"Ultimate Uncut Edition" DVDs Discussion

[VegettoEX]

This thread is for the general discussion of the "Ultimate Uncut Edition" DVDs, and comparisons among other respecitve & correlating releases. It is in direct response to the April 2005 "Feature."

Thank you for staying on-topic at all times!

[laserkid]

Hm I don't think I need to do my own review now as this is almost exactly how I felt. Although I did not know about the Dragonbox quality diffrences, thats just...wow.

[Heritic]

I found a minor error in the review. It really is minor but I just thought I'd let you know. It was in the paragraph talking about the "Nimbus Cloud" feature.

The only think that irked me about this feature is that since it's done via a subtitle track, you can't watch with this with other subtitles at the same time.

It was nice to see a review even though I was planning on buying the "Ultimate Uncut" anyway, I like to see what I'm getting for my money. The Spanish track is definitely unexpected.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

You don't need to remind us that you aren't a fan of the dub a thousand times~!

>_<

[Jimu00]

Very nice review that pretty much said most of what I was thinking. The only other thing that's irking me with this release is the low episode count. With a series this long, FUNimation needs to take lessons from Bandai and do 5-episode dual layer discs.

[VegettoEX]

You don't need to remind us that you aren't a fan of the dub a thousand times~!

>_<

You don't need to whine about a personal preference in someone's review.

But seriously, when it's with respect to different aspects (script, dialogue, music), I took them all as separate things and reviewed them individually. That's called "being thorough."

(You seem to have huge recurring problems with me, the way I write, the way I run this forum, etc. I don't even understand why you're still here.)

And with that, I'll kindly guide this thread back on track.

[ruffriles19]

Very nice review that pretty much said most of what I was thinking. The only other thing that's irking me with this release is the low episode count. With a series this long, FUNimation needs to take lessons from Bandai and do 5-episode dual layer discs.

We all wish that, but unfortunately it's probably not going to happen. They have already set a standard for 3-ep (occasionally 4) releases with all the other Z and GT DVDs. With those DVDs being quite successful financially, it's not likely they would change now. They may go to 4-ep releases at some point in the ultimate uncuts, but I wouldn't stake too much on it. It really isn't that unusual, most other anime DVDs also use 3 or 4 episode releases. Bandai's discs and other releases such as the original DB discs are the exception, not the norm, I believe.

[Mattias]

The graininess of the overall picture on the DVDs seems to be a piss-off. I mean, if TOEI went the extra distance to fully clean and polish every frame, what kept FUNimation from doing the same? Lack of budget (cough)? Time constraints?

I'm starting to wonder of the copies of the episodes that TOEI sent to FUNimation. Is it also possible that they're difficult to fully remaster since the copies that FUNi owns are not originals? Or are they actually just a different set and I'm just spewing a bunch of bullcrap as a result?

This seems less appealing to me the more I read about it. Maybe I'll just collect the graphic novels that Viz releases. I'll probably end up saving loads of cash in the end.

[DBW]

Is it also possible that they're difficult to fully remaster since the copies that FUNi owns are not originals?

Yeah, FUNimation's copies are at least 3rd generation, possibly even 4th generation. I'm not sure how they recieve the copies, but I'm guessing it's on some form of cassette, which means it'll also degrade over time spent in their possession as well. As for the "remastering", FUNi uses the term pretty loosely. It looks like all they did (similar to all DBZ releases) was simply run the image through a filter and turn up the black level, which helps to hide imperfections such as grain.
The positives: Gives the animation a harder/sharper look, helps to hide damage to the video.
The negatives: Finer details in the animation are occasionally lost and the colors are flat-out wrong.
As for the zoom, I'm 99% certain that Toei did that when they made the 2nd generation copies. The animation cels were sometimes misaligned when photographed, and zooming in on the image would gaurantee no visible animation errors.

Dragon Box, on the other hand, used the original 16mm reels of film. These likely have never been touched since the original 2nd generation copies were made, so naturally they're already in beautiful condition. They re-framed the images that were misaligned, allowing for the entire image to be available on-screen. They also did frame-by-frame digital remastering.

Given the materials that FUNi has, I'd say that their video quality is pretty damn good. Even if they wanted to truly remaster the video, they just don't have all the necessary material (ie. the original prints), so it would really be a waste of time for them. I think it's wrong for them to advertise these disks as something special (they seem pretty run of the mill to me), but I must admit that they've done a pretty decent job here!

[Mattias]

Yeah, you can only do so much with copies of what you receive.

But when you input a scene from film to computer, isn't it always possible to actually dive in and clean everything up manually? I know it would be a total pain in the ass, and would take a painfully long time, but would this have been an option for FUNimation to consider if they had the time?

I know absolutely nothing about photo and video editing so I ask that nobody jumps down my throat for these. I'm just trying to make discussion.

[DBW]

Well, with Dragon Box the image was very clean to begin with, so actually not very much was done to it. I'm sure they ran it through a filter or something to reduce the grain, but the majority of the Dragon Box remastering involves repairing damage to the film (burn marks, scratches, etc.). When you look at the comparison clips provided on Dragon Box Z Volume 2, aside from repaired scratches on the film, the images are virtually identical.

The problem is that FUNimation's source material is just way too grainy to begin with. I'd actually say that they've done all that they can do, aside from going through frame-by-frame and intricately reducing the grain with a more sophisticated filter or tool. The problem is, the more you "clean up", the more of the original image gets altered. No matter what they do, the fact remains that their source material is grainy, and aside from severely altering the images any further (ie. losing details, screwing up the colors), there is nothing they can do.

[ruffriles19]

I was wondering something:

The quality difference between the Dragonboxes and the Funi DVDs seems to be significant, at least from the examples of Ultimate Uncut Vol. 1. My question is, is this quality difference indicative of the rest of the series? Do all of the other DVD episodes, from Freeza to Cell to Buu, also have this kind of quality difference from the Dragonboxes? Or is it just these early episodes we are talking about? I don't know much about the Dragonboxes themselves, and I never realized that there was a quality difference at all until I read this feature!
The same question could go for the original DB series DVDs, too.

[MyVisionity]

Heh. 'All the dirt on the "Ultimate Uncut Editions"'

I just got that..

[sangofe]

Hm I don't think I need to do my own review now as this is almost exactly how I felt. Although I did not know about the Dragonbox quality diffrences, thats just...wow.

What have I been saying about the Dragonbox all the time?
I remember how people didn't agree with me, oh well.
I'm happy to own the Dragonbox, and checked this out.
For once, the extras were interesting.

Great that they used the spanish dub too (wonder why they didn't do on their earlier episodes? Cost funi to much?)

[DBW]

My question is, is this quality difference indicative of the rest of the series?

As far as color saturation and distortion goes, yes, FUNi used the same "remastering" system for all of DB/Z/GT. As for the grain issue, I don't know...

I can tell you that the Dragon Box release maintains the same level of quality throughout, so you can really only compare FUNi's releases against themselves. Assuming DBZ episode 1 was the worst looking FUNi episode to date, just check other episodes based off that episode. Although I'd assume that the later episodes will continue looking better and better (since the source material is getting more and more recent).

[Kodoshin]

I think the weirdest thing is the best looking batch of episodes from the Funi discs for any DB series (IMO) is easily the Piccolo Daimao stuff from the original DB.

And thats with a great number of episodes on the discs and even older source materials.

[FDLink]

What's the dub music like? Is it Falcouner or Menza, or the original goodness?

[Jimu00]

What's the dub music like? Is it Falcouner or Menza, or the original goodness?

It's done by Falcouner, everyone's favorite "composer."

Also, there's something else that I've been pondering. I bought the box set for the "Vegeta Saga I" yesterday, and it has room for only seven DVDs. Now, at FUNimation's current usual of of three episode a disc, there will only be approximately 21 episodes to this "saga". With the entire Vegeta Saga in Japan being 36 episodes long, it seems as if there'll be a 5 DVD "Vegeta Saga II" set. At their current pace of releasing two of these DVDs every two months or so, it's going to take us a whole year just to reach Namek...

[laserkid]

Its actually not Falcouner, just to point out.

[Jimu00]

Its actually not Falcouner, just to point out.

Really, it's not? I could've sworn that I read somewhere that it was. Who is it then?