Movie 12: Fusion Reborn

[Piccolo-San]

What up, ya'll? I'm a huge DBZ fan, or rather, I used to be. My interest in the series has faded a little bit over the years, but it will always have a special place in my heart. I will always remember it as being one of the greatest aspects of my childhood. Anyhow, after hearing about the upcoming release of Movie 12 here in North America, I got pretty excited about it. Movie 12 is probably my all-time favorite (well, actually I'd say it's a tie between this film and movies 6 and .

I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this project? I know it's pretty early, and not much is known at this point, but I'm so friggin' psyched about it! Who do you think will direct it? Who is doing the music? (Mark Menza did a pretty good job on movies 6, 8 and 9, but his work in movie 7 was lacking in quality - I thought I was listening to a porn). And more importantly, who is writing the script? I very much enjoyed the dub of movie 9, but I'm not sure who wrote it. I'd be happy if that guy came back to write this one. Or perhaps Chris Sabat, who did a pretty decent job with writing the script for movie 8.

[VegettoEX]

Who do you think will direct it?

Shigeyasu Yamauchi.

Who is doing the music?

Shunsuke Kikuchi.

And more importantly, who is writing the script?

Takao Koyama .

In all honesty, you'll probably find a very small minority of people here who all that excited about the dub to the point of wondering said questions. There's no doubt that there are some people here who are primarily dub fans, but I really don't think you're going to get the 00ber-psyched-for-the-dub response you seem to be expecting.

[Hao_Kaiser]

I was honestly going to try a sarcastic attempt at Tom Cruise-esque fake enthusiasm. It's not that I'm not looking forward to the dub release...it's just that I'll likely watch the Japanese version more than the dub.

In order to take Vegetto EX's words out of context, people who are dub-centric are to stupid to figure it out. I kid the people who are simular to me. And so ends a post that added nothing to the topic.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

...it's just that I'll likely watch the Japanese version more than the dub.

Seriously, ever since I first began to buy the DVD versions, the Japanese version is the only thing I look forward to. I mean when I didn't have a DVD player, all my movies were VHS and Dub-only and now that I go back and watch them it feels really weird not to have the option to see the original version...

[Piccolo-San]

I realize that many fans are still furious with the way Funimation "mistreated the series", and I agree with them to a certain extent. Having said that, I still maintain that they managed to produce some quality episodes. And, although I may take a ton of heat for this, I am a huge fan of Bruce Faulconer's music... A HUGE fan. I think his music during the Frieza saga in particular was quite memorable. As far as the dubbed films go, Mark Menza has been doing a decent job (with the exception of movie 7). I'd still much rather prefer Faulconer...

Movie 12 is a fantastic film just the way it is, and the music in particular is extremely good, especially during that last exchange between Goku and Vegeta before they part ways. Very touching.

However, I grew up listening to the voices of Christopher Sabat and the rest of the gang at FUNi. So if I have the option of listening to their voices rather than reading some dialogue at the bottom of the screen while the characters speak some language I cannot comprehend at all, I'll take the english voices any day. The only issues I have with the dubbed versions is that the quality of the dialogue tends to decrease quite a bit due to poor translations. And I'm worried that some of the emotional scenes between Goku and Vegeta in this film might be ruined as a result of that. It really depends on who will be writing the script. If Chris Sabat does it, it will be golden. No doubt.

The other problem I have with the dubbed films is that they tend to insert way too much heavy metal music. It's fine during the opening credits (such as the re-arranged Faulconer theme featured in the dub of the eighth film), but it gets extremely annoying when used for all the fight sequences. Techno music, on the other hand, goes perfectly with fighting. That's why Mortal Kombat was such a damn cool movie. And that's the sort of music Bruce Faulconer produced for DBZ. I loved it.

By the way, Vegetto, I love your site. I've browsed it many times before, and I commend you for your dedication. It's a fantastic DBZ resource.

[Chuquita]

I'm looking forward to seeing Movie 12 simply because its my favorite of the dbz movies.

I only hope they don't decide to insert the random vocal songs they did with the Movie 10 dub. I was shocked to hear them in there because I had thought Funi had long since stopped inserting those into their Movie dub battles.

[Duo]

I buy every one of the movies, so I am looking forward to this one quite eagerly.

However, I will listen to the Dub second, since every movie has one scene or set of lines that is so horribly butchured that I want to vomit up my ass, and back out in an endless loop of vomit and ass.

Examples!

Movie 7 has its "That means he's pure...even as a Super Saiyan" line from Kuririn.

Movie 8 has its "You're all complete and utter wastes of Saiyan Blood" and "I'm a true freak!" lines from Broly.

Movie 9 has its butchury of the SS2 Gohan scenes lines.

Movie 10 has it's "This is my fight!" line from Goku.

Movie 11 has it's "Why don't you just obey me!" line from #18.

I can't think of any for 4, 5, and 6...which means I will probably rewatch the dub, since I almost always opt otherwise, as you figured out by now.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I am a huge fan of Bruce Faulconer's music... A HUGE fan. I think his music during the Freeza saga in particular was quite memorable. As far as the dubbed films go, Mark Menza has been doing a decent job (with the exception of movie 7). I'd still much rather prefer Faulconer...

Eh, both Faulconer's score and the original lack diversity. Difference being, for the most part, important scenes in the original version had songs composed which made the scene (Gohan's SSJ2 being the best example that almost everyone knows). I have no problem with people liking Faulconer or Menza's work, and I don't proclaim the original score to be perfect I just prefer it.

Movie 12 is a fantastic film just the way it is, and the music in particular is extremely good, especially during that last exchange between Goku and Vegeta before they part ways. Very touching.

However, I grew up listening to the voices of Christopher Sabat and the rest of the gang at FUNi. So if I have the option of listening to their voices rather than reading some dialogue at the bottom of the screen while the characters speak some language I cannot comprehend at all, I'll take the english voices any day. The only issues I have with the dubbed versions is that the quality of the dialogue tends to decrease quite a bit due to poor translations. And I'm worried that some of the emotional scenes between Goku and Vegeta in this film might be ruined as a result of that. It really depends on who will be writing the script. If Chris Sabat does it, it will be golden. No doubt.

Eh, I kinda tuned out of the dub long ago, but my problem with the dub comes primarily from attempts to match a target demographic. Most kids here don't care about 'touching moments', they want violence and comedy...at least, from FUNi's perception. It's possible though that they'll partially salvage it, like they did with my namesake's death.

The other problem I have with the dubbed films is that they tend to insert way too much heavy metal music. It's fine during the opening credits (such as the re-arranged Faulconer theme featured in the dub of the eighth film), but it gets extremely annoying when used for all the fight sequences. Techno music, on the other hand, goes perfectly with fighting. That's why Mortal Kombat was such a damn cool movie. And that's the sort of music Bruce Faulconer produced for DBZ. I loved it.

And that's cool, like I said the original score wasn't perfect, it just seemed to match the mood Toriyama's work was trying to convey more often than the dub. And that's why I own the DragonBoxes and not FUNi's discs anymore.

Anyway, welcome to the board.

-Corey

[Li'l Lemmy]

I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this project? I know it's pretty early, and not much is known at this point, but I'm so friggin' psyched about it! Who do you think will direct it? Who is doing the music? (Mark Menza did a pretty good job on movies 6, 8 and 9, but his work in movie 7 was lacking in quality - I thought I was listening to a porn). And more importantly, who is writing the script? I very much enjoyed the dub of movie 9, but I'm not sure who wrote it. I'd be happy if that guy came back to write this one. Or perhaps Chris Sabat, who did a pretty decent job with writing the script for movie 8.

Part of a back-and-forth I had with Kyle Hebert (adult Gohan) some months ago reads as follows:

I'm sure we'll be recording the next Z game (Tenkaichi) soon, given its Xmas release date. I can't wait. I've also heard August as a release date for the next movie (Bio-Broly). Can't remember if Gohan was in it or not, but we have already finished recording all of the movies. All that's left is to put them on the shelves.

So whomever is to make arrangemets for the dub version, such as script, music and whatnot . . . it's all already been finished. My only problem is that they're going to make us wait a long, long time to finish collecting them all.

[Piccolo-San]

Part of a back-and-forth I had with Kyle Hebert (adult Gohan) some months ago reads as follows:

I'm sure we'll be recording the next Z game (Tenkaichi) soon, given its Xmas release date. I can't wait. I've also heard August as a release date for the next movie (Bio-Broly). Can't remember if Gohan was in it or not, but we have already finished recording all of the movies. All that's left is to put them on the shelves.

So whomever is to make arrangemets for the dub version, such as script, music and whatnot . . . it's all already been finished. My only problem is that they're going to make us wait a long, long time to finish collecting them all.

Thanks for the info. It would be great if they released it sometime shortly after Christmas. But my guess would be we won't see it until Spring. I'm not sure why they would want to do that though. I mean, it's not as if DBZ's popularity is growing - in fact I'd say it's shrinking. Why wouldn't they want to put everything out there as soon as possible to maximize sales?

[Piccolo-San]

I am a huge fan of Bruce Faulconer's music... A HUGE fan. I think his music during the Freeza saga in particular was quite memorable. As far as the dubbed films go, Mark Menza has been doing a decent job (with the exception of movie 7). I'd still much rather prefer Faulconer...

Eh, both Faulconer's score and the original lack diversity. Difference being, for the most part, important scenes in the original version had songs composed which made the scene (Gohan's SSJ2 being the best example that almost everyone knows). I have no problem with people liking Faulconer or Menza's work, and I don't proclaim the original score to be perfect I just prefer it.

Movie 12 is a fantastic film just the way it is, and the music in particular is extremely good, especially during that last exchange between Goku and Vegeta before they part ways. Very touching.

However, I grew up listening to the voices of Christopher Sabat and the rest of the gang at FUNi. So if I have the option of listening to their voices rather than reading some dialogue at the bottom of the screen while the characters speak some language I cannot comprehend at all, I'll take the english voices any day. The only issues I have with the dubbed versions is that the quality of the dialogue tends to decrease quite a bit due to poor translations. And I'm worried that some of the emotional scenes between Goku and Vegeta in this film might be ruined as a result of that. It really depends on who will be writing the script. If Chris Sabat does it, it will be golden. No doubt.

Eh, I kinda tuned out of the dub long ago, but my problem with the dub comes primarily from attempts to match a target demographic. Most kids here don't care about 'touching moments', they want violence and comedy...at least, from FUNi's perception. It's possible though that they'll partially salvage it, like they did with my namesake's death.

The other problem I have with the dubbed films is that they tend to insert way too much heavy metal music. It's fine during the opening credits (such as the re-arranged Faulconer theme featured in the dub of the eighth film), but it gets extremely annoying when used for all the fight sequences. Techno music, on the other hand, goes perfectly with fighting. That's why Mortal Kombat was such a damn cool movie. And that's the sort of music Bruce Faulconer produced for DBZ. I loved it.

And that's cool, like I said the original score wasn't perfect, it just seemed to match the mood Toriyama's work was trying to convey more often than the dub. And that's why I own the DragonBoxes and not FUNi's discs anymore.

Anyway, welcome to the board.

-Corey

Thanks for the welcome. And I appreciate your thoughts. It's always a good thing when fans can agree to disargee, rather than engage in retarded arguments over how great or poor the dub is. In my opinion, the dub and sub each have their good points, as well as their bad points. It just comes down to personal preference. And in the end, it doesn't really matter. We all love DBZ for the same reason: It kicks ass (in any language).

[Li'l Lemmy]

Thanks for the info. It would be great if they released it sometime shortly after Christmas. But my guess would be we won't see it until Spring.

A trailer (picture only) included with the FUNimation Bio-Broly release advertises Fusion Reborn as being released sometime in early 2006. The vagueness of "early" gives them some room with which to set a final release date . . . assuming one hasn't already been made . . . but I would guess we'd see it no sooner than February and no later than April. My guess is March, but we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm not sure why they would want to do that though. I mean, it's not as if DBZ's popularity is growing - in fact I'd say it's shrinking. Why wouldn't they want to put everything out there as soon as possible to maximize sales?

FUNimation isn't necessarily logical at all times when it comes to DBZ releases; after all, the last Cell Games DVD was released in February 2005, while the Majin Buu sagas in their entirety were available quite some time earlier. However, I would hypothesize that the movies are being released this way to maximize the sales of each individual film . . . of which there are very few left . . . and cash in on what's left of DBZ's popularity before there's no more DBZ to be had.

The second Broly movie, for example, was apparently FUNimation's best-selling DVD ever, and continued to have a strong sell even months after the release. Then the same record-breaking sales were matched by Bio-Broly. Both records will likely crumble before what I'm sure is going to be a highly successful release of Movie 12, which has always been a much-anticipated fan favorite . . . but since Bio-Broly is still popular, there's really no need to release 12 too soon and miss out on the money 11 can still pull in.

[Piccolo-San]

A trailer (picture only) included with the FUNimation Bio-Broly release advertises Fusion Reborn as being released sometime in early 2006. The vagueness of "early" gives them some room with which to set a final release date . . . assuming one hasn't already been made . . . but I would guess we'd see it no sooner than February and no later than April. My guess is March, but we'll just have to wait and see.


FUNimation isn't necessarily logical at all times when it comes to DBZ releases; after all, the last Cell Games DVD was released in February 2005, while the Majin Buu sagas in their entirety were available quite some time earlier. However, I would hypothesize that the movies are being released this way to maximize the sales of each individual film . . . of which there are very few left . . . and cash in on what's left of DBZ's popularity before there's no more DBZ to be had.

The second Broly movie, for example, was apparently FUNimation's best-selling DVD ever, and continued to have a strong sell even months after the release. Then the same record-breaking sales were matched by Bio-Broly. Both records will likely crumble before what I'm sure is going to be a highly successful release of Movie 12, which has always been a much-anticipated fan favorite . . . but since Bio-Broly is still popular, there's really no need to release 12 too soon and miss out on the money 11 can still pull in.

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[Li'l Lemmy]

For the record, Piccolo-San, you certainly aren't the only fan who often associates DBZ with the likes of Sean Schemmel and Christopher Sabat. It's how I got into the series in the first place; I taped the episodes off of Toonami faithfully for years in ignorant bliss before I even knew it was a dub . . . and though I've really grown to love the original senyu and the Japanese musical score, I'll still switch back and forth between the languages fairly often when I'm watching a DVD, as I've learned to enjoy the strengths of both versions. (I am partial to Faulconer's "SSJ3 Goku" theme.)

Our host EX is pretty much correct . . . this isn't the sort of place where the enthusiasm for Movie 12 or any DBZ release is going to be dub-dominant. It's just not that kind of place. But do I share your anticipation for seeing Fusion Reborn . . . both the apparent majesty of the original version that's made it such a fan-favorite for all these years before the dub even existed, and the new English swing-on-things with the voices I remember best, with a lot of memories to their credit; in a way it reminds me of days gone by when I used to wait anxiously for Monday to roll around so I could see what happened on the next episode of DBZ.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Huh. I go on and on posting replies to this Piccolo-San person who has already been banned earlier today, and only just now look to see "Banned" beneath his name.

Well, don't I feel stupid as hell! Guess that's the end of this particular thread, eh?


(Li'l Lemmy the sheepish.)

[VegettoEX]

Guess that's the end of this particular thread, eh?

No, feel free to continue discussing .

[Li'l Lemmy]

No, feel free to continue discussing .

If there's any discussion left to be had, then I'll take it. Back to business!

At any rate, I suppose there's really no way to reconcile some of the strange choices for names and dialogue put in the dub with the script of the original version . . . though I really do think that they've gotten much better with it as time goes on, and that the original ideas of the script remain more-or-less intact. We don't really hear about any "brilliant scientists" anymore, for instance . . .

Nonetheless, some nitpicking should be allowed here and there. I'm curious to see how FUNimation is going to handle the scene where Paikuhan ends up cursing to release the barrier, for example.


(Li'l Lemmy, getting back on track!)

[Xyex]

At any rate, I suppose there's really no way to reconcile some of the strange choices for names and dialogue put in the dub with the script of the original version . . . though I really do think that they've gotten much better with it as time goes on, and that the original ideas of the script remain more-or-less intact. We don't really hear about any "brilliant scientists" anymore, for instance . . .

Not to take things too far off-topic, but I've been thinking. It seems to me, when DBZ first got dubbed, they were only interested in making it as 'marketable as possible' in the intrest of getting the thing to catch on here so that they wouldn't waste their money on it. So they really didn't need to 'try' with it, to make it accurate to the original, just try to make it a viable product, which they obviously did.

Once it did catch on they realized that making it closer to the original would produce even better sales, drawing not just those who got hooked thanks to the dub but those who were hooked prior to the dub, by the Fansubs. It took them a while to get the hang of it but I think they did a rather good job near the end. You really don't see a company caring that often, do such a thing, and to even go back and re-do what it already did. Some say it's just for the sales but I can't see that being the case, there's no way the profit from the redub is enough to actually justify doing it.

[Duo]

It is true that they took more to caring about it moreso than before, especially with the performance in the Buu Saga. That was probably the best portion of all the dub.

"Course, I have to wonder what they were thinking, Music wise, with GT.

Despite all their efforts, which have come very far, they still could have done better...but I guess the original music, really talented voice actors, and a near-straight translation are too much to ask for.

[Xyex]

It is true that they took more to caring about it moreso than before, especially with the performance in the Buu Saga. That was probably the best portion of all the dub.

"Course, I have to wonder what they were thinking, Music wise, with GT.

Despite all their efforts, which have come very far, they still could have done better...but I guess the original music, really talented voice actors, and a near-straight translation are too much to ask for.

Really talented Voice Actors = Big Bucks = No Profit = Never gonna happen. The ditching of the original music was profit based. Putting in their own music meant 1) not needing to pay for the original every time it aired on TV + for using it on the DVDs and 2) Getting the money for having their own music on the discs thus making extra money instead of loosing it. Perhaps not the best choice for the fandom but a sound econmical/bottom-line decision. And a near-straight translation isn't that big a deal. So long as the plot is the same there's no harm done.

Finally for the music... I haven't a clue. I don't know if FUNi was directly responsible for that or if it was Menza's own idea. If it was Menza, then it was probably what he thought would go best. If it was FUNi then they were probably trying to improve GT so they could make a better profit on something that they knew would only be selling thanks to the Dragonball name.