I actually tend to stay far away from these sorts of discussions. I'm certainly not a person who starts them, of all things. But watching Episode of Bardock again got me thinking about these characters' powers in relation to the rest of DragonBall.
If we accept the 50x multiplier for Super Saiyan, doesn't that make Bardock...uh, the weakest Super Saiyan ever? Or something? I mean, shit. I dunno. I realize that these things can't always be reduced to numbers, but at the same time I'm not finding a clear and sensible path from Bardock's battle power of 10,000 to Super Saiyan as we understand it to be.
By that token, Chilled couldn't have been all that much either. Descendants like Freeza and his family must have truly been freaks.
~Da Lemmy
Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
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Li'l Lemmy
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Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
The NUMBER ONE Goten fan, and a fucking epic one at that.Goten of Japan wrote:Don't go 9... Go 10! (Go-ten. Goten. Get it? DOOD.)
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TheDevilsCorpse
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Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
Yes. Bardock should be the weakest Super Saiyan we've seen (except maybe the Juniors in GT?)...unless his last near death power boost was beyond ABSURD, even in comparison to the others from the series.
He's around 10,000 at the end of his special. He gets his ass kicked by Dodoria and Freeza, ending up in the past at the hands of the latter. After arriving, Ipana heals his wounds, meaning he should have gotten a boost before fighting Chilled. If you use the maximum increase we see in the series, Goku's boost on Namek before fighting Freeza, he could get to be around x33 stronger. That would put him at a maximum of around 330,000 in base and 16,500,000 as a Super Saiyan.
Likewise, Chilled should be somewhere between those two numbers, as he was stronger than Bardock's base but weaker than the transformed Saiyan.
He's around 10,000 at the end of his special. He gets his ass kicked by Dodoria and Freeza, ending up in the past at the hands of the latter. After arriving, Ipana heals his wounds, meaning he should have gotten a boost before fighting Chilled. If you use the maximum increase we see in the series, Goku's boost on Namek before fighting Freeza, he could get to be around x33 stronger. That would put him at a maximum of around 330,000 in base and 16,500,000 as a Super Saiyan.
Likewise, Chilled should be somewhere between those two numbers, as he was stronger than Bardock's base but weaker than the transformed Saiyan.
Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
Shouldn't Bardock have said something about his strength vastly increasing like Vegeta or Goku always realized? Of course this is not Toriyama writting so it may not be the case...
In the manga, Gohan from the future is seen training Trunks in his regular form while Trunks was a Super Saiyan. So Bardock may not be the weakest even if he was at 10,000.Li'l Lemmy wrote:If we accept the 50x multiplier for Super Saiyan, doesn't that make Bardock...uh, the weakest Super Saiyan ever? Or something?y
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Blackstripe
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Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
330,000 would be fair. He did catch Chilled off guard with his first punch, and it scuffed his face and hurt enough to anger him. I would put Chilled at around 500,000 to Bardock's 330,000.
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TheDevilsCorpse
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Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
I think Bardock had other, more important things to worry about instead. It wasn't until the transformation was causing changes to more than just his power that the subject was worth bringing up.Fox666 wrote:Shouldn't Bardock have said something about his strength vastly increasing like Vegeta or Goku always realized? Of course this is not Toriyama writting so it may not be the case...
In the manga, Gohan from the future is seen training Trunks in his regular form while Trunks was a Super Saiyan. So Bardock may not be the weakest even if he was at 10,000.
As for the Trunks Special Chapter, yeah he could be, but we aren't sure of the real context behind that scene. It's not just an issue of his level of power, but also his current condition. Gohan makes the comment that Trunks would soon surpass him, but I don't see him getting x50 stronger to bring his own base to Gohan's level within a "soon" timeframe. So personally, I don't think he was that weak, just too exhausted from other training for Gohan to need anything more than his base at the time.
Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
Goku and Vegeta Jr. are easily the weakest. Heck, Goku Jr. enraged and whaling on that pig monster didn't even kill the monster right away. Took a few blows.
I think Bardock's zenkai put him around 50,000. I think that's fair.
I think Bardock's zenkai put him around 50,000. I think that's fair.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
I say that Bardock (who was at 10,000) received a who-knows-how-big Zenkai after being healed. Since I believe in power requirement for SSJ, that should've been quite a big Zenkai. Can't be any more exact.
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TheDevilsCorpse
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Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
Even though you're joking, I honestly don't think Onio would be weaker than Bardock thanks to my interpretation of NMZ. Suppaman is a gag. Not meant to be taken seriously and you know it. =P
Re: Strength of Chilled, SSj Bardock?
It depends on how powerful one thinks Chilled is. I for one think he's around 100,000...
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.