Unpopular DB opinions

[Soppa Saia People]

Masako Nozawa does not sound like a girl in any of the male roles she plays.

I think normal Goku sounds fine, but when he has his silly moments, he sounds a bit feminine. Nozawa is still great.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I think Chris Rager was the best actor in the old Z dub.

His Mr. Satan was and still is great but I'd have to give that honor to Kent Williams because of all the significant/somewhat significant roles he was able to nail(Tao Pai Pai, Kaioshin, Dr. Gero, Old Kai, etc.).

[Nejishiki]

Masako Nozawa does not sound like a girl in any of the male roles she plays.

I always felt (It's not scientifically supported) that accusation came from fans discovering the voice actor was female. It never crossed my mind when I first watched Dragon Ball. Even decades after the fact, I'm not hearing a feminine pitch. Her resumé roles, and I'm extending this outside of Dragon Ball, sound male outside of her drastically different female castings. Dr. Kureha does not feel like a Goku read at all, for one example. Just to be thorough, I understand it's the same "sound" but I find it disingenuous to blanket a popular role as "the voice" for other characters an actor portrays. Johnny Yong Bosch often gets the criticism of "sounding the same" for every role but I think that's more recognizing his sound and unfairly labeling the acting as exact. For both Nozawa and Bosch, the direction is always different for each of their characters. I don't go into Mortal Kombat X thinking, "Kung Jin sounds exactly like Tohru Adachi, so it's him", but it does grind my gears a bit! It's as if the nuances are being deliberately ignored.

[Cipher]

Masako Nozawa does not sound like a girl in any of the male roles she plays.

I agree with this. At least during the show's original run. It's actually shocking to listen to adult Goku at points and imagine a woman is playing him.

Granted, it doesn't sound like a natural male voice either. It's very unique.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I would agree with Nozawa's male roles in DB, particularly Goku being unique. I've met guys with high pitched voices (and not all of them are gay either) and there's still a distinction between their voice and a females, the Son family sounds more in line with the former to me. It's unusual to people who are unfamiliar with guys with that pitch but it seems less unusual the more you get used to hearing it.

[8000 Saiyan]

Masako Nozawa does not sound like a girl in any of the male roles she plays.

I always felt (It's not scientifically supported) that accusation came from fans discovering the voice actor was female. It never crossed my mind when I first watched Dragon Ball. Even decades after the fact, I'm not hearing a feminine pitch. Her resumé roles, and I'm extending this outside of Dragon Ball, sound male outside of her drastically different female castings. Dr. Kureha does not feel like a Goku read at all, for one example. Just to be thorough, I understand it's the same "sound" but I find it disingenuous to blanket a popular role as "the voice" for other characters an actor portrays. Johnny Yong Bosch often gets the criticism of "sounding the same" for every role but I think that's more recognizing his sound and unfairly labeling the acting as exact. For both Nozawa and Bosch, the direction is always different for each of their characters. I don't go into Mortal Kombat X thinking, "Kung Jin sounds exactly like Tohru Adachi, so it's him", but it does grind my gears a bit! It's as if the nuances are being deliberately ignored.

Some people just don't understand that acting well is more important than knowing how to do various voices. It's the same thing with film or stage acting. Actors don't need to know how to do accents to be good, they need to act well. Unfortunately those actors are deemed as just playing themselves in every movie, while the actors who transform themselves and use accents are considered real actors.

[kinisking]

Masako Nozawa does not sound like a girl in any of the male roles she plays.

I always felt (It's not scientifically supported) that accusation came from fans discovering the voice actor was female. It never crossed my mind when I first watched Dragon Ball. Even decades after the fact, I'm not hearing a feminine pitch. Her resumé roles, and I'm extending this outside of Dragon Ball, sound male outside of her drastically different female castings. Dr. Kureha does not feel like a Goku read at all, for one example. Just to be thorough, I understand it's the same "sound" but I find it disingenuous to blanket a popular role as "the voice" for other characters an actor portrays. Johnny Yong Bosch often gets the criticism of "sounding the same" for every role but I think that's more recognizing his sound and unfairly labeling the acting as exact. For both Nozawa and Bosch, the direction is always different for each of their characters. I don't go into Mortal Kombat X thinking, "Kung Jin sounds exactly like Tohru Adachi, so it's him", but it does grind my gears a bit! It's as if the nuances are being deliberately ignored.

Some people just don't understand that acting well is more important than knowing how to do various voices. It's the same thing with film or stage acting. Actors don't need to know how to do accents to be good, they need to act well. Unfortunately those actors are deemed as just playing themselves in every movie, while the actors who transform themselves and use accents are considered real actors.

Some people don't understand opinions even though they're in a thread with opinions as a main focus

[RisanF]

Kid Goku is better than Adult Goku

This is something I've been mulling over for some time, and it doesn't really apply to GT Kid Goku (who's really just Adult Goku in a child's body), but I keep coming back to this conclusion. To me, Goku is generally more interesting as the little butterball monkey boy than the super-buff muscle man he became. There's something intrinsically fun about seeing a little kid hold his own against giant-sized fighters, and I think you lose that drama once you make him just as macho-looking as his opponents. I like his Monkey King paraphernalia (Nyoibo and Kinto'un), his Achilles-heel tail, Jan-Ken, and all the stuff that was left by the wayside when Z rolled around. I also like that he's just barely super-human, and stuff like dodging bullets and taking down military vehicles can still be considered impressive by early Dragon Ball standards.

Moreover, there are things about Kid Goku's character that seem to gel better, mainly because Toriyama hadn't yet doubled-down on certain aspects of his personality. Ever since Goku became an adult, his character development has concentrated a lot more on his vices, while early Dragon Ball stories focus more on his good nature and his simple, pragmatic way of solving problems (beat 'em all up!). Kid Goku feels more warm-hearted and attached to his friends (observe his pure joy when reunited with his grandpa!), while Adult Goku has been increasingly written as aloof and uninvolved. Sometimes, he even seems smarter than Adult Goku, able to outsmart opponents like Buyon and manage his quest in the Red Ribbon Saga all by himself (although part of this could be based on the idea that childlike nativity is a bit cuter in a little kid than it is in a grown man).

This leads into my final point: Kid Goku is capable of carrying a plot pretty much on his own. While Dragon Ball Z Goku is often on the sidelines leaving the others to pick up the slack, Dragon Ball can have "All Goku, All The Time" and still have a compelling hero.

[Doctor.]

Kid Goku is better than Adult Goku

I don't think is unpopular. Many people (especially here) prefer the original DB to Z, so they'll probably prefer kid Goku to adult Goku as well. It's one of those opinions that isn't either popular or unpopular, no matter which side you're on, the fanbase is pretty divided.

I completely disagree however, so I'm gonna try to counter your points.

his Achilles-heel tail (...) I also like that he's just barely super-human, and stuff like dodging bullets and taking down military vehicles can still be considered impressive by early Dragon Ball standards.

He got over the weakness on his tail by the 22nd Budokai and he didn't even have it for about half of his screentime before that point.

Goku was already incredibly superhuman in DB. Characters like Piccolo and Roshi blew up cities and moons, which means Goku could too. He jumped to the stratosphere after his training with Roshi. He stopped being "just barely superhuman" and transformed into an absolute monster after the first arc. In fact, his training with Roshi was for that purpose: to break the barrier between human and superhuman.

(beat 'em all up!).

You mean "kill them all", right? I know he's a kid, but Goku's hypocrisy when it comes to killing relatively innocent people of the Red Ribbon Army is disgusting. At least adult Goku gives everyone a shot at showing if they're truly evil or not.

Kid Goku feels more warm-hearted and attached to his friends (observe his pure joy when reunited with his grandpa!),

Why do you think this? Just because he cried? Kids usually tend to cry much more than adults, it doesn't mean adult Goku cares less about his friends. The fact that he turned Super Saiyan and almost completely gave in to the rage and almost became a different person after Kuririn died should be proof enough.

Sometimes, he even seems smarter than Adult Goku, able to outsmart opponents like Buyon and manage his quest in the Red Ribbon Saga all by himself (although part of this could be based on the idea that childlike nativity is a bit cuter in a little kid than it is in a grown man).

I think Super's portrayal of Goku is just swaying your opinion too much here. Adult Goku was far smarter in battle, he outsmarted Piccolo Jr. at every turn, came up with various strategies mid-battle against Vegeta and Freeza and came up with the plan to defeat Cell (though how effective it was is debatable).

Kid Goku is capable of carrying a plot pretty much on his own.

I completely disagree and you just have to look at the first arc, where Goku needs Bulma and Oolong to be even remotely interesting and even then he's overshadowed by those two, to see how that isn't completely true. The Red Ribbon Army wasn't late to reintroduce the other characters back into the plot soon after Goku left alone, either.

While Dragon Ball Z Goku is often on the sidelines leaving the others to pick up the slack, Dragon Ball can have "All Goku, All The Time" and still have a compelling hero.

Again, completely disagree. It's Goku's reckless and dubious decision that makes the plot move at all in the second part of the series, and it's also what makes both the plot and the character interesting. Kid Goku in contrast is too bland and everything in the plot happens to him, not because of him. As such, you could replace kid Goku with anyone else, and the plot would be pretty much the same. Replace adult Goku and everything would be much different. Also this is another point that you didn't bring up, but I feel like it's necessary, adult Goku had much more development and additional characterization than kid Goku.

[RisanF]

He got over the weakness on his tail by the 22nd Budokai and he didn't even have it for about half of his screentime before that point.

Goku was already incredibly superhuman in DB. Characters like Piccolo and Roshi blew up cities and moons, which means Goku could too. He jumped to the stratosphere after his training with Roshi. He stopped being "just barely superhuman" and transformed into an absolute monster after the first arc. In fact, his training with Roshi was for that purpose: to break the barrier between human and superhuman.

That doesn't really discount what I've said, though. It's true that there are some Z-level feats in early Dragon Ball, but for the most part, action is still kept on a relatively human scale. Characters don't fly, they can get harmed by conventional firepower, and events like the destruction of the moon are more like outliers than the standard to base everything off of. Actually, even in early DBZ stuff, action is more human than the "destroying galaxies" level the series is at now (Goku and Piccolo run at Raditz instead of flying, Krillin can be menaced by a machine gun in The World's Strongest, and the environment in Dead Zone is well used as an interesting set piece)

You mean "kill them all", right? I know he's a kid, but Goku's hypocrisy when it comes to killing relatively innocent people of the Red Ribbon Army is disgusting. At least adult Goku gives everyone a shot at showing if they're truly evil or not.

Yes, Dragon Ball doesn't have a mature, realistic outlook on morality, but at the very least, Goku seems to be operating on some idea of justice (stopping back guys). A lot of Goku's mercy as an adult seems to be tied to "risking the world to have a good fight by letting Piccolo/Vegeta go", so Dragon Ball Z doesn't have a mature, realistic outlook on morality either.

Why do you think this? Just because he cried? Kids usually tend to cry much more than adults, it doesn't mean adult Goku cares less about his friends. The fact that he turned Super Saiyan and almost completely gave in to the rage and almost became a different person after Kuririn died should be proof enough.

Goku was ecstatic by the mere idea that Grandpa Gohan could live with him, and disappointed when he had to leave so suddenly. I don't know if Adult Goku would've been written like that, with the whole "Goku doesn't understand family" idea Toriyama is operating off of these days. I agree Goku's rage over Krillin's death is one of his more emotional moments, and it even makes Goku's decision to let Frieza reach 100% and them humiliate him more understandable (revenge is pretty easy to understand). The issues I'm describing with Adult Goku are a gradual thing, and took a while to set in, but as Dragon Ball continues. we see less and less of Goku the Father and Goku the Friend than we do of Goku the Fighter.

I think Super's portrayal of Goku is just swaying your opinion too much here. Adult Goku was far smarter in battle, he outsmarted Piccolo Jr. at every turn, came up with various strategies mid-battle against Vegeta and Freeza and came up with the plan to defeat Cell (though how effective it was is debatable).

Even so, I still have to take Super Goku's into account when talking Adult Goku, especially since Toriyama's writing seemed to be leading
into this characterization at End of Z. Goku pretends to take Uub away to train to be Earth's next champion, but really just wants another fight with him. At this point, Goku's desire to fight starts feeling a little weird. like he has no other personality traits at all. Dragon Ball at least gives him plots that make Goku interact with the world, instead of isolating him from it.

I completely disagree and you just have to look at the first arc, where Goku needs Bulma and Oolong to be even remotely interesting and even then he's overshadowed by those two, to see how that isn't completely true. The Red Ribbon Army wasn't late to reintroduce the other characters back into the plot soon after Goku left alone, either.

I agree Goku is a passive character in the Pilaf Saga, sleepwalking through much of the plot, with Bulma taking the reins. In the Red Ribbon Saga, however, Goku drives the plot, and now Bulma is along for the ride! Characters flit in and out of the story in the Red Ribbon Saga, but Goku is the only constant, and he's able to entertain us no matter who he's with. Dragon Ball Z stories, on the other hand, tend to be carried by the supporting cast, with Goku showing up only after everything's already gone down.

Again, completely disagree. It's Goku's reckless and dubious decision that makes the plot move at all in the second part of the series, and it's also what makes both the plot and the character interesting. Kid Goku in contrast is too bland and everything in the plot happens to him, not because of him. As such, you could replace kid Goku with anyone else, and the plot would be pretty much the same. Replace adult Goku and everything would be much different. Also this is another point that you didn't bring up, but I feel like it's necessary, adult Goku had much more development and additional characterization than kid Goku.

Goku's reckless decisions would matter more if Dragon Ball Z was interested in a deep exploration of Goku, but it's really not. I understand why this is done: they don't want to mess with Goku's simple and whimsical nature, but what we end up with is the auxiliary characters letting him get away with everything, and nothing having any consequences. I'm not saying Dragon Ball needs to turn into the "No More Forgiveness" story that's on FF.Net, but the exaggeration of his baser nature feels a poor fit for Goku, and he's becoming the most controversial character on this forums. I think the blandness you speak of is simply just regular, old-fashioned hero writing, and I think he needs at least some of that to carry the series.

[Doctor.]

That doesn't really discount what I've said, though. It's true that there are some Z-level feats in early Dragon Ball, but for the most part, action is still kept on a relatively human scale. Characters don't fly, they can get harmed by conventional firepower, and events like the destruction of the moon are more like outliers than the standard to base everything off of. Actually, even in early DBZ stuff, action is more human than the "destroying galaxies" level the series is at now (Goku and Piccolo run at Raditz instead of flying, Krillin can be menaced by a machine gun in The World's Strongest, and the environment in Dead Zone is well used as an interesting set piece)

Characters begun to fly by the 22nd Budokai and firing beams like it was nothing around that point as well (you could even argue that Goku already fired off Kamehamehas excessively even before that point). Sure, it's in "Z" that things get extreme, but the choreography is still 90% hand-to-hand, at least in the manga. I don't see much difference in the fighting of early DB and late DB, to be honest, Toriyama's choreography and panelling is always the same, it's the abilities that kind of get ridiculous, just that.

Yes, Dragon Ball doesn't have a mature, realistic outlook on morality, but at the very least, Goku seems to be operating on some idea of justice (stopping back guys). A lot of Goku's mercy as an adult seems to be tied to "risking the world to have a good fight by letting Piccolo/Vegeta go", so Dragon Ball Z doesn't have a mature, realistic outlook on morality either.

Goku's reasons for letting villains go are sometimes selfish, but I'd argue that he does develop a sense of morality. He tries to let the Ginyu Force go, not because he wanted to fight them again (they were weaklings), but simply out of the kindness of his heart. Same with Freeza, he wanted him way out of his sight forever, and still gave him two chances. Kid Goku would have killed them all outright.

And then when Freeza betrayed him, he started becoming more ruthless again. He repeatedly told Gohan to kill Cell and even said he'd kill Dabura himself. Goku at least has a sense of morality in part 2. And he's not taking innocent lives in the process of "beating up the bad guy" (at least not intentionally).

Goku was ecstatic by the mere idea that Grandpa Gohan could live with him, and disappointed when he had to leave so suddenly. I don't know if Adult Goku would've been written like that, with the whole "Goku doesn't understand family" idea Toriyama is operating off of these days. I agree Goku's rage over Krillin's death is one of his more emotional moments, and it even makes Goku's decision to let Frieza reach 100% and them humiliate him more understandable (revenge is pretty easy to understand). The issues I'm describing with Adult Goku are a gradual thing, and took a while to set in, but as Dragon Ball continues. we see less and less of Goku the Father and Goku the Friend than we do of Goku the Fighter.

Goku sacrificed himself twice for the sake of his son and friends. I don't think "Goku, the friend and father" ever disappeared. It may have been overshadowed by "Goku, the fighter", like you say, but that's only because Goku was out of the spotlight for such a great part of Z. Not really his fault, Toriyama just didn't put him into situations where he could showcase his care for his family and friends, besides the parts where they die lol.

Even so, I still have to take Super Goku's into account when talking Adult Goku, especially since Toriyama's writing seemed to be leading into this characterization at End of Z.

You don't really need to, you can judge the manga as its own seperate thing.

Goku pretends to take Uub away to train to be Earth's next champion, but really just wants another fight with him. At this point, Goku's desire to fight starts feeling a little weird. like he has no other personality traits at all. Dragon Ball at least gives him plots that make Goku interact with the world, instead of isolating him from it.

Goku was just extremely bored by the Boo arc, it makes sense that he'd take Oob and train him to fight him, honestly. Even kid Goku was very concerned with fighting (besides the first arc, maybe).

I agree Goku is a passive character in the Pilaf Saga, sleepwalking through much of the plot, with Bulma taking the reins. In the Red Ribbon Saga, however, Goku drives the plot, and now Bulma is along for the ride! Characters flit in and out of the story in the Red Ribbon Saga, but Goku is the only constant, and he's able to entertain us no matter who he's with. Dragon Ball Z stories, on the other hand, tend to be carried by the supporting cast, with Goku showing up only after everything's already gone down.

The reason adult Goku rarely drives the plot due to his own ambitions isn't because he's uninteresting, though. It's because he doesn't seek trouble, the trouble comes to him. Also the scale is much smaller, Earth is over and done with, and space doesn't seem like something the cast is concerned with. In part 1, Goku had an entire world to explore. If you try to re-enact the search for the Dragon Balls now, it wouldn't work, not because Goku can't drive the story alone, but because they'd be gathered in an instant.

Goku's reckless decisions would matter more if Dragon Ball Z was interested in a deep exploration of Goku, but it's really not. I understand why this is done: they don't want to mess with Goku's simple and whimsical nature, but what we end up with is the auxiliary characters letting him get away with everything, and nothing having any consequences. I'm not saying Dragon Ball needs to turn into the "No More Forgiveness" story that's on FF.Net, but the exaggeration of his baser nature feels a poor fit for Goku, and he's becoming the most controversial character on this forums. I think the blandness you speak of is simply just regular, old-fashioned hero writing, and I think he needs at least some of that to carry the series.

I agree that Goku's fuck ups are rarely utilized as a way to develop the character, but I think he gets punished enough. Goku's actions actually have a consequence on the characters and world around, and you can count on one hand the characters who agree with his decisions in every arc. Vegeta, Piccolo and Bulma are usually first to call Goku out on his reckless and dangerous decisions. I'd say his actions have consequences, he had to stay dead for 7 years and miss his son's teen years (something he laments over in the Boo arc) for basically being the reason as to why the Cell arc even existed in the first place. Battle of Gods functions as his redemption and him taking up the mantle of a Hero (for a short while, at least), whilst F tackles precisely his recklessness and cocky nature (though I agree that the story never goes anywhere with it besides having Freeza blow up the Earth, but that's more of a fault on the story itself than Goku as a character).

[Draconic]

A similar situation with the meeting of Grandpa Gohan in Z is when Goku meets Goten for the first time. It is more laid back than the first one, but you can tell Goku is genuinely happy to meet his son. Meeting the rest is more akin to him meeting them at the 23rd Budokai, where he knows everybody already and enjoys seeing what they've been up to since then, but it is the first time he meets his newborn kid and the moment is treated as such.

There are fewer ocasions to showcase Goku as the friend/family man in Z, especially since by that time his main trait became his fighting attitude, but they do exist and are done very well.

[Steven Bloodriver]

1) Hakaishin Beerus being invincible, in spite of several characters being capable of killing him.

2) Future Zamasu and Merged Zamasu being invincible because of their Immortality, despite the Mafūba and a powerful enough Spirit Bomb being capable of killing them.

3) Those behind Dragon Ball Super not giving a quack about giving their villains insane advantages over everyone, and just wanting to roll in that dough.

4) Not turning the Universe 6 vs. Universe 7 Tournament For Earth Saga into a movie, like what they did before Dragon Ball Super was conceived.

P.S. While not normally used in such a way, a skilled user could use the Mafūba to send their target into the very nexus of a Black Hole like the one located in the center of the Milky Way.

[Bansho64]

1) Hakaishin Beerus being invincible, in spite of several characters being capable of killing him.

2) Future Zamasu and Merged Zamasu being invincible because of their Immortality, despite the Mafūba and a powerful enough Spirit Bomb being capable of killing them.

3) Those behind Dragon Ball Super not giving a quack about giving their villains insane advantages over everyone, and just wanting to roll in that dough.

4) Not turning the Universe 6 vs. Universe 7 Tournament For Earth Saga into a movie, like what they did before Dragon Ball Super was conceived.

Aren't these things that grind your gears instead of unpopular opinions?

[kinisking]

1) Hakaishin Beerus being invincible, in spite of several characters being capable of killing him.

2) Future Zamasu and Merged Zamasu being invincible because of their Immortality, despite the Mafūba and a powerful enough Spirit Bomb being capable of killing them.

3) Those behind Dragon Ball Super not giving a quack about giving their villains insane advantages over everyone, and just wanting to roll in that dough.

4) Not turning the Universe 6 vs. Universe 7 Tournament For Earth Saga into a movie, like what they did before Dragon Ball Super was conceived.

P.S. While not normally used in such a way, a skilled user could use the Mafūba to send their target into the very nexus of a Black Hole like the one located in the center of the Milky Way.

People were complaining about lack of tension and how everyone was so weak in the u6 tournament arc and now this? I mean every main villian has had an over whelming advantage. It creates tension. Freeza had like 4 forms for a reason.

[kinisking]

I think Super's portrayal of Goku is just swaying your opinion too much here. Adult Goku was far smarter in battle, he outsmarted Piccolo Jr. at every turn, came up with various strategies mid-battle against Vegeta and Freeza and came up with the plan to defeat Cell (though how effective it was is debatable).

I agree with everything besides for this. Supers goku is still pretty smart in battle. He stopped the universe destroying waves, his body froze up against beerus in episode 5, he fought against a dude that could stop time and he gave vegeta advice against Magetta's.

I also disagree with the "plan" against cell being smart. Knowing your kid is super powerful and using him to best a super powerful enemy isnt smart. It's common sense. He even acted pretty stupidly for not telling Gohan in advance.

[RisanF]

Goku's reasons for letting villains go are sometimes selfish, but I'd argue that he does develop a sense of morality. He tries to let the Ginyu Force go, not because he wanted to fight them again (they were weaklings), but simply out of the kindness of his heart. Same with Freeza, he wanted him way out of his sight forever, and still gave him two chances. Kid Goku would have killed them all outright.

And then when Freeza betrayed him, he started becoming more ruthless again. He repeatedly told Gohan to kill Cell and even said he'd kill Dabura himself. Goku at least has a sense of morality in part 2. And he's not taking innocent lives in the process of "beating up the bad guy" (at least not intentionally).

Kid Goku's not quite THAT bad. He's willing to consider sparing Taopaipai, and only retaliates when Tao backstabs him (which still doesn't end up killing him). I'm not sure if anyone Kid Goku kills is exactly innocent in the strictest sense; they are either attacking him, attacking his friends, or they're a member of the Red Ribbon Army. I understand how Goku chasing down Black and finishing him off could give someone pause, but at least Goku is concerned about leaving an enemy to cause more mayhem, and Black did promise to come back and kill Goku. Of course, I wouldn't call any of this a solid moral backbone for Dragon Ball, but people shouldn't get their morality from violent shonen anime anyways.

Goku sacrificed himself twice for the sake of his son and friends. I don't think "Goku, the friend and father" ever disappeared. It may have been overshadowed by "Goku, the fighter", like you say, but that's only because Goku was out of the spotlight for such a great part of Z. Not really his fault, Toriyama just didn't put him into situations where he could showcase his care for his family and friends, besides the parts where they die lol.

A Chicken and the Egg situation, maybe? Is Goku so distant because the writing doesn't facilitate any tender moments, or are there less tender moments because Goku is so distant? But Goku is not real, so Goku/the storywriting are pretty much the same thing. It's up to Toriyama to facilitate the plot and Goku's character, so why configure things in a way that only allows Goku to show emotion at someone's death (something that's often quickly reversed with the Dragon Balls)?

You don't really need to, you can judge the manga as its own seperate thing.

Maybe, but I'm trying to judge the general direction the Goku character is going. When you get right down to it, there are so many different versions of Goku, it's hard to keep track of them all. There's Tori Goku, Toei Goku, FUNi Goku, Dragon Ball Goku, Z Goku, GT Goku, Saiyan Saga Goku, Cell Saga Goku, etc.. He fluctuates a lot and can be rather vaguely written, so much so that it's hard to even talk about Goku at all. People debating Goku can almost make up anything they want about his character, because he's not consistently written. So I want to talk about Adult Goku in the general sense, how the writing for him has progressed through the decades and different series.

Draconic says that the few emotional moments with Goku that we get are quite good, but isn't it funny we have to essentially claw at table scraps to be able to discuss the character's emotional life? I mean, part of this vagueness is the mysterious charm of the character, but it's becoming hard to hang any sort of analysis on Goku and make it stick.

The reason adult Goku rarely drives the plot due to his own ambitions isn't because he's uninteresting, though. It's because he doesn't seek trouble, the trouble comes to him. Also the scale is much smaller, Earth is over and done with, and space doesn't seem like something the cast is concerned with. In part 1, Goku had an entire world to explore. If you try to re-enact the search for the Dragon Balls now, it wouldn't work, not because Goku can't drive the story alone, but because they'd be gathered in an instant.

Isn't the idea that Goku doesn't seek trouble a writing issue in of itself? I'm talking about the simple nuts and bolts of story and character structure. A hero in a story isn't necessarily interesting because of their personality; they're interesting because of what they chose to do. It's why I complain about Gohan lacking drive and charisma (which eventually mad him irrelevant when he was supposed to be the new hero), and it's probably why so many fans cling to Vegeta for the run of Dragon Ball Z, since he initiates things and has a character arc. It's true Goku's story in Dragon Ball was never going to be a straight retelling of the Hero's Journey, but I think he could show at least show Red Ribbon Saga levels of involvement in his own world.

Maybe I'm wrong, and these kinds of character is more feasible than I give them credit for. After all, people like the Harry Potter series, and the protagonist of that needs Hermione to do a lot of the legwork for him. It's just something I think about when writing and talking about stories.

(the stuff about the lack of adventure is basically the "power creep" problem, and it's making it difficult not only to have an adventure plot, but to even have a fighting plot! Other than monetary motivations, something like Dragon Ball Super probably shouldn't even exist at all, since Goku doesn't have anything left to do that we haven't seen in the other Dragon Ball sagas)

Anyways, here's another item for the Unpopular DB opinions thread:

I am really nervous about the upcoming Dr. Slump crossover in Dragon Ball Super

Anyone who sees my fanworks can tell I am a big fan of Goku and Arale interacting. The Dr. Slump crossover in Dragon Ball is one of my favorite parts of the manga. However, these things can be screwed up if done poorly. The "Dream Fight" in Tenkai'chi has Goku refusing to fight girls like he's Ranma Saotome, which is out-of character for every version of Goku there is. It's not fun to watch Goku's reluctance to fight someone's who's probably the strongest character at that point, and the main character of her own series. Thankfully, in Origins 2, Goku is the one who initiates the fight, looking to have a sparring match. It's a blast seeing (and playing!) these characters having fun, and you get the impression that they meet up every now and again to kick each other's ass.

With this Super crossover, though, I don't know if I'm going to get a Tenkai'chi 3, or an Origins 2. It especially worries me because, like I stated, I never know what to expect with Super!Goku. I'll obviously survive no matter what happens, but I'd really prefer they not mess this up.

(and I'm wondering why, in the preview, Senbei looks exactly the same. Arale may not age, but Senbei's gotta be in his fifties by now!)

[The Patrolman]

I don't care for Nozawa performance as Kid Gohan. It never went anywhere with besides one moment where he turned SSJ2 but I don't think that since 11 means he is a pre teen (right?). The most I got from her performance was the amount of times she otosan ( I apologize if I said it incorrectly)

[Bansho64]

I don't care for Nozawa performance as Kid Gohan. It never went anywhere with besides one moment where he turned SSJ2 but I don't think that since 11 means he is a pre teen (right?). The most I got from her performance was the amount of times she otosan ( I apologize if I said it incorrectly)

Huh? Besides that first sentence, I could barely comprehend anything in that paragraph. Could you maybe re-word it?

[DBZ Macky]

I don't care for Nozawa performance as Kid Gohan. It never went anywhere with besides one moment where he turned SSJ2 but I don't think that since 11 means he is a pre teen (right?). The most I got from her performance was the amount of times she otosan ( I apologize if I said it incorrectly)

Wasn't Gohan 9 when he turned SSJ2?
I like her performance as Gohan; it's essentially a more civilized version of Kid Goku.

Unpopular Opinion:
I wish some company out there just makes a modern Dragon Ball RPG instead of the same fighting games again and again.
Attack Of The Saiyans sequel pls.