Beyond Super Saiyajin 4?

[Black Hawk]

In Dragon Ball GT episode 55, "Buruma in Action! The Project to Rebuild Vegeta", a mention of a hypothetical Super Saiyajin 5 form is made. While Buruma is responsible for mentioning it in the English FUNimation dub, suggesting that Vegeta "might even reach Super Saiyajin 5," the dialogue in the original Japanese version is quite different.

Buruma: (She brings up schematics for the Bruits wave emitter.) Once we use this Bruits wave emitter, surpassing even Super Saiyajin 4 will no longer be a dream.
Vegeta: Surpass Super Saiyajin 4?! Buruma, when will you have it completed?
Buruma: Before the Earth is destroyed.
Vegeta: Nice work! (He crushes the canned drink in his hand.) Kakarotto, bring on your Super Saiyajin 4, or 5, or whatever you want! I'm still not finished!
Buruma: You sure are a battle-loving Saiyajin! But then, I'm still that Saiyajin's wife. (She winks.)
Vegeta: (Cue epic blushing.)

This seems to imply that, via ample exposure to large quantities of Bruits waves, not only could Vegeta reach Super Saiyajin 4, proven true in episode 59, but, provided he is exposed to further and larger quantities of Bruits waves, he could also break through the "barrier" of Super Saiyajin 4, similar to how he, Trunks, and Gokū reached the advanced Super Saiyajin 1 states, or how he, Gokū, and Gohan all reached Super Saiyajin 2.

Might this result in advanced forms of Super Saiyajin 4, creating bulked up and more powerful red-furred, black-haired states, or possibly a potential, completely separate 'Super Saiyajin 5'?

I personally would have liked to have seen something after or during GT's conclusion, an OVA, perhaps, that takes place after Gokū's departure but before the 100-year time skip, in which Vegeta, stepping up to succeed Gokū as Earth's champion defender, makes use of a rebuilt Bruits wave emitter to reach Super Saiyajin 4 once more, and, the form's power proving insufficient to take on some new villain, orders Buruma to flood his body with more Bruits waves, disregarding potential negative effects that his body might sustain as a result, in order to reach a level above or beyond Super Saiyajin 4.

Of course, GT didn't run long enough or reach a story point at which this might have happened, but I thought it might be fun/interesting to discuss what interested folks' opinions on the matter might be. What do you make of this exchange between Buruma and Vegeta, and potential forms beyond Super Saiyajin 4, had GT continued? Thoughts? Ideas?

For a few examples, here are MalikDBNA's "1st Ascended Super Saiyajin 4", "2nd Ascended Super Saiyajin 4", and "Super Saiyajin 5" forms.

Spoiler:

[ZazamPow]

Super Saiyan 5 already appeared in Dragon Ball AF where Goku trained in space for hundreds of years then had a baby with a powerful alien who was born naturally as a Super Saiyan 5.

[singsing]

Super Saiyan 5 already appeared in Dragon Ball AF where Goku trained in space for hundreds of years then had a baby with a powerful alien who was born naturally as a Super Saiyan 5.

99% sure the OP isn't talking about fanmade stuff.

[Lord Beerus]

Super Saiyan God is pretty much as an apex of Super Saiyan transformation as it can get. Nothing really surpass that, in regards to Super Saiyan transformations. And it should honestly stay that way, before things get way out of hand.

And besides, those Ascended Super Saiyajin 4 and Super Saiyajin 5 design look terrible.

[fadeddreams5]

Super Saiyan God is pretty much as an apex of Super Saiyan transformation as it can get. Nothing really surpass that, in regards to Super Saiyan transformations.

Never say never.

[TheGmGoken]

Super Saiyan God is pretty much as an apex of Super Saiyan transformation as it can get. Nothing really surpass that, in regards to Super Saiyan transformations. And it should honestly stay that way, before things get way out of hand.

And besides, those Ascended Super Saiyajin 4 and Super Saiyajin 5 design look terrible.

I like em .

I believe there is a chain of SSJ exclusive to SSJ4 since SSJ4 is called SSJ4 outta convient.

Ssj4 could be SSJ1. SSJ2 could be Ssj5 and so on.

[ZazamPow]

Super Saiyan 5 already appeared in Dragon Ball AF where Goku trained in space for hundreds of years then had a baby with a powerful alien who was born naturally as a Super Saiyan 5.

99% sure the OP isn't talking about fanmade stuff.

Missed the joke.

[Kaboom]

I think Super Saiyan 4, named as such for convenience or not, is better off remaining the (natural) apex of Saiyan transformations. It's already a combination of Super Saiyan and Oozaru, so doing something like "going Super Saiyan again" on top of it seems extraneous and counter-intuitive. And most of the crazy-looking SS5 and beyond forms made by fans are just tacky.

[Diotor]

Hasn't SSJ4 become redundant now we have SSJG forms?

[Cetra]

SSJ5 was not really mentioned in the original GT the same way it was mentioned in the translated version. With this original version I would not think too much about it. It would probably more of a thing if the American version was really what was said in the Japanese original. Apart from that I would just think of a Super Saiyajin 5 as another form of evolution which is not really a regular part of just the Super Saiyan chain.

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

I personally think Bulma was just theorizing about 'Super Saiyan 5' in the Heart of Prince episode. She knew how Goku achieved Super Saiyan 4.

[Hellspawn28]

I personally would have liked to have seen something after or during GT's conclusion, an OVA, perhaps, that takes place after Gokū's departure but before the 100-year time skip, in which Vegeta, stepping up to succeed Gokū as Earth's champion defender, makes use of a rebuilt Bruits wave emitter to reach Super Saiyajin 4 once more, and, the form's power proving insufficient to take on some new villain, orders Buruma to flood his body with more Bruits waves, disregarding potential negative effects that his body might sustain as a result, in order to reach a level above or beyond Super Saiyajin 4.

I think that would be cool but I doubt that we will see any conclusion to GT given how Toriyama is involved with the series more often now. I think a second form of Super Saiyan God is more likely then a SSj5. I can see SSj5 happening in Heroes but I rather SSj5 only be used for Goku.

I always believe in the idea that SSj4 is it's own Super Saiyan line up and not apart of the original Super Saiyan line up. For example it can be something like this:

Original Super Saiyan: SSj>SSj2>SSj3
Super Saiyan God: SSjG>SSjG2>SSjG3
Primal Super Saiyan: SSj4>SSj5>SSj6

[Black Hawk]

I think Super Saiyan 4, named as such for convenience or not, is better off remaining the (natural) apex of Saiyan transformations. It's already a combination of Super Saiyan and Oozaru, so doing something like "going Super Saiyan again" on top of it seems extraneous and counter-intuitive. And most of the crazy-looking SS5 and beyond forms made by fans are just tacky.

One thing I'd thought about earlier today was a particular scene in GT episode 58, "Commence Counterattack! Surpass Super Saiyajin 4", in which Gokū 'surpasses' Super Saiyajin 4 in a sense, though in a different manner from what I suggested in the original post. Gohan, Trunks, and Goten all give Gokū their energy in order to power up his Super Saiyajin 4 form so that he'd be able to fight evenly or surpass Yī Xīng Lóng. The Japanese dialogue is as follows.

Gohan: You made it. You're at full power!
Gokū: I don't mean to trouble you guys, but give me even more power!
Gohan: You can't mean it! That's crazy! Dad, if we give you even more power, your body won't be able to take it!
Gokū: That may be so, but my Times-Ten Kamehameha has no effect on him. I ain't going to be able to beat him without having power beyond this. At this point, I want to go for broke, to see if I can overcome my own limits!
Gohan: Understood. You've always been able to overcome them, haven't you, Dad?

And once Gokū's apparently taken as much energy as Gohan, Trunks, and Goten can give him...

Trunks: Amazing... He's taken his maximum power as a Super Saiyajin 4 and extended it even further!
Gokū: And so, Chō-full-power Saiyajin 4 is complete. (Note: While chō is often translated as "super", in this case it appears to mean something more along the lines or "ultra" or "ultimate".)

Perhaps this may be the very same effect that a greater exposure to massive quantities of Bruits waves would have on Vegeta, rather than an ascension to a form beyond Super Saiyajin 4; instead, it may result in a "chō-full-power Saiyajin 4".

Super Saiyan God is pretty much as an apex of Super Saiyan transformation as it can get. Nothing really surpass that, in regards to Super Saiyan transformations. And it should honestly stay that way, before things get way out of hand.

That is a very good point, one that I agree entirely with and thought of, though my original post was meant to focus more on the time period at which GT concluded, rather than taking everything we know today into consideration. My apologies; I should have specified that.

[Marco Polo]

Pretty sure Vegeta is talking out of his ass. He even says "or whatever you want!".

[Black Hawk]

Pretty sure Vegeta is talking out of his ass. He even says "or whatever you want!".

Very true. Still, it seems heavily implied that something exists beyond the standard Super Saiyajin 4, even if just the 'Chō-Full-Power Saiyajin 4' state Gokū used against Yī Xīng Lóng after receiving energy from Gohan, Trunks, and Goten, and it was simply a powered-up-beyond-maximum Super Saiyajin 4.

[Sandubadear]

In the Android saga Goku basically decides by himself that there should be more Super Saiyan levels, so I can't see why you couldn't ascend over Super Saiyan 4 (like Cho-Full-Power Saiyan 4) or even a entirely new Super Saiyan 5.

[Logan]

I'm gonna say that it stops at stage four. The Super Saiyan God form, while very likely the most powerful transformation (he is a god, after all), it can't actually be attained. I'm sure that Son was bummed out when he lost it.

[singsing]

I'm gonna say that it stops at stage four. The Super Saiyan God form, while very likely the most powerful transformation (he is a god, after all), it can't actually be attained. I'm sure that Son was bummed out when he lost it.

No he wasn't. He was bummed when he got it.

[Logan]

I stand corrected. I haven't seen it since the theater, so I'm going off of memory.

[singsing]

I stand corrected. I haven't seen it since the theater, so I'm going off of memory.

Ah I see. What happened basically was Goku saying he was upset he got SSG because it was a power he couldn't attain on his own and he needed help achieving the form. Then once he lost the form, Beerus asks Goku if he's happier, since he kept the power but no longer needs help. Goku says yes (which is weird, since he still technically never achieved that power without help... but whatever, BoG) but is still upset since it's not enough to beat Beerus.