SSJG interference with the multipliers and Kaioken

[Doctor.]

As we saw in Battle of Gods, right after the time limit of SSJG ended, Goku fought against Beerus and managed to hold his own against him for a while... in base. And then transforms into SSJ, where Beerus later says he absorbed that world (talking about SSJG obviously) into his body and turned it into his own power.

So, what this means basically, is that the SSJ multiplier changed. It had too, in order for base Goku to stand a chance. However, if it's 2x, 5x, 10x now is irrelevant, that's not the point. The point is Kaioken. As we all know, it can go up to at least x20. If the SSJ multiplier decreased, it begs the question: why doesn't Goku now use Kaioken again then? One excuse is that Toriyama simply forgot. Another excuse could be that his body can't handle such an absurd amount of Ki, although I don't think that sticks, because it certainly wouldn't stop Goku from trying.

I think that Kaioken is incompatible with Godly Ki and Super Saiyan God. Mainly because Kaio-sama never mastered it, while mortal Goku did. Now, obviously Toriyama never thought this far ahead, but it fits nicely imo.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The multiplier changed? During Battle of Gods at least, since Toriyama implied that Goku now intends to train just his Super Saiyan form to get the most benefits out of training in a Q&A, the multiplier just doesn't function IMO.

Goku drops out of God mode and continues fighting without realizing the form isn't active and he transforms into a Super Saiyan without realizing it as well shortly after. At no point during this period does Goku notice that anything is off or show any sign that he thinks he got weaker. It takes Beerus telling him to make him aware that anything has even changed. To me, this implies that his power was roughly equal in all three forms during that final fight. Beerus' statement that Goku's power hadn't really dropped after exiting the form and absorbing it's power helps to back this up, as the ki that he had lost could have easily just been from using it up during the actual fight.

The Super Saiyan forms function as multipliers, but they also draw on a character's hidden potential according to the guides. With Super Saiyan God requiring the ki of 5 other individuals to activate, taking the user WAY past their natural potential and using a different type of ki as a source of power, I think it's just not compatible. Kinda like you suggested for the Kaio-ken. It's like trying to use a DC current device to amplify a AC current, which, funnily enough, is why I think Kaio couldn't master the technique.

[Doctor.]

It always seemed to me that SSJ Goku did a better job fighting off Beerus than in base. He managed to hit Beerus 2 times if I recall while in base, and in SSJ he hit him quite a bit and even looked like he was evenly matched.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Prior to his Super Saiyan transformation, Goku seems to have forgotten the actual stakes of the battle. He gets upset when Beerus starts using ki attacks, and when the Hakaishin reminds him that it's not a game and that he's fighting for his like and the fate of Earth, Goku gets angry. So chalk it up to Goku getting more serious. Plus he's a "fighting genius" and a Saiyan, so there is an extremely good chance he was adapting more and more as the fight continued.

[Hitiro]

Why does the SSJ multiplier have to change exactly? Why can't it stay the same and the amount that gets applied by it increase instead? Why can't it be like this?

SSJGod Goku = 40x SSJ3 Goku

Base Goku(God Ki) >= SSJ3 Goku

SSJ Goku(God Ki) = 10x SSJGod Goku(Or 50x SSJ3 Goku)

I believe in the movie the lines depict it as Goku not absorbing all of the Godly Ki. Only some of it. As there was a drop in power noted. The example of above is obviously just and example. I don't know how much stronger Goku is with the God Ki absorbed. But I don't think SSJ would make up that much of a difference.

[Kaboom]

We're still not entirely clear on how Goku's god-power works. If it's something separate from his normal power that he can choose to use or not, then going Super Saiyan on top of it might work very differently from otherwise.

Within the context of what we saw in the movie, though, since Beerus said that Goku's power "didn't drop all that much" after he lost the actual god-form, I get the impression that going Super Saiyan at least allowed Goku to make up for whatever power he may have otherwise been losing.

[Tectorman]

Why does the SSJ multiplier have to change exactly? Why can't it stay the same and the amount that gets applied by it increase instead? Why can't it be like this?

SSJGod Goku = 40x SSJ3 Goku

Base Goku(God Ki) >= SSJ3 Goku

SSJ Goku(God Ki) = 10x SSJGod Goku(Or 50x SSJ3 Goku)

I believe in the movie the lines depict it as Goku not absorbing all of the Godly Ki. Only some of it. As there was a drop in power noted. The example of above is obviously just and example. I don't know how much stronger Goku is with the God Ki absorbed. But I don't think SSJ would make up that much of a difference.

SSJG Goku and SSJ Goku both fought Beers at what looked like the same level of ability, factoring in such things as Goku learning the capabilities of God Mode at the beginning and fighting seriously at the end. Add to that the fact that Toriyama only compares one version of Goku to Beers and Whis (6, 10, and 15, respectively), and I think the best assumption we can make is that SSJG = SSJ (with the god-remnant). Maybe Goku's base form was below this but we really can't tell (although with the emphasis being on SSJ as the optimal form to train, I don't think it matters).

As for how those two compare to SSJ3, it's either a multiplier of x100, or it's a multiplier of x50 (but you have to acknowledge that beginning-of-BoG Goku was at least twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. At minimum.

[Low Tone G]

Concerning the mechanism of absorbing the power SSJ-God, it think that we can rely on the facts were shown during the battle. We saw Goku holding back slightly against Beerus until Beerus started to fight seriously. Then Goku reverted to Base form, but still was able to survive Beerus' elbow-strike,(assuming that Beerus did not have enough time to realise that Goku was no more a God when he was about to hit him) I'm certain Beerus was about the same strength like before. So it means that Goku was nearly the same strenght like before as being a God.

I think like this:

Beerus vs. SSJ-God Goku : Beerus 50% of power and Goku 80% power

Beerus vs. Base Goku: Beerus 50-60% of power and Goku 90% of full power as Godly powered base Saiyan (I assume Goku didn't use his power not eve then, but reverint to base caused him to loose about 5% of SSJ-God power, but he could have used only 95% of his former SSJ-God self's full power.

Beerus vs. SSJ Goku: Beerus 60-65% of power till the moment when he unleashed his ultimate attack then it was 70% of power, and Goku used 100% of power as SSJ, but that would mean only 95% of his former God self.

Beerus vs. SSJ-God Goku(2n time transformed). I see here a bit of zenkai for Goku... Beerus 70% and Goku 120% of eariler himself as a God as he was able to overpower Beerus' attack and absorb it.

So Goku's hypothetical 100% in all his forms against Beerus 100% would be:

1st SSJ-God Goku vs Beerus : 6:10
Base Goku vs Beerus: 5.5:10
SSJ Goku vs Beerus: 5.9:10
2nd SSJ-God Goku vs Beerus: 7.1:10

So as an average, Goku's perfomance against Beerus for the whole fight is 6.1. That would accord to Toriyama's power level as he mentioned God Goku as only 6, but he also mentioned that Goku being a saiyan the gap would shrink between him and Beerus, and I believe that most likely did happen.

For God Goku to perform Kaio-ken together with SSJ-God issue...

Kaio-ken it's also a technique just like the Kamemhameha, or Genki-dama, so I think if Goku can use his signature attack as a SSJ God, I think he should be able to perform a 2 times Kaio-ken at least from now on as a God too. I'm assuming that because the whole God Ki is something not only more powerful than he normal one, but also way more stable, so it can be compatible be with Kaio-ken.

However, I do not think Toriyama would introduce that technique once again.

I think Goku not only absorbed the power of SSJ-G, but together with that its nature too. Goku was a SSJ only when commented on Beerus' power, that was too high for him, so he certainly could sense Beerus' power level, so he did possess the same nature.

For SSJ multipliers:

I don't think there is a multiplication issue here, everything is about how good user is Goku in each forms. Goku has trained a lot in SSJ, that suits him the best. I think the difference between Base and 2nd SSJ-God Goku's power is lesser than 20 percent, that would be not even a x0.5 multiplier.

[Hitiro]

SSJG Goku and SSJ Goku both fought Beers at what looked like the same level of ability, factoring in such things as Goku learning the capabilities of God Mode at the beginning and fighting seriously at the end. Add to that the fact that Toriyama only compares one version of Goku to Beers and Whis (6, 10, and 15, respectively), and I think the best assumption we can make is that SSJG = SSJ (with the god-remnant). Maybe Goku's base form was below this but we really can't tell (although with the emphasis being on SSJ as the optimal form to train, I don't think it matters).

As for how those two compare to SSJ3, it's either a multiplier of x100, or it's a multiplier of x50 (but you have to acknowledge that beginning-of-BoG Goku was at least twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. At minimum.

As I said in my post I was just providing an example with my explanation. My point is that Goku's SSJ multiplier doesn't have to change for him to be at the same level he was when he was using SSJGod. We have no idea how much of the God Ki Goku managed to incorporate in his base form. All we know is that it obviously made him stronger than when he thought Beerus at SSJ3. I don't see what Goku being stronger than he was in Boo saga really has to do with this to be honest. Also, I don't see why anybody has to acknowledge Goku being twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. Battle of Gods takes place, what? 5 years after the Boo saga? It took Goku 7 years to surpass Cell Saga Gohan. I don't think Gohan was more than 2x stronger than Goku at this point. Factoring in rage boost and if you leave out the SSJ2 transformation. So Goku could be 2x stronger or not. But I honestly don't think that 2x is the minimum. If anything I'd say that is more like the maximum.

[Low Tone G]

SSJG Goku and SSJ Goku both fought Beers at what looked like the same level of ability, factoring in such things as Goku learning the capabilities of God Mode at the beginning and fighting seriously at the end. Add to that the fact that Toriyama only compares one version of Goku to Beers and Whis (6, 10, and 15, respectively), and I think the best assumption we can make is that SSJG = SSJ (with the god-remnant). Maybe Goku's base form was below this but we really can't tell (although with the emphasis being on SSJ as the optimal form to train, I don't think it matters).

As for how those two compare to SSJ3, it's either a multiplier of x100, or it's a multiplier of x50 (but you have to acknowledge that beginning-of-BoG Goku was at least twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. At minimum.

As I said in my post I was just providing an example with my explanation. My point is that Goku's SSJ multiplier doesn't have to change for him to be at the same level he was when he was using SSJGod. We have no idea how much of the God Ki Goku managed to incorporate in his base form. All we know is that it obviously made him stronger than when he thought Beerus at SSJ3. I don't see what Goku being stronger than he was in Boo saga really has to do with this to be honest. Also, I don't see why anybody has to acknowledge Goku being twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. Battle of Gods takes place, what? 5 years after the Boo saga? It took Goku 7 years to surpass Cell Saga Gohan. I don't think Gohan was more than 2x stronger than Goku at this point. Factoring in rage boost and if you leave out the SSJ2 transformation. So Goku could be 2x stronger or not. But I honestly don't think that 2x is the minimum. If anything I'd say that is more like the maximum.

I do not see the God upgrade at all a multiplier. It's a totally different type of energy so I think to use a multiplier for that is nonsense. And to put SSJ-God in the same line like other SSJ froms is too baseless, for example that SSJ-God is certain number x SSJ3. Toriyama said that every saiyan can go God, even Goten, or Tarble. Goten and Trunks can go only SSJ1. I see it like the Ki of the user is replaced with the God Ki, not multiplied with that. Toriyama also said that the power will vary. My theory is that it will wary based on how trained is the Saiyan body, I think Goku's body is the most trained. Maybe Vegeta is more trained. But Gohan's it not, he just have a state (Mystic/Ultimate) that doesn't need a durable body to sustain it.

[Tectorman]

SSJG Goku and SSJ Goku both fought Beers at what looked like the same level of ability, factoring in such things as Goku learning the capabilities of God Mode at the beginning and fighting seriously at the end. Add to that the fact that Toriyama only compares one version of Goku to Beers and Whis (6, 10, and 15, respectively), and I think the best assumption we can make is that SSJG = SSJ (with the god-remnant). Maybe Goku's base form was below this but we really can't tell (although with the emphasis being on SSJ as the optimal form to train, I don't think it matters).

As for how those two compare to SSJ3, it's either a multiplier of x100, or it's a multiplier of x50 (but you have to acknowledge that beginning-of-BoG Goku was at least twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. At minimum.

As I said in my post I was just providing an example with my explanation. My point is that Goku's SSJ multiplier doesn't have to change for him to be at the same level he was when he was using SSJGod. We have no idea how much of the God Ki Goku managed to incorporate in his base form. All we know is that it obviously made him stronger than when he thought Beerus at SSJ3. I don't see what Goku being stronger than he was in Boo saga really has to do with this to be honest. Also, I don't see why anybody has to acknowledge Goku being twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. Battle of Gods takes place, what? 5 years after the Boo saga? It took Goku 7 years to surpass Cell Saga Gohan. I don't think Gohan was more than 2x stronger than Goku at this point. Factoring in rage boost and if you leave out the SSJ2 transformation. So Goku could be 2x stronger or not. But I honestly don't think that 2x is the minimum. If anything I'd say that is more like the maximum.

Goku says he never felt power like that before, that it was a whole other world to him. We know he knows how strong Super Vegetto was, because he was there.

Super Vegetto was 50x Vegetto. Vegetto was able to fight Buuhan on an even basis. Buuhan was as strong as or stronger than Buutenks, who kicked Gohan around, who had been able to fight Super Buu on better terms than what Super 3 Gotenks had (I actually think Gohan was only as strong as Super 3 Gotenks, he just did better because of his experience and not dickerinng around as much).

Therefore, Vegetto is at least as strong as Super 3 Gotenks. Which is 8x Super Gotenks. Who, for Goku to have had any confidence in his ability to fight Fat Buu, would have to be stronger than Super 2 Goku (he doesn't have to be stronger than Super 3 Goku and I don't think he was, just stronger than what Goku says probably didn't pose much of a challenge for Buu).

So God Mode is 50 x 8 x 2 x what Goku's SSJ abilities were during the Buu Saga, or SSJ3 x100. At minimum. There are plenty of points where these numbers can go much higher, but this is the bare bones minimum.

Unless it can be shown that he made improvement in between then and BoG. And it can. During the Hirudegarn fight, Super 3 Gotenks gets knocked out of the fusion by one of Hirudegarn's final form punches. Super 3 Goku, on the other hand, takes multiple such hits. It is therefore arguable that he got twice as strong, since Super 3 Gotenks was previously twice as strong and now they're either even or Super 3 Goku's in the lead.

This is supported by the events of BoG. If Gohan were still above Vegeta and Goku, then wouldn't everyone have been remarking that Vegeta had finally surpassed Gohan, never mind Goku? That, plus Vegeta's superior performance against Beers, says Gohan was not the top fighter.

So, God Mode is, at least, SSJ3 x100, or SSJ3 x50 and Goku got twice as strong since Buu.

[Hitiro]

I do not see the God upgrade at all a multiplier. It's a totally different type of energy so I think to use a multiplier for that is nonsense. And to put SSJ-God in the same line like other SSJ froms is too baseless, for example that SSJ-God is certain number x SSJ3. Toriyama said that every saiyan can go God, even Goten, or Tarble. Goten and Trunks can go nly SSJ1. I see it like the Ki of the user is replaced with the God Ki, not multiplied with that. Toriyama also said that the power will vary. My theory is that it will wary based on how trained is the Saiyan body, I think Goku's body is the most trained. Maybe Vegeta is more trained. But Gohan's it not, he just have a state (Mystic/Ultimate) that doesn't need a durable body to sustain it.

When did I ever say SSJGod was a multiplier? And when did I put SSJGod in the same line as the other SSJ forms? Also. Why you are you assuming that when I said SSJGod is SSJ3x40 do you think I meant in terms of multiplier? As I said in my previous posts I was just giving an example. In that example I was saying that while Goku was in SSJGod he could be, for instance, 40 times stronger than he was in his SSJ3 form. I never said SSJGod has a multiplier and it is 16,000x base or anything like that. I didn't say SSJGod was 40x SSJ3. I said SSJGod was 40x SSJ3 Goku.

Goku says he never felt power like that before, that it was a whole other world to him. We know he knows how strong Super Vegetto was, because he was there.

What Goku said was that he didn't know this world/realm existed. And he says its a world/realm he could never reach by himself.

こんな世界があったなんてよ
kon'na sekai ga atta nante yo

Which is a bit hard to translate literally, but he's expressing surprise that there could be a "world" like this (ie like Super Saiyan God). Then he says that it's a "world" he couldn't reach on his own.

He never says anything to pertain to his power so we don't actually know if he is stronger than SSJ Vegetto. We only know for a fact that Beerus is due to the movie saying that he transcends all characters so far. Beerus wasn't fighting Goku seriously, so we can't say that Goku is or isn't stronger than SSJ Vegetto.

Super Vegetto was 50x Vegetto. Vegetto was able to fight Buuhan on an even basis. Buuhan was as strong as or stronger than Buutenks, who kicked Gohan around, who had been able to fight Super Buu on better terms than what Super 3 Gotenks had (I actually think Gohan was only as strong as Super 3 Gotenks, he just did better because of his experience and not dickerinng around as much).

Vegetto never thought Boohan in his base form. Only in his SSJ form. Base Vegetto fighting Boohan was filler in the anime.

Therefore, Vegetto is at least as strong as Super 3 Gotenks. Which is 8x Super Gotenks. Who, for Goku to have had any confidence in his ability to fight Fat Buu, would have to be stronger than Super 2 Goku (he doesn't have to be stronger than Super 3 Goku and I don't think he was, just stronger than what Goku says probably didn't pose much of a challenge for Buu).

Debatable. Vegetto never thought Boohan in his base form, like I said. So Vegetto could only between SSJ2 and SSJ3 Goku for all we know, right? Base Vegetto doesn't have to be as strong as SSJ3 Gotenks.

So God Mode is 50 x 8 x 2 x what Goku's SSJ abilities were during the Buu Saga, or SSJ3 x100. At minimum. There are plenty of points where these numbers can go much higher, but this is the bare bones minimum.

If we were to put Vegetto as weaker than what you say. Because you are using the anime filler which actually made him a lot stronger than he was. Then you would have to remove the x8. Right? Then would it not be 50 x 4(Don't know where the 2 came from, I'm assuming that you're saying SSJ2? So I knocked it up to 4 to put Vegetto at 50% SSJ3 Goku) x SSJ Goku's abilities? Making SSJGod only SSJ3 x25?

Unless it can be shown that he made improvement in between then and BoG. And it can. During the Hirudegarn fight, Super 3 Gotenks gets knocked out of the fusion by one of Hirudegarn's final form punches. Super 3 Goku, on the other hand, takes multiple such hits. It is therefore arguable that he got twice as strong, since Super 3 Gotenks was previously twice as strong and now they're either even or Super 3 Goku's in the lead.

You are pulling in stuff that never happened though? You can't say Goku made an improvement due to the Hirudegarn fight. Because in the Official timeline the Hirudegarn fight never happened. It's like the Base Vegetto fight with Boohan. Never happened. If you want to pull in filler and movies that spin into alternate universes then why not bring in SSJ3 Goku being able to hold off and dodge Bootenks attacks? That would surely make Goku exceed Gotenks before the end of the Boo saga?

This is supported by the events of BoG. If Gohan were still above Vegeta and Goku, then wouldn't everyone have been remarking that Vegeta had finally surpassed Gohan, never mind Goku? That, plus Vegeta's superior performance against Beers, says Gohan was not the top fighter.

Wasn't it only Beerus who remarked that Vegeta had surpassed Goku? I honestly don't remember. If it was only Beerus that remarked that then it can be seen as him comparing the person he considers closest to being SSJGod. Because Goku was the one who defeated Freeza so Beerus had his eyes set on him.

So, God Mode is, at least, SSJ3 x100, or SSJ3 x50 and Goku got twice as strong since Buu.

If Goku got twice as strong since the Boo saga, which is possible not saying it's not, then he still wouldn't hold a candle to Gohan anyway. Because Gohan is a couple times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks who is several times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. For Goku to surpass them both in the 5 years he would have to have become stronger by 10's of times. Which I would find ludicrous considering he was training flat out for 7 years up till the Boo saga and only got a couple of times stronger to put himself above Gohan.

[Low Tone G]

SSJG Goku and SSJ Goku both fought Beers at what looked like the same level of ability, factoring in such things as Goku learning the capabilities of God Mode at the beginning and fighting seriously at the end. Add to that the fact that Toriyama only compares one version of Goku to Beers and Whis (6, 10, and 15, respectively), and I think the best assumption we can make is that SSJG = SSJ (with the god-remnant). Maybe Goku's base form was below this but we really can't tell (although with the emphasis being on SSJ as the optimal form to train, I don't think it matters).

As for how those two compare to SSJ3, it's either a multiplier of x100, or it's a multiplier of x50 (but you have to acknowledge that beginning-of-BoG Goku was at least twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. At minimum.

As I said in my post I was just providing an example with my explanation. My point is that Goku's SSJ multiplier doesn't have to change for him to be at the same level he was when he was using SSJGod. We have no idea how much of the God Ki Goku managed to incorporate in his base form. All we know is that it obviously made him stronger than when he thought Beerus at SSJ3. I don't see what Goku being stronger than he was in Boo saga really has to do with this to be honest. Also, I don't see why anybody has to acknowledge Goku being twice as strong as in the Buu Saga. Battle of Gods takes place, what? 5 years after the Boo saga? It took Goku 7 years to surpass Cell Saga Gohan. I don't think Gohan was more than 2x stronger than Goku at this point. Factoring in rage boost and if you leave out the SSJ2 transformation. So Goku could be 2x stronger or not. But I honestly don't think that 2x is the minimum. If anything I'd say that is more like the maximum.

Goku says he never felt power like that before, that it was a whole other world to him. We know he knows how strong Super Vegetto was, because he was there.

Super Vegetto was 50x Vegetto. Vegetto was able to fight Buuhan on an even basis. Buuhan was as strong as or stronger than Buutenks, who kicked Gohan around, who had been able to fight Super Buu on better terms than what Super 3 Gotenks had (I actually think Gohan was only as strong as Super 3 Gotenks, he just did better because of his experience and not dickerinng around as much).

Therefore, Vegetto is at least as strong as Super 3 Gotenks. Which is 8x Super Gotenks. Who, for Goku to have had any confidence in his ability to fight Fat Buu, would have to be stronger than Super 2 Goku (he doesn't have to be stronger than Super 3 Goku and I don't think he was, just stronger than what Goku says probably didn't pose much of a challenge for Buu).

So God Mode is 50 x 8 x 2 x what Goku's SSJ abilities were during the Buu Saga, or SSJ3 x100. At minimum. There are plenty of points where these numbers can go much higher, but this is the bare bones minimum.

Unless it can be shown that he made improvement in between then and BoG. And it can. During the Hirudegarn fight, Super 3 Gotenks gets knocked out of the fusion by one of Hirudegarn's final form punches. Super 3 Goku, on the other hand, takes multiple such hits. It is therefore arguable that he got twice as strong, since Super 3 Gotenks was previously twice as strong and now they're either even or Super 3 Goku's in the lead.

This is supported by the events of BoG. If Gohan were still above Vegeta and Goku, then wouldn't everyone have been remarking that Vegeta had finally surpassed Gohan, never mind Goku? That, plus Vegeta's superior performance against Beers, says Gohan was not the top fighter.

So, God Mode is, at least, SSJ3 x100, or SSJ3 x50 and Goku got twice as strong since Buu.

Hm... As I do not see the God mode at all a muliplier, I'd say that x100 is way too low for that ugrade that Goku experienced. He said Vegetto wouldn't be enough for a highly suppressed Beerus(as Beerus surely was waaay below his full power I think he didn't even used 1% of his power). We can assume that SSJ3 Vegetto could have been also possible with a little training if Gotenks was able to master in in a month having as Trunks and Goten a rookie SSJ1s. I'm certain that Beerus can suppress himself below Godly realm of power, because other wise he could have killed Bulma after that slapping, which seemed to be serious. I think in the worst case that power is 2.500 times bigger if we view it as multiplier for SSJ3, not mention that it doesn't need a saiyan to be alreadly a Super Saiyan, so it changes the saiyan's base energy. I see it more like x1.000.000 for base. But I don't think it can be viewed as a multiplier, because it gives another type of nature to the user.

Let's assume the Original Saiyan God was at 15.000 at base, as Vegeta said he was the most powerful saiyan in their history. So with the multiplier of x1.000.000 it would be only 15.000.000.000 (fifteen billion). So he would have lost to Buu saga SSJ3 Goku. And that is not what BOG movie tells us about the Godly Ki, it tells that increased battle power isn't enough to compete the Godly Ki.

I think it gives a certain amount of power via magic, and the powers will vary in every indivudual case, but the diffferences shouldn't be bigger than 10 times. I view the Original Saiyan God a 2 compared to God Goku who is a 6, if Beerus is a 10, and Whis a 15.

[hleV]

I suppose that either SSG's godly ki completely replaces the normal ki of base/SS/SS2/SS3, or they just add up. SS forms should only multiply ki, not godly ki. SSG's power is either constant or dependant on the user's normal ki, but SS forms themselves shouldn't affect the godly ki itself as it's a natural Saiyan transformation which logically thinking shouldn't be compatible with anything else but a Saiyan's natural power (normal ki). If any of this makes sense.

[Tectorman]

I do not see the God upgrade at all a multiplier. It's a totally different type of energy so I think to use a multiplier for that is nonsense. And to put SSJ-God in the same line like other SSJ froms is too baseless, for example that SSJ-God is certain number x SSJ3. Toriyama said that every saiyan can go God, even Goten, or Tarble. Goten and Trunks can go nly SSJ1. I see it like the Ki of the user is replaced with the God Ki, not multiplied with that. Toriyama also said that the power will vary. My theory is that it will wary based on how trained is the Saiyan body, I think Goku's body is the most trained. Maybe Vegeta is more trained. But Gohan's it not, he just have a state (Mystic/Ultimate) that doesn't need a durable body to sustain it.

When did I ever say SSJGod was a multiplier? And when did I put SSJGod in the same line as the other SSJ forms? Also. Why you are you assuming that when I said SSJGod is SSJ3x40 do you think I meant in terms of multiplier? As I said in my previous posts I was just giving an example. In that example I was saying that while Goku was in SSJGod he could be, for instance, 40 times stronger than he was in his SSJ3 form. I never said SSJGod has a multiplier and it is 16,000x base or anything like that. I didn't say SSJGod was 40x SSJ3. I said SSJGod was 40x SSJ3 Goku.

Goku says he never felt power like that before, that it was a whole other world to him. We know he knows how strong Super Vegetto was, because he was there.

What Goku said was that he didn't know this world/realm existed. And he says its a world/realm he could never reach by himself.

こんな世界があったなんてよ
kon'na sekai ga atta nante yo

Which is a bit hard to translate literally, but he's expressing surprise that there could be a "world" like this (ie like Super Saiyan God). Then he says that it's a "world" he couldn't reach on his own.

He never says anything to pertain to his power so we don't actually know if he is stronger than SSJ Vegetto. We only know for a fact that Beerus is due to the movie saying that he transcends all characters so far. Beerus wasn't fighting Goku seriously, so we can't say that Goku is or isn't stronger than SSJ Vegetto.

Super Vegetto was 50x Vegetto. Vegetto was able to fight Buuhan on an even basis. Buuhan was as strong as or stronger than Buutenks, who kicked Gohan around, who had been able to fight Super Buu on better terms than what Super 3 Gotenks had (I actually think Gohan was only as strong as Super 3 Gotenks, he just did better because of his experience and not dickerinng around as much).

Vegetto never thought Boohan in his base form. Only in his SSJ form. Base Vegetto fighting Boohan was filler in the anime.

Therefore, Vegetto is at least as strong as Super 3 Gotenks. Which is 8x Super Gotenks. Who, for Goku to have had any confidence in his ability to fight Fat Buu, would have to be stronger than Super 2 Goku (he doesn't have to be stronger than Super 3 Goku and I don't think he was, just stronger than what Goku says probably didn't pose much of a challenge for Buu).

Debatable. Vegetto never thought Boohan in his base form, like I said. So Vegetto could only between SSJ2 and SSJ3 Goku for all we know, right? Base Vegetto doesn't have to be as strong as SSJ3 Gotenks.

So God Mode is 50 x 8 x 2 x what Goku's SSJ abilities were during the Buu Saga, or SSJ3 x100. At minimum. There are plenty of points where these numbers can go much higher, but this is the bare bones minimum.

If we were to put Vegetto as weaker than what you say. Because you are using the anime filler which actually made him a lot stronger than he was. Then you would have to remove the x8. Right? Then would it not be 50 x 4(Don't know where the 2 came from, I'm assuming that you're saying SSJ2? So I knocked it up to 4 to put Vegetto at 50% SSJ3 Goku) x SSJ Goku's abilities? Making SSJGod only SSJ3 x25?

Unless it can be shown that he made improvement in between then and BoG. And it can. During the Hirudegarn fight, Super 3 Gotenks gets knocked out of the fusion by one of Hirudegarn's final form punches. Super 3 Goku, on the other hand, takes multiple such hits. It is therefore arguable that he got twice as strong, since Super 3 Gotenks was previously twice as strong and now they're either even or Super 3 Goku's in the lead.

You are pulling in stuff that never happened though? You can't say Goku made an improvement due to the Hirudegarn fight. Because in the Official timeline the Hirudegarn fight never happened. It's like the Base Vegetto fight with Boohan. Never happened. If you want to pull in filler and movies that spin into alternate universes then why not bring in SSJ3 Goku being able to hold off and dodge Bootenks attacks? That would surely make Goku exceed Gotenks before the end of the Boo saga?

This is supported by the events of BoG. If Gohan were still above Vegeta and Goku, then wouldn't everyone have been remarking that Vegeta had finally surpassed Gohan, never mind Goku? That, plus Vegeta's superior performance against Beers, says Gohan was not the top fighter.

Wasn't it only Beerus who remarked that Vegeta had surpassed Goku? I honestly don't remember. If it was only Beerus that remarked that then it can be seen as him comparing the person he considers closest to being SSJGod. Because Goku was the one who defeated Freeza so Beerus had his eyes set on him.

So, God Mode is, at least, SSJ3 x100, or SSJ3 x50 and Goku got twice as strong since Buu.

If Goku got twice as strong since the Boo saga, which is possible not saying it's not, then he still wouldn't hold a candle to Gohan anyway. Because Gohan is a couple times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks who is several times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. For Goku to surpass them both in the 5 years he would have to have become stronger by 10's of times. Which I would find ludicrous considering he was training flat out for 7 years up till the Boo saga and only got a couple of times stronger to put himself above Gohan.

As I said, I'm not convinced that Gohan was stronger than Super 3 Gotenks. He fights better, but how much of that is due to his greater experience, his taking the fight and its consequences more seriously, and his greater endurance compared to Super 3 Gotenks' five minutes? And like I said, Super 3 Gotenks is at least twice as strong as Super 3 Goku (as of the Buu Saga), but anything more is supposition (probably reasonable supposition, but guesswork nonetheless).

It's Roshi that makes the comment. One of the Z Fighters for certain, and I'm pretty sure it was Roshi.

I'm making the supposition based on what happens in BoG. The Hirudegarn fight illustrates by how much. Ignoring it doesn't change how strong God Mode is (it's Goku's Buu Saga SSJ abilities x800 either way), but I don't see the point of banning non-contradictory anime material. For example, the fight between Super 3 Goku and Buutenks doesn't take long enough for his being outclassed to really come into play, so he can still be plenty weaker than what Super 3 Gotenks was capable of and have done the little he did during that fight. Not contradictory at all.

I'm basing the comparison between SSJG Goku and Super Vegetto on the fact that in DBZ, comparisons are usually across the board unless specifically stated otherwise (i.e., Kaioken x10 is everything x10, while USSJ2 doesn't boost speed like everything else). The difference between mortal ki and divine ki is such that divine ki cannot be sensed by mortals, but the differences between Beers and Super 3 Goku were more than just Goku not being able to dense him. Beers had him outclassed in speed, strength, and everything else such that even if Goku had been able to read Beers's ki, he still would've lost and just as utterly. Therefore, Goku not being aware of that world of power when he was aware of Super Vegetto's world of power means he's stronger. Not just able to sense new things and existing on a different plane, but being stronger.

[Low Tone G]

I suppose that either SSG's godly ki completely replaces the normal ki of base/SS/SS2/SS3, or they just add up. SS forms should only multiply ki, not godly ki. SSG's power is either constant or dependant on the user's normal ki, but SS forms themselves shouldn't affect the godly ki itself as it's a natural Saiyan transformation which logically thinking shouldn't be compatible with anything else but a Saiyan's natural power (normal ki). If any of this makes sense.

I guess that it completely replaces it. If Toriyama said Goku doesn't need anymore to take the form of the Super Saiyan God, becuase he has it absorbed, and also said he doesn't need SSJ2&3 anymore, I think that realm of power was very well made of his own, and was absorbed nearly in totality. I think that the base strength somewhat matters, but there won't be incomparable differences between the Saiyans who were upgraded God. The whole God upgrade is totally other than the SSJ trasformations, they draw the hidden power of the user, the God makes him totally another beings.

[Hitiro]

As I said, I'm not convinced that Gohan was stronger than Super 3 Gotenks. He fights better, but how much of that is due to his greater experience, his taking the fight and its consequences more seriously, and his greater endurance compared to Super 3 Gotenks' five minutes? And like I said, Super 3 Gotenks is at least twice as strong as Super 3 Goku (as of the Buu Saga), but anything more is supposition (probably reasonable supposition, but guesswork nonetheless).

Actually, considering Goku thought that SSJ Gotenks would be enough to defeat Fat Boo then SSJ3 Gotenks would be more than twice as strong as SSJ3 Goku. If we take it that SSJ Gotenks is between SSJ2 Goku and SSJ3 Goku. Lets just say for arguments sake that Gotenks was only 50% of SSJ3 Goku(Or 2x stronger than SSJ2 Goku) and that would be enough to beat Fat Boo. Then it would look something like this:

SSJ2 Goku: 2

SSJ Gotenks = 4

SSJ3 Goku: 2 * 4(4 times stronger than SSJ2 or 400x base) = 8

SSJ3 Gotenks = 4*8(8 times stronger than SSJ) = 32

As you can see SSJ3 Gotenks would be 4 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku if SSJ Gotenks is 50% of SSJ3 Goku. Now. You can argue that SSJ Gotenks is weaker than this. But we know that Vegeta, who was Goku's equal, could not put up a fight against Fat Boo at SSJ2. He got utterly destroyed. I think it is reasonable to think that Boo is at least twice as strong as SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta. Anything less and I don't think Vegeta would have been destroyed as badly.

You also say that you aren't convinced Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? When the manga pretty much points out Evil Boo <= SSJ3 Gotenks < Gohan? In the manga Evil Boo says that the only person stronger than him is Gohan, that's why he formed the plan to absorb Gotenks to beat Gohan.

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P2.3-4
Boo: “Far, far, waa~~aay far away, I felt a strong power…I won’t allow anyone to have a power stronger than mine…”

Here Evil Boo pertains to only Gohan being stronger than him, meaning Gotenks is either on par or weaker than him.

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P7.4-5
Context: after Boo disappears
Trunks: “Even if he really is still alive, it doesn’t matter! That jerk was helpless against Gohan! [Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!”
Goten: “He was even stronger.”
Trunks: “Really? …Yeah…Just a little bit.”

Chapter: 495 (DBZ 301), P6.1-3, P7.1-3
Context: after Gotenks blasts Boo with the Rapid-Fire Die-Die Missiles and Piccolo stops him
Gotenks: “Well, whatever. I already did quite a lot, after all. He should be pretty weakened.”
*Boo comes out*
Gotenks: “…He ain’t weakened…This really pisses me off!”
Piccolo: “N-no…He is weakened…I don’t know about physically, but he’s weakened a little mentally…! Th-this is the first time…that he’s fought someone strong like you…He’s feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own…”
Gotenks: “Dehhehheh! So in other words, Majin Boo’s freaked out, huh!? That’s right! My strength ain’t half-assed! I’m the best in the universe!”
Piccolo: “Don’t let your guard down! He’ll be coming at you frantically now…!”
Gotenks: “Dahhahhah, that’s no problem, no problem at all! That’s just what I was hoping for!”

As you can see from the text in the manga SSJ3 Gotenks is either stronger than Evil Boo, weaker than him or on par with him in terms of strength. Whereas Gohan is definitely stronger than the both of them. I tend to believe that SSJ3 Gotenks is just a bit stronger than Evil Boo. But it is highly possible that SSJ3 Gotenks is weaker or just on par with him. And the reason SSJ3 Gotenks put up a good fight is because the kids have great battle sense and incredibly strong Ki based attacks.

I'm making the supposition based on what happens in BoG. The Hirudegarn fight illustrates by how much. Ignoring it doesn't change how strong God Mode is (it's Goku's Buu Saga SSJ abilities x800 either way), but I don't see the point of banning non-contradictory anime material. For example, the fight between Super 3 Goku and Buutenks doesn't take long enough for his being outclassed to really come into play, so he can still be plenty weaker than what Super 3 Gotenks was capable of and have done the little he did during that fight. Not contradictory at all.

Banning anime material is perfectly legitimate in this context because if you include anime material you get get inconsistencies. Like Vegetto and Goku being stronger than they should be. It should have been clearly evident straight away that SSJ3 Goku was outclassed by Bootenks. Because as I said earlier Evil Boo is about as strong as SSJ3 Gotenks with SSJ3 Gotenks possibly being slightly stronger. Let us assume that SSJ3 Gotenks is only 2x stronger than SSJ3 Goku like you said. That means that Bootenks is 4x stronger than SSJ3 Goku because Bootenks is made up of two characters that are practically 2x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. If we go back to the beginning of the Saiyan Saga. Raditz was only 3x stronger than Goku and Piccolo. Raditz wasn't going all out but he could easily hit Goku and Piccolo without them being able to react as we see during the fight. SSJ3 Goku would have not been able to avoid a serious attack by Bootenks.

Later we see SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta defeat Evil Boo in the anime filler too when they are inside Evil Boo. In the manga Vegeta just pulls Fat Boo out so they never fight. If Evil Boo is 2x stronger than SSJ3 Goku then he is 16x stronger than
SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta. They would not have been able to defeat him. This is the problem with anime filler. We also see in anime filler Popo being able to block attacks from 2 SSJ children that are nearly on par with SSJ Gohan. Now. There is no way for Popo to do that unless he was Android tier levels of strength.

I'm basing the comparison between SSJG Goku and Super Vegetto on the fact that in DBZ, comparisons are usually across the board unless specifically stated otherwise (i.e., Kaioken x10 is everything x10, while USSJ2 doesn't boost speed like everything else). The difference between mortal ki and divine ki is such that divine ki cannot be sensed by mortals, but the differences between Beers and Super 3 Goku were more than just Goku not being able to dense him. Beers had him outclassed in speed, strength, and everything else such that even if Goku had been able to read Beers's ki, he still would've lost and just as utterly. Therefore, Goku not being aware of that world of power when he was aware of Super Vegetto's world of power means he's stronger. Not just able to sense new things and existing on a different plane, but being stronger.

You say the difference between mortal Ki and God Ki is that God Ki can't be sensed by mortals. How do you know this is where the differences stop? We don't know everything about God Ki. For all we know God Ki could be more potent than mortal Ki. Thus, somebody who has a lot of mortal Ki would lose to someone with half as much God Ki as the mortal Ki. God Ki has yet to be fully explained. For all we know 1 value of God Ki equals 50 values of mortal Ki. And I don't see how Goku saying he didn't know there could be a "world" like this means that he is stronger then SSJ Vegetto. That is just a baseless assumption you're making. Goku never pertains to the level of strength he has now. He never makes a point about it being strongest Ki he's ever known or anything. For all we know SSJGod Goku is below SSJ Vegetto and Beerus is above SSJ Vegetto. While there if no proof that Goku isn't stronger than SSJ Vegetto. There is no proof that he is either. So this is just one of those things you will have take on the chin and just roll with it that either one of us could be right. But like I said, you can't for certain say that SSJGod is stronger than SSJ Vegetto. That is just an opinion. Not a fact. Until we get a line in the next movie that says otherwise.

[Low Tone G]

You say the difference between mortal Ki and God Ki is that God Ki can't be sensed by mortals. How do you know this is where the differences stop? We don't know everything about God Ki. For all we know God Ki could be more potent than mortal Ki. Thus, somebody who has a lot of mortal Ki would lose to someone with half as much God Ki as the mortal Ki. God Ki has yet to be fully explained. For all we know 1 value of God Ki equals 50 values of mortal Ki. And I don't see how Goku saying he didn't know there could be a "world" like this means that he is stronger then SSJ Vegetto. That is just a baseless assumption you're making. Goku never pertains to the level of strength he has now. He never makes a point about it being strongest Ki he's ever known or anything. For all we know SSJGod Goku is below SSJ Vegetto and Beerus is above SSJ Vegetto. While there if no proof that Goku isn't stronger than SSJ Vegetto. There is no proof that he is either. So this is just one of those things you will have take on the chin and just roll with it that either one of us could be right. But like I said, you can't for certain say that SSJGod is stronger than SSJ Vegetto. That is just an opinion. Not a fact. Until we get a line in the next movie that says otherwise.

I personally, I guess I'm more informed than you are. Let me prove myself. You are discussing about the difference between the two types of Ki. But I think you should follow an interview of Toriyama(I can not find it right now, but trust me I'm not stating any false information) that tells us about the condtions to become stronger in the DB. He said that the physical strength, in other words the power of muscles, provide very little power, and that has a limit, that is limit is very low. To overcome that limit You need to improve Your Ki, but he still adds that too much of it goes out of control, so the Ki control is also important. This interview was realised after the Battle Gods movie debut.

I'm guessing that if the Ki has this nature, then it should exist a level of Ki when is gets out of control even for the strongest fusions.(SSJ3 Vegerot for example) If we already know that high battle power isn't enough to compete the God Ki, then I suppose the God Ki is above the normal Ki's stable range. I can imagine an instable normal Ki to compete the God ki, but it wouldn't useful as would make the user to explode or he would lost that Ki as instant as he gets it.

For SSJ Vegetto being stronger than SSJ-God Goku, no way! Not only becuase Goku right said that he never witnessed a power like that before, but also said in the extended edition of the film that Vegetto wouldn't be enough not even for a highly supperessed Beerus.

[Hitiro]

I personally, I guess I'm more informed than you are. Let me prove myself.

For starters I'd appreciate it if you didn't say something like this, I don't think you meant it in a malicious manner. But it came across as you saying I'm not as educated as you are when it comes to the DB universe. There is no reason to even say this. You could have just started off the conversation with everything following this sentence and left this sentence out. I may not know more about the DB universe then you. Or I might know as much as you or more. But there is no reason to go pointing out people inferiority over the these posts. It's just rude and is usually a spark for some very nasty and heated debates that we don't really want on these forums.

You are discussing about the difference between the two types of Ki. But I think you should follow an interview of Toriyama(I can not find it right now, but trust me I'm not stating any false information) that tells us about the condtions to become stronger in the DB. He said that the physical strength, in other words the power of muscles, provide very little power, and that has a limit, that is limit is very low. To overcome that limit You need to improve Your Ki, but he still adds that too much of it goes out of control, so the Ki control is also important. This interview was realised after the Battle Gods movie debut.

I'm familiar with this interview. It was in the Chozenshuu. What Toriyama actually says in this that the more you increase your Ki the harder it is to control. Not that "too much of it goes out of control". So Ki Control is important. If you think back to Goku and his friends at the last Tenkaichi Budokai in the Boo saga. They had a difficult time controlling their Ki when it came to punching the punching machine. The more Ki you have the harder it will be to hold back enough for certain scenarios. If you think about it now. Goku and the rest of the Saiyan's have a crucial problem with firing Ki blasts. Because all their Ki blasts exceed the battle power we know can destroy planets. 530,000. Goku and the Saiyans have no trouble throwing around blasts of this quantity any more and it is very difficult for them to throw blasts that are under this level of power. For the humans they don't have to worry about that.

Because they are much weaker than the Saiyans, holding back enough to not release blasts that can destroy the planet is much easier. I'd also refer you to when Goku came back to Earth and he patted Chi Chi on the back sending her flying through a wall. Because he forgot that he had become insanely strong and hadn't learnt to control himself better yet. Also, this interview was actually released before the Battle of Gods debut. This interview was in the first Chozenshuu which was released in February, 2013. Battle of Gods came out in March, 2013. But all this is besides the point. What I was pointing out is we don't know how potent God Ki is compared to regular Ki. A small portion of God Ki could be much much stronger than regular Ki. We don't know the inner workings of God Ki other than it can't be sensed by beings who don't have God Ki themselves.

I'm guessing that if the Ki has this nature, then it should exist a level of Ki when is gets out of control even for the strongest fusions.(SSJ3 Vegerot for example) If we already know that high battle power isn't enough to compete the God Ki, then I suppose the God Ki is above the normal Ki's stable range. I can imagine an instable normal Ki to compete the God ki, but it wouldn't useful as would make the user to explode or he would lost that Ki as instant as he gets it.

Ki doesn't have this nature though. As I explained in my last paragraph. Ki has the problem that the more you increase it the harder it is to reign it in. Goku could walk around on Earth with as much regular Ki as Beerus has God Ki if he wanted. It isn't going to blow him up or doom the planet. It is only when Goku has to fire a Kamehameha or a Ki blast that he needs Ki control or he will doom the planet. It isn't like if Goku had that much regular Ki he would literally be blowing up everything because Ki would just pour out of his body. There is no "stability" when it comes to Ki. Only control problems where you are trying to hold back in order to not effect your everyday life.

For SSJ Vegetto being stronger than SSJ-God Goku, no way! Not only becuase Goku right said that he never witnessed a power like that before,

I think you need to check my post a few posts back. Goku never says he has never witnessed power like that before. What Goku says is he never knew that "world"(God Ki/SSJGod) existed and that he couldn't reach this "world"(God Ki/SSJGod) reach it on his own. Goku never says anything about strength. So you can't really say that this means SSJGod Goku > SSJ Vegetto. I'm not against the idea that SSJGod Goku is above SSJ Vegetto. And I honestly don't think Beerus would lose to SSJ Vegetto either. But nothing indicates SSJGod Goku's strength in relation to SSJ Vegetto. So you can't just say "Yeah, SSJGod Goku > SSJ Vegetto." Unless you have some hard evidence.

but also said in the extended edition of the film that Vegetto wouldn't be enough not even for a highly supperessed Beerus.

I have not seen the extended edition. So I can't possibly comment on this. But if it is indeed said in the movie then okay. But the problem would be what counts as "highly suppressed"? Because wasn't Cell supposed to be "heavily suppressed" himself, or was it just "suppressed"? And if Cell was, "heavily suppressed" what would be the percentage of that? Because we know Beerus was apparently only using 70%(?) of his full power. And I honestly don't think Beerus had to even use that much because he was still trumping SSJGod Goku by a decent margin. Though, I actually checked this thread about the new scenes and such in the extended edition and it doesn't say anything about how Vegetto would compared to Beerus. Can you provide a source. Like a timestamp from the movie so I can check it out myself?

[Low Tone G]

For starters I'd appreciate it if you didn't say something like this, I don't think you meant it in a malicious manner. But it came across as you saying I'm not as educated as you are when it comes to the DB universe. There is no reason to even say this. You could have just started off the conversation with everything following this sentence and left this sentence out. I may not know more about the DB universe then you. Or I might know as much as you or more. But there is no reason to go pointing out people inferiority over the these posts. It's just rude and is usually a spark for some very nasty and heated debates that we don't really want on these forums.

Please, excuse me for the way I formulated back there and I wasn't aware of my disrespect towards you. As you said I did not mean in a malicious manner. Yeah, I'm a starter here on kanzenshuu.com, but not a starter in the world of Dragon Ball, however I didn't want to say anything about how educated are you in general about this universe, I just wanted to point out that maybe you didn't manage to watch the extended edition, and maybe you missed that interview of Toriyama. But I was wrong, you are aware that interview! All that you are point out, are true, so again forgive me...

For the topic.... As you said about the controlling Ki that is supposed to mean the way a user uses it to not cause any problem in his everyday life, You are perfectly right! But maybe the Ki does have such a nature(of course it's a just theory of mine) that it puts too much strain on body as the more you possess it. I took the example of SSJ3 form. For Goku was very hard to maintain it, so Goku's body wasn't enough developed to keep it efficiently, the same goes for Gotenks, who was a fusion so he has a more resistant body(I guess). So I guess the Ki itself should have a level when it put so much of strain for the body that it becomes too much to handle even for the strongest known fusion(Vegetto). There is a popular belief that the God Ki is stronger that the inifinite normal Ki... I started to think that it would be too ridiculous to be true. So I've made up a theory, that the normal Ki shouldn't be limitless to grow, it should have a limit when there is no further beyond. So I imagine a power to be too much to handle for a mortal body, so to overcome that obstacle it was introduced the God Ki, which apparently doesn't have any kind of problem to be hard to maintain it.

For Vegetto to appear in in Goku monolog in Battle of Gods... You're right, Goku didn't mention the name of Vegetto, but it is still very reasonable that he was who Goku was referring to. There are two reasons to believe that it was Vegetto Goku was speaking about, when he was defeated by Beerus on King Kai's Planet, as a Super Saiyan 3:

1.Vegetto was created by Toriyama, and Goku spoke about the merging/fusion with Vegeta(I do not speak Japanese, so I must rely on the subtitle), so he probably meant Vegetto, not Gogeta. And he was a better option than Gogeta would have been due to the time-limit.
2.Vegetto was possible to appear in the BOG movie too because in the Buu saga there were 3 pairs of potara earrings, and the last one wasn't used at all, and was kept by Kibito Kai, as we can see it in the movie.

For SSJ-God Goku to be most likely stronger than Vegetto...

I've made that statement about Beerus that he was heavily suppressed, because when Goku made a reference for a fusion of him and Vegeta he had witnessed only a fraction of Beerus' true power, but that was enough for Goku to deduce that a fusion was too little to win. We also know that Beerus ended up even stronger than Goku judged him to be. So if Goku didn't even know how powerful was Beerus in reality and he based his guesses only on his experiences from the battle between SSJ3 himself and Beerus, I can guess that the SSJ-God self should be stronger than Super Vegetto(at least).