Episode #0285 (15 January 2012)

[Piccolo Daimao]

I definitely think there's a lack of distinction between homosexual and pedophile here. But anyway, pedophiles aren't anything new to Dragon Ball. How old is Bulma? What does Roshi do/want to do/say to her?

That wouldn't make Roshi a paedophile; it would make him sharing some characteristics of an ephebephile. But technically, it's not wrong, as a lot of people have been convicted on underage sex charges if they've slept with a 16-year-old girl, but she's lied about their age or they simply didn't know she was underage, because a lot of teenagers do look like adults.

[batistabus]

I definitely think there's a lack of distinction between homosexual and pedophile here. But anyway, pedophiles aren't anything new to Dragon Ball. How old is Bulma? What does Roshi do/want to do/say to her?

That wouldn't make Roshi a paedophile; it would make him a hebephile or something. But technically, it's not wrong, as a lot of people have been convicted on underage sex charges if they've slept with a 16-year-old girl, but she's lied about their age or they simply didn't know she was underage, because a lot of teenagers do look like adults.

I'm not really sure what the difference is between those terms, but they seem to be similar enough to be included in the same discussion. I don't know what that unintentional underage sex charge has to do with anything. Roshi doesn't care how old she is, as long as he can see/"puff puff" her boobies.

[Craddle]

mp3 Download link does not appear to be working. (Never had this issue before.)

Edit: Working fine VIA podcast page.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I definitely think there's a lack of distinction between homosexual and pedophile here. But anyway, pedophiles aren't anything new to Dragon Ball. How old is Bulma? What does Roshi do/want to do/say to her?

That wouldn't make Roshi a paedophile; it would make him a hebephile or something. But technically, it's not wrong, as a lot of people have been convicted on underage sex charges if they've slept with a 16-year-old girl, but she's lied about their age or they simply didn't know she was underage, because a lot of teenagers do look like adults.

I'm not really sure what the difference is between those terms, but they seem to be similar enough to be included in the same discussion. I don't know what that unintentional underage sex charge has to do with anything. Roshi doesn't care how old she is, as long as he can see/"puff puff" her boobies.

It's like this:

Paedophilia: Sexual preference for prepubescent children (age 10 and under)
Hebephilia: Sexual preference for newly pubescent children (starting puberty; ages 11 to 14)
Ephebephilia: Sexual preference for pubescent children (ages 15 to 19)

There are other paraphilias, such as one that refers to exclusive sexual attraction to elderly people, but it's more distinct than what the media tells us. A lot of those that have these may or may not be exclusively attracted to these age groups. Under many laws around the world, a child is classed as under 18, so I guess, technically, you could be prosecuted on paedophilia charges if you were in possession of sexual material of or flat-out molested a child under 18. Or it could just be treated as sexual abuse. Likewise, a 16-year-old can be prosecuted if he has sex with a 13-year-old girl, being that she's under the legal age you can have sex (16 in the UK; not sure about elsewhere). I think it might differ depending on gender, but I'm not sure. I'm not the biggest expert on this.

But no, Roshi doesn't know how old he is, but she still looks as if she has the body of an adult. So he's a pervert, but he's not a paedophilic pervert. And he only ever goes as far as blackmailing her to let him touch her breasts, which is still bad, but at least he doesn't rape her or anything. And he's not attracted to 12-year-old Chi-Chi, who has breasts. So he obviously has standards.

[Craddle]

If Wikipedia was up, I'd go and search it, but from what I can remember, it's something like this:

Paedophilia: Sexual attraction to prepubescent children (age 11 and under)
Ephebephilia: Sexual attraction to newly pubescent children (starting puberty; ages 11 to 14)
Hebephilia: Sexual attraction to pubescent children (ages 14 to 17)

Wikipedia works fine. You have to stop the page from loading completely in order to use it though.

[tinlunlau]

I recently watched the scene as TVB has just aired the episode intact just a couple of weeks ago and the whole pedophile scene just irks me. It was pretty damned creepy. I just downloaded the podcast episode so I haven't heard it yet. I'll lay down my thoughts later.

[SHINOBI-03]

You know, there's another scene that kinda irked me. In the Taopaipai visiting Karin filler, we see Goku sleeping with Upa. It's not the part of them sleeping together what irked me, it was Goku himself. He was having... dirty thoughts... and he was enjoying it! Why would a pure boy like him enjoy dreams filled with sexual content like these? Puberty?! Got bored of the usual food heaven?!

[TripleRach]

You know, there's another scene that kinda irked me. In the Taopaipai visiting Karin filler, we see Goku sleeping with Upa. It's not the part of them sleeping together what irked me, it was Goku himself. He was having... dirty thoughts... and he was enjoying it! Why would a pure boy like him enjoy dreams filled with sexual content like these? Puberty?! Got bored of the usual food heaven?!

I haven't watched that episode in a while, but I never got the impression that he was really thinking dirty. It just seemed like he thought the memory was funny.

[Gyt Kaliba]

You know, there's another scene that kinda irked me. In the Taopaipai visiting Karin filler, we see Goku sleeping with Upa. It's not the part of them sleeping together what irked me, it was Goku himself. He was having... dirty thoughts... and he was enjoying it! Why would a pure boy like him enjoy dreams filled with sexual content like these? Puberty?! Got bored of the usual food heaven?!

I haven't watched that episode in a while, but I never got the impression that he was really thinking dirty. It just seemed like he thought the memory was funny.

It's been a while since I saw it too, but I do remember the scene and I got the same kind of feeling from it as you did. I guess it's possible though that it WAS a dirty dream and Goku being Goku just...didn't really get the full 'effect' or whatever? I know what I'm trying to say but I'm having trouble putting it into words for some reason.

As for the show topic, I'm downloading it now to listen. I'm definitely in support of more episodes discussing smaller parts of the franchise like this one, as it's one of the things that gets me listening the fastest.

[Piccolo Daimao]

You know, there's another scene that kinda irked me. In the Taopaipai visiting Karin filler, we see Goku sleeping with Upa. It's not the part of them sleeping together what irked me, it was Goku himself. He was having... dirty thoughts... and he was enjoying it! Why would a pure boy like him enjoy dreams filled with sexual content like these? Puberty?! Got bored of the usual food heaven?!

Yeah, like TripleRach, I get the impression that he just thought the memory was funny. That, or he was remembering how good it felt to rest on her genitalia, like how he liked sleeping on Grandpa Gohan's genitalia. I don't think he was having sexual thoughts or anything, since I don't believe he'd reached puberty yet, was relatively asexual and (presumably) had only just grasped how to tell the difference between male and female in areas other than just genitalia (when he said that Upa was male [in contrast to Kuririn mistaking him for a cute girl], he told Kuririn that he was getting better at being able to tell the difference between boys and girls). I think Goku only ever reached puberty in the years he was training under God, since even at the 22nd TB, when he was 15, he still looked like a little kid and had only gotten taller. Then, at the 23rd TB, all of a sudden, he was an adult who was even taller than Bulma.

[Super Vejito]

Goku was thinking back to it as something funny, which IMO is a little out of character, because he usually doesn't even seem to understand why people get upset with him for his behaviour involving genitalia. But yeah, I didn't get anything sexual out of it either. Goku in general is probably the most asexual character ever.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Goku was thinking back to it as something funny, which IMO is a little out of character, because he usually doesn't even seem to understand why people get upset with him for his behaviour involving genitalia.

I would assume that he found it funny females didn't have testicles, and/or linking it to Bulma's horror at her discovery that she had no panties on when she flashed Old Man Roshi, because, IIRC, he found that funny at the time too. He said something like, "Haha, you don't need those parts to survive anyway!"

And I think he might understand a little more about why people get upset with him for his behaviour involving genitalia, considering how many people have objected to his "pat-pat". And he has been educated by Kame-sennin and has somewhat became more "aware" since then. Like my example of him knowing that Upa was a boy, in contrast to Kuririn mistaking him for a girl.

[Cipher]

Also, in response to Cipher's post, whether or not Obotchaman's an android doesn't matter. Blue didn't know that, and he still looks like a prepubescent child.

My post wasn't meant to defend the scene on the principle of Obotchaman being an android. My question was whether or not he was ever strongly implied to have been specifically a child android, a la Arale. Otherwise he could simply have been one of those oddly-sized adults like Suppa Man we see in Toriyama-land, where distinctions in proportion clear to the viewer don't necessarily carry over to the characters.

But it sounds like, sure enough, he was a childbot from day one. So it really is as skeevy as it seems.

[Super Vejito]

I would assume that he found it funny females didn't have testicles, and/or linking it to Bulma's horror at her discovery that she had no panties on when she flashed Old Man Roshi, because, IIRC, he found that funny at the time too. He said something like, "Haha, you don't need those parts to survive anyway!"

This is reasonable. As far as filler goes it's not that bad and I enjoyed that part, with Tao Pai Pai climbing Karin Tower. Just kind of makes me wonder why they put it in, but the answer seems rather obvious. :p

[Piccolo Daimao]

Also, in response to Cipher's post, whether or not Obotchaman's an android doesn't matter. Blue didn't know that, and he still looks like a prepubescent child.

My post wasn't meant to defend the scene on the principle of Obotchaman being an android. My question was whether or not he was ever strongly implied to have been specifically a child android, a la Arale. Otherwise he could simply have been one of those oddly-sized adults like Suppa Man we see in Toriyama-land, where distinctions in proportion clear to the viewer don't necessarily carry over to the characters.

But it sounds like, sure enough, he was a childbot from day one. So it really is as skeevy as it seems.

OK then, that's fine.

[Ashura]

Since the scripting is completely different, how did this scene go down in the Blue Water version? I've never seen this episode with that dub before.

It would be interesting to see how other international dubs handled this oddity as well.

[Ashura]

Also, this scene was mentioned in general in the thread, but not really discussed at all:





While I know the joke is meant to be pretty innocent (a means to an end for Toriyama to get to 'No Balls!'), I always found the setup pretty bizarre. Goku is weirded out because he's used to laying his head in his Grandpa's lap, which he used to do often? Is there some sort of cultural thing in Japan that makes this ok? This situation in real life -- at least in America -- elder Gohan would probably be at least investigated for child abuse and try to come up for a reason why his grandson likes feeling his balls on the back of his head.

(note, these are from my own personal remaster of the Japanese Dragon Boxes... they're not web rips, so please do not pitchfork me because they don't look like any official release.)

[Piccolo Daimao]

While I know the joke is meant to be pretty innocent (a means to an end for Toriyama to get to 'No Balls!'), I always found the setup pretty bizarre. Goku is weirded out because he's used to laying his head in his Grandpa's lap, which he used to do often? Is there some sort of cultural thing in Japan that makes this ok? This situation in real life -- at least in America -- elder Gohan would probably be at least investigated for child abuse and try to come up for a reason why his grandson likes feeling his balls on the back of his head.

(note, these are from my own personal remaster of the Japanese Dragon Boxes... they're not web rips, so please do not pitchfork me because they don't look like any official release.)

I originally interpreted it as meaning that, when Grandpa Gohan went to sleep, Goku would sleep with his head in his lap, without his knowledge. I don't think Gohan would actually let a child sleep on his testicles. He was apparently good enough to retain his body in the afterlife, and I'm pretty sure paedophilia would remove those rights.

And Goku, being uneducated and having never seen a female before, is freaked out because Bulma didn't have testicles and a penis.

[Ashura]

Yeah, that's pretty much the way that I took it as well. Even still, I'm surprised soccer moms didn't go nuts about it when they went nuts about Goku's peepee in the first comic.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yeah, that's pretty much the way that I took it as well. Even still, I'm surprised soccer moms didn't go nuts about it when they went nuts about Goku's peepee in the first comic.

Perhaps they missed it, or they did go nuts about it. Either way, you don't really see any nudity, just a brief verbal implication that Goku used to sleep on his grandfather's testicles and Goku removing Bulma's panties (which soccer mums may not pick up on, unlike if they're just skimming through their child's manga volume and then they come across naked Goku's dick right in their face).