Battle of Gods canon?

[OWmyDragonBallz]

So many people claim that BoG is canon and that it's a "fact" based off of this quote "
Official history, neither a side story nor a spin off.
Does that truly mean it's "canon"? Doesn't canon mean works that are accepted as authentic?

[VegettoEX]

Insert my schpiel about what "canon" means to Dragon Ball here.

It's all in what you make of it. What's your line for canonicity? Is it so strict that it has to have come from the pen of Akira Toriyama during the manga's original publication? Or is it loose enough that if a marketing manager writes that it's not a side-story in a press release, is that enough for you?

No-one can tell you that you're right or you're wrong. You can only make your own decisions and either agree or disagree with other folks' viewpoints.

[The Monkey King]

I see no reason Battle of Gods shouldn't be accepted as canon by most people:

Toei animation call BoG a 'Toriyama work':

'The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation's latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involved from the script stage for the first time.
A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans."

Toriyama saying he wrote it as though he was continuing the manga:

I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga'] serialization had continued. What's more, the God of Destruction Birus, who I drew the design for myself (something I don't usually do), is a terrifying opponent so overwhelmingly strong that he surpasses the dimension of the previous enemies. But it's my trademark to not let things get too dark. At the very least, I'm satisfied that it's been finished up as a very entertaining piece of work.

Toriyama inputting BoG into Dragon Ball's canon history:

Q: Why is Kai's planet so small?

A: The fact is, it was destroyed by the God of Destruction!!
It used to be so big that its diameter was about 100 times that of Kai's current planet. Apart from the size it was completely the same as it is now, with nothing but grassy fields and roads. Kai-sama enjoyed his hobby, driving, but then one day Birusu, the God of Destruction, stopped by and they played a video game together (it was a car racing one). Birusu lost, and so the planet was destroyed by the peeved God of Destruction. Kai then took a large leftover fragment, whittled it down to a sphere, and built a road on it so that he could have fun driving there. This became Kais current planet.

Toriyama saying he wrote the script himself:

Q: I heard that this is the first time you've been deeply involved with the script of a movie; please tell us the reason.

A: The catalyst was that, first of all, when the script originally came to me, there was a lot of the sort of dialogue that only the creator would know, so I thought, 'that bothers me', and then this and that also started to get on my mind, and so rather than telling them to revise each individual thing, I thought it might be faster if I just wrote the script myself.

[VegettoEX]

I see no reason Battle of Gods shouldn't be accepted as canon:

Unless, of course, you're the kind of person that doesn't accept anything as canonical unless it was part of the original publication with every single line drawn from the original author himself.

And that's a completely valid hard line to take.

[The Monkey King]

I see no reason Battle of Gods shouldn't be accepted as canon:

Unless, of course, you're the kind of person that doesn't accept anything as canonical unless it was part of the original publication with every single line drawn from the original author himself.

And that's a completely valid hard line to take.

That is true I suppose

[JulieYBM]

Battle of Gods happens where Battle of Gods happened. So far that just seems to be Battle of Gods.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I see no reason Battle of Gods shouldn't be accepted as canon by most people:

Toei animation call BoG a 'Toriyama work':

'The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation's latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involved from the script stage for the first time.
A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans."

Toriyama saying he wrote it as though he was continuing the manga:

I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga'] serialization had continued. What's more, the God of Destruction Birus, who I drew the design for myself (something I don't usually do), is a terrifying opponent so overwhelmingly strong that he surpasses the dimension of the previous enemies. But it's my trademark to not let things get too dark. At the very least, I'm satisfied that it's been finished up as a very entertaining piece of work.

Toriyama inputting BoG into Dragon Ball's canon history:

Q: Why is Kai's planet so small?

A: The fact is, it was destroyed by the God of Destruction!!
It used to be so big that its diameter was about 100 times that of Kai's current planet. Apart from the size it was completely the same as it is now, with nothing but grassy fields and roads. Kai-sama enjoyed his hobby, driving, but then one day Birusu, the God of Destruction, stopped by and they played a video game together (it was a car racing one). Birusu lost, and so the planet was destroyed by the peeved God of Destruction. Kai then took a large leftover fragment, whittled it down to a sphere, and built a road on it so that he could have fun driving there. This became Kais current planet.

Toriyama saying he wrote the script himself:

Q: I heard that this is the first time you've been deeply involved with the script of a movie; please tell us the reason.

A: The catalyst was that, first of all, when the script originally came to me, there was a lot of the sort of dialogue that only the creator would know, so I thought, 'that bothers me', and then this and that also started to get on my mind, and so rather than telling them to revise each individual thing, I thought it might be faster if I just wrote the script myself.

There are just things from it that I can't take seriously. Like Freeza > Base Goku (Boo saga and onward) which contradicts the manga, as well as Bulma being an inaccurate age. ETC.

[hleV]

(Assuming everyone agrees that canon translates to true to the manga.)

I guess being a shitty movie doesn't make it non-canon?
Something being a spin-off or a side story (the chapter about Future Trunks is sort of a side story) doesn't mean it's non-canon, so I find it weird to treat BOG as somehow more canon than a spin-off/side story.
Toriyama imagining what events could follow if he was still drawing the manga doesn't make BOG the event that follows the manga. I'll even add that it's possible that BOG is a what-if scenario had Toriyama not decided to go with Oob (and make Goku say that he didn't meet a formidable foe for 10 years).
Anyway, it's an anime story. Toriyama wrote it for Toei. I'm sure it's true to the anime, but I don't see enough evidence to completely put it in the manga's history. Hell, Toriyama's very story that he wrote may be what's true to the manga, but not exactly what we see in the movie itself (even if it follows Toriyama's script closely). How many fingers does Piccolo have? What's the color of his belt? Etc.

[TheGmGoken]

Depends on your definition of canon.

[Hellspawn28]

AT help in the making of the story of the film. So I do view it as canon to the manga.

[dbzfan7]

There are just things from it that I can't take seriously. Like Freeza > Base Goku (Boo saga and onward) which contradicts the manga, as well as Bulma being an inaccurate age. ETC.

I don't see how that contradicts the manga, better yet it stops power levels charts from getting ridiculously high.

I don't understand how Watanabe can be the script writer if he didn't even write the script. Even if the original script was completely changed it's still Watanabe's. The movie also has contradictions such as Mr. Satan not knowing who Dende is. I'm not sure I would call it canon as it's possible ending scenario would make the manga EOZ not make sense.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

There are just things from it that I can't take seriously. Like Freeza > Base Goku (Boo saga and onward) which contradicts the manga, as well as Bulma being an inaccurate age. ETC.

I don't see how that contradicts the manga, better yet it stops power levels charts from getting ridiculously high.

I don't understand how Watanabe can be the script writer if he didn't even write the script. Even if the original script was completely changed it's still Watanabe's. The movie also has contradictions such as Mr. Satan not knowing who Dende is. I'm not sure I would call it canon as it's possible ending scenario would make the manga EOZ not make sense.

Well let's see. Base Goten and Base Trunks holding their own against 18 (who's far stronger than Freeza) and Trunks telling Goten to hold back more. Base Goku holding his own against Oob who is dimensions above Freeza. Now are you going to tell me that the power Oob was displaying was weaker than Freeza? No. Freeza's power is a complete joke now that nobody would be impressed with it.

[mAcChaos]

Eh, I don't consider it canon. DB/Z is over. But it is a nice new DBZ feature to enjoy.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Well let's see. Base Goten and Base Trunks holding their own against 18 (who's far stronger than Freeza) and Trunks telling Goten to hold back more.

18 didn't know she was fighting the boys, so she was holding back to fight someone on a more human level. The boys can't sense her ki, so they have no idea she's holding back.

Base Goku holding his own against Oob who is dimensions above Freeza. Now are you going to tell me that the power Oob was displaying was weaker than Freeza? No.

That's irrelevant. It happened years after Battle of Gods.

[dbzfan7]

Well let's see. Base Goten and Base Trunks holding their own against 18 (who's far stronger than Freeza) and Trunks telling Goten to hold back more.

18 isn't going all out on them as she doesn't know who they are. Doubtful she will go 100% and risk killing her competitors. One hard kick crippled SSJ Vegeta, she can't risk killing someone she would think is weaker.

Base Goku holding his own against Oob who is dimensions above Freeza. Now are you going to tell me that the power Oob was displaying was weaker than Freeza? No. Freeza's power is a complete joke now that nobody would be impressed with it.

Oob didn't use all of Kid Boo's power til the very end.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, Toriyama wrote it, but Kishimoto (the creator of Naruto) wrote the newest Naruto movie as well, but it doesn't fit to the main continuity, so...

Anyway, it's an anime story. Toriyama wrote it for Toei. I'm sure it's true to the anime, but I don't see enough evidence to completely put it in the manga's history.

Well, we don't see Gregory (an anime character), so I guess it follows the manga, like DBO does. Then again, it mentions Tarble, who appears in the JSAT, which has Gregory in it... but Gregory was only a background character, so I guess we can ignore him?

[dbzfan7]

Well, Toriyama wrote it, but Kishimoto (the creator of Naruto) wrote the newest Naruto movie as well, but it doesn't fit to the main continuity, so...

If Toriyama wrote the cript then what the hell did Watanabe do?

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Well let's see. Base Goten and Base Trunks holding their own against 18 (who's far stronger than Freeza) and Trunks telling Goten to hold back more.

18 didn't know she was fighting the boys, so she was holding back to fight someone on a more human level. The boys can't sense her ki, so they have no idea she's holding back.

Base Goku holding his own against Oob who is dimensions above Freeza. Now are you going to tell me that the power Oob was displaying was weaker than Freeza? No.

That's irrelevant. It happened years after Battle of Gods.

5 years to be exact and the Boo saga is like 10 years after Freeza. By that time Goku should definitely be stronger than Freeza in Base seeing as how he trains in his SSJ stages which therefore makes his base grow much stronger by default. Goku trained in base against Piccolo over the 3 years to the Artificial humans. It's not irrelevant in the slightest. A lot of you claim that Goku has reached his maximum, that he can't get any stronger using Toriyama's quote to interpret it that way. Oob was not using full force that's true, but he definitely wasn't displaying a power weaker than Freeza. That wouldn't make any sense.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Well let's see. Base Goten and Base Trunks holding their own against 18 (who's far stronger than Freeza) and Trunks telling Goten to hold back more.

18 isn't going all out on them as she doesn't know who they are. Doubtful she will go 100% and risk killing her competitors. One hard kick crippled SSJ Vegeta, she can't risk killing someone she would think is weaker.

Base Goku holding his own against Oob who is dimensions above Freeza. Now are you going to tell me that the power Oob was displaying was weaker than Freeza? No. Freeza's power is a complete joke now that nobody would be impressed with it.

Oob didn't use all of Kid Boo's power til the very end.

So you basically believe that Oob was weaker than Freeza at that point because he wasn't using his full power? Sure he wasn't going all out, but to imply that he was holding back an amount that is weaker than Freeza is ridiculous.

[dbzfan7]

So you basically believe that Oob was weaker than Freeza at that point because he wasn't using his full power? Sure he wasn't going all out, but to imply that he was holding back an amount that is weaker than Freeza is ridiculous.

Oob is like Gohan, he doesn't know how to unleash his full power. He started showing more and more of the power he had as the fight went on. Goku said he may lose to Oob and that he is exactly as strong as he thought he would be. Goku thought he would be strong enough to possibly beat him. Problem is Oob can't control and use said power, just like Gohan.