Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:59 am

Lightningexpose wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:24 pm I won't pretend to understand exactly what Steve Franko is doing there, but to me it looks more like a calibration thing he did for the scanner one time, using that TAF, before scanning the DBZ reels. A far cry from your desire of matching the exact color palette for each character on every single shot of 291 episodes.
He said it right in the video that he was matching the film to the TAF. Is it that hard to believe that real colorist actually do color correction using a reference color chart? What do you think about those color bar that we often saw on CRT TV back in the days was used for?
Lightningexpose wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:24 pm >Or are you really here to argue that a color correction done by blind guess will look better
looking at references for direction, instead of exact color matching, is not "blind guess".
What exactly does "looking at reference for direction" even means? What references are you talking about? You don't even have an accurate reference.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Lightningexpose » Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:19 pm

lansing wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:59 am What exactly does "looking at reference for direction" even means? What references are you talking about? You don't even have an accurate reference.
You don't seem to know what half of the stuff I'm referring to means, and that's fine but why are you still arguing if this is all too complex for you.

"You don't even have an accurate reference". Chief, that's the whole point. When you use multiple references for direction you can use your brain and average out a direction in which to go, meaning you don't need one definitive 100% "accurate" reference for direction. I'm sure you don't understand what this means either. You haven't done much actual color work by the looks of it so naturally you won't understand what someone who's done a lot of color work is saying.
lansing wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:59 am He said it right in the video that he was matching the film to the TAF. Is it that hard to believe that real colorist actually do color correction using a reference color chart? What do you think about those color bar that we often saw on CRT TV back in the days was used for?
Image

This is the first time I'm reading up on TAF but what do you know, it's pretty much what I said it is. You do a one-time calibration of the scanner/telecine using the TAF before scanning the associated stock, so that the scanner/telecine is in a neutral state for it. Same goes for the random CRT bullshit you're talking about...that's calibrating hardware to be as neutral as possible one time before beginning work. Literally not at all the same as getting a color chart for a TV show and making sure all the characters are calibrated to the color chart...LOL

Anyway, I don't think I'll be replying anymore. Literally just running in circles--as you like to say--trying to explain the same basic concepts to you. The toei color chart is useful but you spoke as if nobody has been able to do satisfactory cc without it, which was a braindead comment and what my main point is. If you think I'm wrong, your time is better spent on beginning this color chart match DBZ CC and showing us how revolutionary the color chart's contribution is.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:48 pm

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I tried to make a drawing of Bardock using the Toei color chart, and...first off, I had a hard time trying to get the right colors, and even when I got the right colors, the colors turned out worse than I thought. Should I have put a filter over it or something?
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:59 pm

Lightningexpose wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:19 pm You don't seem to know what half of the stuff I'm referring to means, and that's fine but why are you still arguing if this is all too complex for you.

"You don't even have an accurate reference". Chief, that's the whole point. When you use multiple references for direction you can use your brain and average out a direction in which to go, meaning you don't need one definitive 100% "accurate" reference for direction. I'm sure you don't understand what this means either. You haven't done much actual color work by the looks of it so naturally you won't understand what someone who's done a lot of color work is saying.
There is no logic in your reasoning. Averaging a typical color from random images you found online where you don't know where they come from and how they are make, that is blind guessing.
Lightningexpose wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:19 pm This is the first time I'm reading up on TAF but what do you know, it's pretty much what I said it is. You do a one-time calibration of the scanner/telecine using the TAF before scanning the associated stock, so that the scanner/telecine is in a neutral state for it. Same goes for the random CRT bullshit you're talking about...that's calibrating hardware to be as neutral as possible one time before beginning work. Literally not at all the same as getting a color chart for a TV show and making sure all the characters are calibrated to the color chart...LOL
After more look up on the case, I was wrong on how the matching process goes, but your understanding were not even close.

Each type of film came with a TAF of its own. The TAF was consisted of a reference color chart and a gray scale for the typical film type. The TAF was used to reproduce the color of the film when doing transfers of different mediums. So if we match the color on the TAF to its reference values, we'll reproduce the original intended color of the film, assuming that the film doesn't fade. The TAF was not used to calibrate the telecine because it doesn't make sense. The telecine was just there to offers a color correction functionality at the hardware level. Theoretically you can simply scan the TAF along with the film and do the color matching in software.

And what do you know after all? The TAF is a reference color chart that was used for color matching.
Lightningexpose wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:19 pm Anyway, I don't think I'll be replying anymore. Literally just running in circles--as you like to say--trying to explain the same basic concepts to you. The toei color chart is useful but you spoke as if nobody has been able to do satisfactory cc without it, which was a braindead comment and what my main point is. If you think I'm wrong, your time is better spent on beginning this color chart match DBZ CC and showing us how revolutionary the color chart's contribution is.
The concept of color matching has been proven 4 years ago, like 30+ pages back in this thread. It only seems new to you because you haven't been following the discussion. Start reading from that page because you're lagging 4 years behind.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:03 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:48 pm I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I tried to make a drawing of Bardock using the Toei color chart, and...first off, I had a hard time trying to get the right colors, and even when I got the right colors, the colors turned out worse than I thought. Should I have put a filter over it or something?
The proper way to use the color chart is to use it along with the character color design sheet, where it listed out all the color used for each part of the body. I don't have the sheet for Bardock so I don't know. The only color I found is that his skin base/shadow colors are D-2 and D-3.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Trachta10 » Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:53 pm


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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Scsigs » Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:31 pm

The warped colors in the DBox footage are utterly disgusting.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jjgp1112 » Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:16 am

So pretty much the Level Sets but more vibrant?

Edit: Damn, actually quite a bit different from the Level Sets, too
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by supersaiyamangod » Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:52 am

Awesome this is what I wish even the level sets looked like it’s that good. :)

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:56 am

None of those are even close to be accurate except for the blue on vegeta's suit

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Trachta10 » Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:40 pm

lansing wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:56 am
None of those are even close to be accurate except for the blue on vegeta's suit
I don't think is possible to achieve the exact same color without generating artifacts

we can only attempt approximations to the actual color

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:08 am

Trachta10 wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:40 pm
lansing wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:56 am
None of those are even close to be accurate except for the blue on vegeta's suit
I don't think is possible to achieve the exact same color without generating artifacts

we can only attempt approximations to the actual color
It was still way off even as an approximation attempt.

This is the same images using color matching program, every color are dead on except for the dark blue in vegeta's suit.
https://imgur.com/a/HSTgsU5

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Venny » Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:17 pm

Image

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:23 pm

Venny wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:17 pm Image
Damn the out-of-context framing in this is disgusting. No wonder this Lightningexpose guy aka Enigmo got banned again.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:34 pm

lightningexpose is Enigmo, huh? That explains everything.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Trachta10 » Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:31 am

also some tones of blues and violets seem to be "crushed" in dragon box, which means it is impossible to get an accurate color in the same frame

good look trying to get accurate colors here

Image

kai
Image

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:37 pm

Trachta10 wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:31 am also some tones of blues and violets seem to be "crushed" in dragon box, which means it is impossible to get an accurate color in the same frame

good look trying to get accurate colors here
I don't know, I don't have the dragon box to test it. Though this match looks pretty accurate to me. The blue on Goku's belt and the purple shadow on Piccolo's shirt are relatively the same, so it would just have to pick one over the other. The sky color was probably wrong too since I don't have a reference color for it.

Image

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by supersaiyamangod » Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:33 pm

lansing wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:37 pm
Trachta10 wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:31 am also some tones of blues and violets seem to be "crushed" in dragon box, which means it is impossible to get an accurate color in the same frame

good look trying to get accurate colors here
I don't know, I don't have the dragon box to test it. Though this match looks pretty accurate to me. The blue on Goku's belt and the purple shadow on Piccolo's shirt are relatively the same, so it would just have to pick one over the other. The sky color was probably wrong too since I don't have a reference color for it.

Image
This looks way better and sharper than the Kai screenshot this is the best I’ve ever seen dragon ball z’s first season it looks better than even the level sets.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by nward50987 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:03 pm

Here's a color correction I did on Photoshop CC.
Before
Image
After
Image

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