "filler" in Super, the manga isn't more "canon" than the anime and the DBS Broly movie applies to both continuities.

[ZombieVito]

Ledgic Vs. Kahseral

They both fight with swords, so I thought this will an be interesting fight

Kahseral finger flicks. GT Goku was very weak at that point in comparison to ToP Goku.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Ledgic Vs. Kahseral

They both fight with swords, so I thought this will an be interesting fight

Kahseral stomps. I think he's on pair with SSJ1 Caulifla given their beam struggle (With the other 4 Pride Troopers together matching SSJ Kale's power), which translates to him being only somewhat below ToP SSJ1 Goku. That's infinitely better than start of GT SSJ1 Goku, who made short work of Redjic.

[Korru]

Ledgic Vs. Kahseral

They both fight with swords, so I thought this will an be interesting fight

Kahseral finger flicks. GT Goku was very weak at that point in comparison to ToP Goku.

If possible, I would like for you to include some additional reasoning as to why you believe this to be the outcome of this fight.
Your battle power list only contains dBs and not DBGT.

Ledgic Vs. Kahseral

They both fight with swords, so I thought this will an be interesting fight

Kahseral stomps. I think he's on pair with SSJ1 Caulifla given their beam struggle (With the other 4 Pride Troopers together matching SSJ Kale's power), which translates to him being only somewhat below ToP SSJ1 Goku. That's infinitely better than start of GT SSJ1 Goku, who made short work of Redjic.

individually-speaking, Base Caulifla and Base Kale is not a good reference-of-comparison since their base levels are not-so-subtle. However, If you believe that both of the saiyan girls' base levels are subtle and easy to pinpoint, can you please provide more information regarding this?

While the other lesser-known pride troopers may not have had that much screen time, I am only interested in Kahseral at this time. However, if you feel as though that you need to include the teamplay in order to represent Kahseral's individual-strengths better, please provide more information on that too, if possible.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

individually-speaking, Base Caulifla and Base Kale is not a good reference-of-comparison since their base levels are not-so-subtle. However, If you believe that both of the saiyan girls' base levels are subtle and easy to pinpoint, can you please provide more information regarding this?

While the other lesser-known pride troopers may not have had that much screen time, I am only interested in Kahseral at this time. However, if you feel as though that you need to include the teamplay in order to represent Kahseral's individual-strengths better, please provide more information on that too, if possible.

Here’s what we know from Kahseral:
- Given his ranking, he’s probably the 4th stronger Pride Trooper just behind Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo. The manga reinforces this by making him and Dyspo the only ones who don’t get eliminated by Kefla’s onslaught;
- He fights both 17 and 18 at once, but fails to land a single blow on either and gets knocked back by 17;
- Overwhelmed the SSJ girls in a beam struggle with his comrades. While that doesn’t speak about his power alone, we can do some math to estimate his power:

Pride Troopers > SSJ Caulifla + SSJ Kale

Assuming each of the girls is had a power of a 100, their power together is 200. The 4 Pride Troopers (I forgot Tupper had been eliminated before the beam struggle) together overwhelmed them, so their power in average is at least above 50, with Kahseral sitting considerably above that.

As for the girls. Caulifla fights Goku evenly, and although it’s suggested he held back (as a fatigued Goku has the upperhand on her later) it couldn’t have been by a considerable amount since she’s stronger than Cabba. So she sits between U6 Tournament Goku and ToP Goku.

If we go with Manga Kahseral for the fight with Redjic, it could go either way. Goku never absorbed SSJG, and seems to be above the average Pride Trooper in base form since they need teamwork to overwhelm him. I’d still put my money on Kahseral though.

[ZombieVito]

If possible, I would like for you to include some additional reasoning as to why you believe this to be the outcome of this fight.
Your battle power list only contains dBs and not DBGT.

Sure. Goku after being turned into a kid wasn't able to use his full power for quite sometime. I remember he even seemed not dimensions apart from Trunks or Pan in some scenes.

Kahseral is stronger than SS3 Gotenks and I don't believe Goku was that strong until he reached planet M2 and faced Rildo.

[TobyS]

Ledgic Vs. Kahseral

They both fight with swords, so I thought this will an be interesting fight

I don't like GT, but Kahseral was beaten by Roshi, albeit by Roshis skill and an element of "it's a not kill Tournament" but yeah GT character > Roshi.

[TobyS]

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)

SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16

Hmm, I think he can perhaps beat SS1 Goku cell Games but I don't see Piccolo beating Buu saga, if he did I think he could handle Frost who SS1 Goku had already battered.

Anime bullshit who knows.

Hmm it kinda depends on how much stronger the blue boys got at broly.
Gohan was one little bit behind ToP blues, but he probably overcame that by Moro.
Base Fusion comes out Blue level so it's hard to say.
I think Gogeta has the edge BUT Gohan is close enough maybe Gogeta has to exert himself enough to defuse and Gohan could win that way.

Golden Freezas feat of surviving against Broly was a gag. Really they'd have grabbed potaras or ran out the clock in the ROSAT when the earth was at stake. We don't know how it played out in the hypothetical canon/manga version.

Having said that I think isn't Freeza coming back kinda implying he's above at least one of them?

I give it to Freeza especially if it's TOP era E.

Gotenks is still stronger than a SS1 in base, and by then most SS can take 16, but probably not the kids. IDK I have them above the humans in ss1 who are weaker then 16 but weaker than piccolo who could trash 16 so it's hard to say. I think Gotenks could win with his wacky techniques but 16 would go no lower than a draw with his self destruct.

There's no such thing as "filler" in Super, the manga isn't more "canon" than the anime and the DBS Broly movie applies to both continuities.

Come on, any anime exclusive stuff is not in the Toryiama outline (or it'd be in both) and therefore not Toriyama stuff, or approved by Toriyama like Toyos additons. Ergo it's filler content created by Toei. It might be deliberate and not just to pad time waiting for new manga chapters like the old days, but it's still anime only padding and bad.

It's official and it's "canon to itself" (except where it creates massive plot and powerscaling plot holes) but in any meaningful sense it's filler. Regardless I cant see where I mentioned filler in the above post, except to see canon in the sense of the manga broly or the barebanes outline broly is "more" canon.

[MrGohanks]

Hmm, I think he can perhaps beat SS1 Goku cell Games but I don't see Piccolo beating Buu saga, if he did I think he could handle Frost who SS1 Goku had already battered.

Anime bullshit who knows.

Hmm it kinda depends on how much stronger the blue boys got at broly.
Gohan was one little bit behind ToP blues, but he probably overcame that by Moro.
Base Fusion comes out Blue level so it's hard to say.
I think Gogeta has the edge BUT Gohan is close enough maybe Gogeta has to exert himself enough to defuse and Gohan could win that way.

Golden Freezas feat of surviving against Broly was a gag. Really they'd have grabbed potaras or ran out the clock in the ROSAT when the earth was at stake. We don't know how it played out in the hypothetical canon/manga version.

Having said that I think isn't Freeza coming back kinda implying he's above at least one of them?

I give it to Freeza especially if it's TOP era E.

Gotenks is still stronger than a SS1 in base, and by then most SS can take 16, but probably not the kids. IDK I have them above the humans in ss1 who are weaker then 16 but weaker than piccolo who could trash 16 so it's hard to say. I think Gotenks could win with his wacky techniques but 16 would go no lower than a draw with his self destruct.

There's no such thing as "filler" in Super, the manga isn't more "canon" than the anime and the DBS Broly movie applies to both continuities.

Come on, any anime exclusive stuff is not in the Toryiama outline (or it'd be in both) and therefore not Toriyama stuff, or approved by Toriyama like Toyos additons. Ergo it's filler content created by Toei. It might be deliberate and not just to pad time waiting for new manga chapters like the old days, but it's still anime only padding and bad.

It's official and it's "canon to itself" (except where it creates massive plot and powerscaling plot holes) but in any meaningful sense it's filler. Regardless I cant see where I mentioned filler in the above post, except to see canon in the sense of the manga broly or the barebanes outline broly is "more" canon.

You just have a bias for the manga, admit it.

The DBS manga is filled with stuff that wasn't in Toriyama's mythical outline (which is really just vague bullet points for where the plot should go) and not all of it is actually approved by Toriyama, he's not Toyo's editor or co-writer.

Since the DBS anime was created first and isn't an adaptation of anything else, anime exclusive content cannot be called "filler" since its not made with the manga in mind and is officially acknowledged by Toriyama himself.

And btw, the Pre-Moro DBS manga was consistently worse than the DBS anime, especially when it comes to the ToP.

[MrGohanks]

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe)

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken)

[Koitsukai]

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe)

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken)

1) Cell stomps. He requires SS2, and Goku hasn't closed that gap by BoG.

2) They were even in base two arcs prior... Vegeta didn't get 100x stronger, not until Moro and Granny arc, and even then I doubt his growth was that much. But definitely not by the end of the ToP.

3) The Time Cage should trap Black without a problem. Black cannot bypass time like Jiren. Even though Black is much stronger than Hit, not even Jiren was able to avoid getting trapped. I'm not sure if Hit can actually attack Black while he is inside the cage, nor if he actually needs to. Probably not, a SSB tier might be stuck there forever.

4) Tough call. After fighting SS4 Goku, I don't see anyone but Ih Shenron standing up to a guy that was so much stronger than Goku. The dragon was really above Goku, I think he has the edge, unless he starts the fight spamming ki blasts. Which I don't think he will do.

5) Krilin didn't get that much stronger, he didn't even train IIRC. Actually probably he isn't that strong even to this day. At best, he is, but loses due to Goku being much more experienced.

[Korru]

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe)

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken)

1). Cell
2). Vegeta
3). Hit
4). Syn
5) . Goku (cause plot)


Syn Shenron wins because he has better usage of abilities and doesn't suffer from being caught off-guard 24/7 (unlike dBs characters)

[Lionel]

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe)

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken)

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell: Goku easily dispatches Cell after a brief scuffle.

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba: Cabba only unlocks SSJ2 in the anime, correct? In that iteration we see how they mutually engage Monna. Vegeta is dismissed as 'cheap shotting' her but it was notably carried out while the prince was in a nonchalant state untransformed. It may have taken more power for him to remove her from the field one on one but he seemed more than capable of handling Monna without turning Super Saiyan. Cabba needed SSJ2 to overwhelm her though not without some effort on his part.

I could see Vegeta taking this. Between the pair of them he's the more experienced and ruthless. Cabba also has the detriment of his ki gradually depleting thanks to the transformation he's having to maintain.

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe): Hard to say with Hit. Overall he may be stronger than Goku Black as this is two arcs later and Goku still needed blue to contend with Hit when he secretly hired the assassin to go after himself. The fight would need to be won soon, though, as Black continuously grows more powerful the more he's pressured. A dimensional rupture purposefully aiding Black by manifesting gaseous clans that reform on impact and multiply will only complicate things further.

Hit also is capable of improving his Time Skip ability in the anime. Although when against both a similar perk from his opponent plus an ever growing number of support fighters, he's going to be whittled down. Hit either wins early on or he's eventually worn down and loses thanks to attrition.

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron: The strongest we see Super 17 is after he absorbs Goku's kamikaze attack, right? The Saiyan was crippled by blindness when fighting Syn Shenron and at half power. I might deviate from the norm in saying the Super 17 can win this, especially if he's able to absorb his opponent's ki attacks. Please keep in mind that I'm not too familiar with GT.

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken): We have nothing to go off of for Krillin at this time besides being considered usable energy for powering Gero up. Almost all of the power that was intended to reinforce the cyborg was likely going to come from Piccolo, though. Having said that, we do see Tenshinhan avoid a Bionic Punisher beam in tandem with base Goku and Krillin is the strongest human. I'll go ahead and say Krillin wins against this iteration of Goku by virtue of being superior to the Tenshinhan who reacted in similar fashion to Goku.

[ZombieVito]

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe)

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken)

Cell one shots.
Cabba powers down to Super Saiyan, laughs and finger flicks Vegeta.
Hit is weaker but broken thanks to his Time abilities. Black's only chance is to use his clones to get a clean hit on... Hit.
I have no idea. 17 I guess thanks to infinite stamina and Ki absorption.
I actually have Krillin stronger here but not by a lot. Goku can pull the win thanks to skill but it's going to be very hard to do.

[Thani]

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe)

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken)

1) SPC is still a "SS2 tier" opponent. Goku haven't improved so much as to approach SS2 Gohan in just his regular SS. Even regular Perfect Cell should win this.

2) Cabba, easily. Cabba haven't exactly stopped training as well, and they were comparable in their normal states, so SS2 Cabba should defeat Vegeta if he himself can't transform.

3) Black's scythe can tear rifts into space and time, so he actually has a way to counter Hit's technique. Would the Time Cage work on Black? Maybe? If Hit actually hits Black with it, then sure, I can see him immobilizing Black.

4) I actually think they're equal to one another, as in, both stronger than regular SS4 Goku. So it's a tie - Syn never tired during his fight, so I assume the dragon ball is sourcing him some kind of energy.

5) Goku by the end of Namek sits at 3.000.000. Can Krillin defeat that? Probably not. He wasn't stated to be even close to the saiyans in their normal forms, and his own training methods never really gave him much returns. I'll stick with Goku because, in fact, he is a better martial artist then Krillin.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSJ1 Goku (start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell

Base Vegeta (End of ToP) vs SSJ2 Cabba

Hit (Post-ToP anime) vs SSJR Goku Black (peak, scythe)

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Krillin (Cell Games) vs Base Goku (End of Namek arc, no Kaioken)

1. In the anime Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks, so he finger clicks. Manga he’s not so powerful, but we see this very fight in the first chapter with Goku as the winner.

2. Surprisingly, I actually have Vegeta taking this. Unless SSJBE is like a 10,000x multiplier Vegeta must have gotten pretty strong fighting Jiren.

3. I have them fairly close, but I think Hit’s assassin techniques can overpower Black and his scythe and clones.

4. Shenron has more impressive feats, but 17 could win due to stamina and I’m not sure if Shenron could figure that out in time.

5. Goku one shots.