Mr. Popo and Jynx a reference to racism?

[DBGod]

There have been many theories as to why Mr. Popo and even Jynx (Pokemon) resemble obvious traits in a reference towards racism. Both characters contain exaggerated eyes and lips and contain a pure black skin colour which is also exaggerated. Jynx even wears gloves which is another blatant reference. The name Jynx even has a native meaning of "attracting bad luck." Mr. Popo is also a servant for Kami, a reference to slavery. The list can literally go on and on...

Anyway, what do you guys think of this topic, deliberate, or a complete coincidence?

[Fennekin]

This entire thread is a bad idea and will only create flaming and anger.

[DBGod]

This is a perfectly reasonable topic. People who take it the wrong way are only exposing and making a fool of themselves, and can thus get strikes/bans. This site is for intelligent conversations about Dragonball, and I couldn't see why this can't be addressed in such a manner.

[Ringworm128]

http://youtu.be/p8X3l_Tt8VE
http://youtu.be/FQzsZpwjDHg?t=7m41s
These are good videos on the subject of Jynx.

[Big Momma]

They're extreme caricatures that are a (dated) product of a nationalistic country who has a small population of black people (Especially back when Dragon Ball was being made).

IMO, they're characters no one should waste getting upset over. As I doubt there was seriously any "truly" racist intent behind their designs.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I don't believe it's a reference to racism so much as it is a direct reference to just blackface itself.

Of course, in the U.S., we are taught that there is no difference between blackface and racism, and that's because of how deeply rooted in U.S. history blackface is...and more specifically, how deeply rooted in history it is as a means to demean black people by portraying them in an offensive, bafoonish, clown-like manner. Japan does not have that history.

On the other hand, Japan is most definitely a country that values cultural homogeneity. It's nothing specifically against black people, but rather, against foreigners, period. So it could be argued that while they did not intend to offend black people in their animation, they didn't particularly care if they did offend them either. A lack of understanding of blackface's historical context in U.S. history probably played a large part in it as well.

[DBZAOTA482]

I think Mr. Popo and Jynx are innocent in their designs. The Japanese have a history of being racially insensitive.

[dbboxkaifan]

It only became a racial issue when the US brought it up.

Games: They make you kill people.
Anime: That's obviously racist.
Films/TV: Sex is bad, violence is good.
Music: It's cool to disrespect women as if they were objects.

[Off-topic rant deleted at moderator's discretion]

[DBGod]

Yeah, I personally think its just a dated way to refer to an ethnic group. I almost forgot to mention that Commander Black is also in this category.

[KaiserNeko]

Look, it's actually very possible, if not LIKELY, that Mr. Popo's design is based off of old racist artwork. Usually associated with the term Sambo.

WARNING: Use of the N-word below

Spoiler:

These basically spell it out for you immediately that, yes: Mr. Popo is first and foremost designed after old, racist interpretations of black people.

However, this doesn't necessarily mean there was any ill-will meant in his design, though I'd be remiss to say it's not inherently ignorant. Japanese culture, as stated before, has had a long history of remaining highly homogenous. For better or worse, they used to only borrow from other cultures very rarely and usually only employed certain elements when they do. As time has progressed, they've opened up a bit more and there are definitely steps being made, culturally, to be more well informed of other cultures, but by and large you're going to find a remarkable amount of imagery from back in the day that's going to make just about anyone from outside the country double-take.

Also, as far as Jynx goes, her design is actually based off of a JAPANESE trend called Ganguro Girls.

WARNING: ... Nothing really all that offensive here actually, that you haven't already seen.

Spoiler:

It's this trend of tanning one's skin (naturally or with sprays) and bleaching the hair. I... think it looks incredibly stupid, myself, and apparently ganguro girls have a tendency to be total airheads. But whatever!

I'll admit, though, that her design is similar enough to the Sambo design that it's understandable that it makes a lot of westerners uncomfortable. Big, colorful lips on a pure black face with wide, vacant black and white eyes? Yeah, even with the pinkness of the lips and blonde hair, that's still uncomfortably close. Changing her skin color to purple made it... a bit better, but there's still all of that surreal similarity there and bad taste of the initial design lingering from before. True that these designs probably never occurred to children of their respective generations as racial stereotypes, but that doesn't necessarily excuse them either.

Either way, as an educated viewer, they don't bother me much at all.

[Blade]

Popo is a genie, and I think the similarities in his appearance to a golliwog are probably coincidental.

Toriyama's depiction of black-skinned people in Dragonball, however, is to me a little closer to the knuckle. His depiction of faces without much detail and large, thick lips particularly are enforcing of negative racial stereotypes to Western eyes. Having said that, towards the Manga and through his depiction of Uub I think he changed his style for the better.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yeah, I personally think its just a dated way to refer to an ethnic group. I almost forgot to mention that Commander Black is also in this category.

Staff Officer Black in Japanese is... Black Sanbo (makes pun with Sambo).

[AgitoZ]

Also, as far as Jynx goes, her design is actually based off of a JAPANESE trend called Ganguro Girls.

Actually it has never been confirmed that's what its design is actually based on. And given the fact that the Ganguro trend started later then when Jynx would have been designed, it's far more likely that she's actually based on either Yuki-onna or Yama Uba (or likely borrowing traits from both). Not to mention sub sets of ganguro are based on Yama Uba.

But I get what you're saying, no ill intention was meant from Jynx's design. Hell, Ludicolo is a comparatively more offensive design.

Likewise, Toriyama also likely didn't mean any harm when designing Popo. It has more to do with ignorance than full on racism.

[TheGmGoken]

Films/TV: Sex is bad, violence is good.
Music: It's cool to disrespect women as if they were objects.

Reverse the Film part. Violence is bad but sex is good. For some reason EVERYTHING got sex in it now. Music thing I agree. Even women in music treat themselves like object.

On subject. I find them to be a black face, stereotyped, or maybe a RACIST JOKE. We all(Well..I'm sure most of us) made jokes about other races before. So I see no harm in this at all. It could be based on the (Warning N word)"Nigger" thing Neko posted up. Which isn't offensive to me at all(Black and Korean). I know in growing up in South Korea that there was some people who didn't like me because I was mixed. That's more racism than a simple anime-manga-video game character. So yes maybe it's a reference to racism. Not in a bad way. Just a racist joke or a stereotyped.

[DBGod]

I always did believe they were blatant references, but with no negative intentions. It must have still been culturally accepted at that time to depict an ethnic group as such.

[TheBlackPaladin]

This is a Wikipedia article, so take it with a grain of salt, but here's the "Japan" section of the Wikipedia article on blackface.

[KaiserNeko]

Also, as far as Jynx goes, her design is actually based off of a JAPANESE trend called Ganguro Girls.

Actually it has never been confirmed that's what its design is actually based on. And given the fact that the Ganguro trend started later then when Jynx would have been designed, it's far more likely that she's actually based on either Yuki-onna or Yama Uba (or likely borrowing traits from both). Not to mention sub sets of ganguro are based on Yama Uba.

But I get what you're saying, no ill intention was meant from Jynx's design. Hell, Ludicolo is a comparatively more offensive design.

Likewise, Toriyama also likely didn't mean any harm when designing Popo. It has more to do with ignorance than full on racism.

Ah, alrighty. Thanks for the correction there; I thought it was basically settled upon that Ganguro was the main reference for the character. That makes a bit more sense though.

[Fionordequester]

Personally, I wouldn't mind Mr. Popo so much, if it weren't for the fact that he also speaks like a cave man in the Japanese version. THAT'S what pushes it over the line, though fortunately, I'm listening to English Popo most of the time, so I don't usually notice.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Personally, I wouldn't mind Mr. Popo so much, if it weren't for the fact that he also speaks like a cave man in the Japanese version. THAT'S what pushes it over the line, though fortunately, I'm listening to English Popo most of the time, so I don't usually notice.

Yeah, it does make 'ya wonder what sort of different reaction Popo might have gotten out of U.S. audiences had his dialogue been more faithfully adapted in the dub.

Speaking of U.S. reactions, I do find it interesting that I've heard from a number of fans of DBZ/Kai who are black who said that they were actually more offended by the CW turning him blue than they were of his unaltered appearance.

[AgitoZ]

Speaking of U.S. reactions, I do find it interesting that I've heard from a number of fans of DBZ/Kai who are black who said that they were actually more offended by the CW turning him blue than they were of his unaltered appearance.

I have to assume that's just due to it being changed in the first place. Kinda like how they stopped airing Speedy Gonzalez cartoons and fans got up in arms about.

It's far worse trying to hide the fact that the character's looks like a black sambo. Not to mention the edit just looks awful.