"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Basaku]

have no understanding of the animation industry

Understanding of the animation industry is in no way necessary to form an opinion on the animation one sees in front of them. And certinately shouldn't be used as an argument to excuse Toei for industry issues the company had a major hand in creating.

[FortuneSSJ]

Just read they're probably going to announce a new One Piece movie next week. Wound salt, but I guess it's to be expected. They haven't had a movie since 2012, so it's been a weirdly long amount of time since they've had one.

It makes me so sad though, because while I like One Piece, I don't like it enough at the expense of seeing Super suffer.

Its not like they haven't nothing. In the last years, everytime they didn't have a movie, they had a special OVA with movie lenght, at least:

2013 - Episode of Merry (1h:46)
2014 - 3D2Y (1h:47)
2015 - Episode of Sabo (1h:45)

Who needs movies, when you have specials with this lenght and still better animation than the weekly episodes. I don't feel sorry for them at all.
And in 2012 not only they had Film Z but another 2 specials: Episode of Luffy (1h:42) and Episode of Nami (1h;46).

If Toei brought Super to treat it like shit, its better to stop now.
Its the first DB series after 18 years, the entire world awaits for something good and not something like episode 5.

[VegettoEX]

have no understanding of the animation industry

Understanding of the animation industry is in no way necessary to form an opinion on the animation one sees in front of them. And certinately shouldn't be used as an argument to excuse Toei for industry issues the company had a major hand in creating.

If I meant that as a single item, I wouldn't have written that entire explanation as one sentence. Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying and please don't cherry-pick segments of the greater whole of my point.

Obviously you're allowed to be displeased with the product and you're obviously allowed to state that opinion. However, when you don't know ANYTHING about how it's made and you aren't even paying for it, maybe don't try to start a petition to have Toei executed because Goku got drawed up dumb.

[Araki]

Understanding of the animation industry is in no way necessary to form an opinion on the animation one sees in front of them. And certinately shouldn't be used as an argument to excuse Toei for industry issues the company had a major hand in creating.

Yeah, but it goes wrong when it leads to statements like "Toei is being cheap", "The staff does not care about DB", when the incident had nothing to do with budget or lack of care. Poor planning, too, but ultimately everything came down to lack of time. When you have almost 20 key animators working on an episode and a few outsiders mess up, even the skilled and respected animation supervisor the episode had couldn't salvage everything. Understanding how things work doesn't hurt.
I don't know what you mean by Toei having a major hand in creating those industry issues. When there's too much demand and lack of personel, they're no more to blame than any other Japanese studio.

Its not like they haven't nothing. In the last years, everytime they didn't have a movie, they had a special OVA with movie lenght, at least:

2013 - Episode of Merry (1h:46)
2014 - 3D2Y (1h:47)
2015 - Episode of Sabo (1h:45)

And in 2012 not only they had Film Z but another special: Episode of Luffy (1h:42)

2012 had another one, Episode of Nami. Those five specials were not ova, but primetime movies.

[FortuneSSJ]

Edited. Forgot Episode of Nami.
Thanks!

[JulieYBM]

Episode #5 was clearly meant to be a bigger episode, it simply didn't pan out that way thanks to poor planning. Tate Naoki and Ootsuka Ken are some serious names to bring to an episode, after all.

[alakazam^]

That Bingo Dance needs to be filler, please Toriyama

I love the Bingo Dance. I want it to become even more over the top in Super.

It's the perfect opportunity to make him have two left feet

[bleed0range]

The more and more I think about it, the more I feel like it's a good thing that so many people are upset (whether rightfully so or not). TOEI and the industry sort of need this as a wake up call. They get away with subpar work and poor animation on a lot of series, but when did it become a huge meme? When they did it to the new Dragon Ball anime. I think it goes to show how special this particular IP is to the world at large (including Japan, of course) and how everyone sort of feels the series deserves better.

Say what you will about the animation in this episode. Yes, DBZ had it's bad days too... but at it's best it was way better then the best Super has to offer. It's not like the digital animation is to blame, they just need better art in general. They could easily create animation that is far better then the original series if they wanted to, they have the tools at their disposal. Maybe the uproar about this episode will have some kind of impact on TOEI and the industry if for no other reason then it's embarrassing to them.

[TheGmGoken]

Not to be that guy and you raised a lot of good points bleed0range. But Toei probably don't care TO A DEGREE about international fans. In a way like no matter how much we complain. Toei probably know that we'll watch regardless

[JulieYBM]

A lot of this argument is based on heat-of-the-moment statements that don't necessarily reflect what is in all likelihood already planned for the future of the episode: corrections for the home video release. The first TV airing is nothing more than a viewing of a rough copy of the episode that had to be aired in time to meet contractual obligations.

[FortuneSSJ]

Episode #5 was clearly meant to be a bigger episode, it simply didn't pan out that way thanks to poor planning. Tate Naoki and Ootsuka Ken are some serious names to bring to an episode, after all.

Just another reason why I don't lose my sleep thinking about the staff for each episode.
Seems like those 2 are great weapons and still most of the fight looks shit. Nothing is written on stone.

[shinmaru]

The more and more I think about it, the more I feel like it's a good thing that so many people are upset (whether rightfully so or not). TOEI and the industry sort of need this as a wake up call. They get away with subpar work and poor animation on a lot of series, but when did it become a huge meme? When they did it to the new Dragon Ball anime. I think it goes to show how special this particular IP is to the world at large (including Japan, of course) and how everyone sort of feels the series deserves better.

Say what you will about the animation in this episode. Yes, DBZ had it's bad days too... but at it's best it was way better then the best Super has to offer. It's not like the digital animation is to blame, they just need better art in general. They could easily create animation that is far better then the original series if they wanted to, they have the tools at their disposal. Maybe the uproar about this episode will have some kind of impact on TOEI and the industry if for no other reason then it's embarrassing to them.

This shows again that DragonBall is loved all over the world and haves a huge fanbase, so I think its normal for some fans to get upset or say crazy stupid shit. In the end its good for DB to get so much attention, good or bad. Maybe some animators will be afraid to get known for bad animation after this tsunami of internet criticism and do their extra best on a personal level.

[MaGyunia]

The more and more I think about it, the more I feel like it's a good thing that so many people are upset (whether rightfully so or not). TOEI and the industry sort of need this as a wake up call. They get away with subpar work and poor animation on a lot of series, but when did it become a huge meme? When they did it to the new Dragon Ball anime. I think it goes to show how special this particular IP is to the world at large (including Japan, of course) and how everyone sort of feels the series deserves better.

Say what you will about the animation in this episode. Yes, DBZ had it's bad days too... but at it's best it was way better then the best Super has to offer. It's not like the digital animation is to blame, they just need better art in general. They could easily create animation that is far better then the original series if they wanted to, they have the tools at their disposal. Maybe the uproar about this episode will have some kind of impact on TOEI and the industry if for no other reason then it's embarrassing to them.

This shows again that DragonBall is loved all over the world and haves a huge fanbase, so I think its normal for some fans to get upset or say crazy stupid shit. In the end its good for DB to get so much attention, good or bad. Maybe some animators will be afraid to get known for bad animation after this tsunami of internet criticism and do their extra best on a personal level.

Yeah, it would be partially a good thing if it weren't for the fact that actually most of the fans generating memes and petitions don't have the slightest f******* idea what they're talking or even complaining about. I'd say 90% of those who somehow complained and kept complaining about the episode's animation to the point of the event reaching national news (!) did so either for mocking purposes or due to some sort of misplaced anger or sense of belonging to the Dragonball fandom.

There's no right way to look at the entire thing other than what we wrote about in-depth in the last page of this thread. It was completely blown out of proportion, just the way so many things are, in an age where most people don't even know what it is to live without the internet and when the way information - good or bad - is conveyed in the most uncontrollable and disproportionate possible and imaginable way.

This won't change anything in Toei's plans for the immediate/medium-term future of the series, the media/internet uproar already went away as quickly as it came, it was just another event of growth of misinformation/overreaction in an exponential way. It just happened to hit the Dragonball franchise this time. Nobody's even talking about it anymore, as predicted, it reached the point of saturation.

[FortuneSSJ]

I wonder how they will handle the SSJG Ritual and if they will bother to mention Tarble at all.
If they are retelling the movies, to flesh out things better and make it easy for new fans/fans that didn't watch the movies to get into this, I don't see any point to mention a pointless character from an OVA that wasn't released overseas.

[Michie]

I have watched hundreds of anime the last 5 years, none of them had animation like DBS episode 5. One poorly drawn episode isn't that dangerous but more could really hurt the franchise. If DBS becomes the joke of the industry people will stop buying the video games and merchandise.

I'm still hoping that DBS production started earlier because of problems with Digimon 3. Hopefully the quality picks up when they hit the universe 6 arc.

[MaGyunia]

I wonder how they will handle the SSJG Ritual and if they will bother to mention Tarble at all.
If they are retelling the movies, to flesh out things better and make it easy for new fans/fans that didn't watch the movies to get into this, I don't see any point to mention a pointless character from an OVA that wasn't released overseas.

The way I've always viewed it, there are three possibilities: either they keep the ritual exactly the same (which requires one additional Saiya-jin, who could be Pan - with likely implications on her conception and age and even the last 3 episodes of DBZ - Tarble, who hasn't been totally discarded as a character with some potential since they actually (re)mentioned him in BoG, or - far-fetched scenarios - Bardock/King Vegeta/Raditz), or they change by decreasing the number of Saiya-jin needed by one, or they change the way the Super Saiya-jin God stage is achieved altogether, possibly turning it into something that is more akin to the other previous Super Saiya-jin stages, which build upon the last one and develop in an incremental basis, also making it possible for Goku (and Vegeta) to reach the stage through some sort of anger explosion + extremely advanced martial arts training without anyone else's help; Goku did mention in BoG he wasn't quite happy with the fact he couldnt' reach SSJG entirely by himself, although he did incorporate the stage's abilities later on (Vegeta, due to his obsessive pride, would probably have the same issue).

If I had to go with the most likely one, I'd go with the middle one: they keep the ritual, but actually Pan, or any other additional Saiya-jin, isn't in fact needed. The way they're keeping the story following BoG's accounts so closely leads one to believe they'll keep the ritual with only a few minor change or adaptation.

[soulnova]

I really really hope we get a flashback for Tarble. :3

[Mnich]

They should bring back Raditz for this ritual. I would love to see his face when he finds out that Goku is now a radish farmer, haha.

[Chuquita]

So judging by the episode titles and how close this is staying to BOG, if I copy-paste BOG's summary from the main site the episodes will possibly look like:

Spoiler:

6

Vegeta panics when he learns Beerus defeated Goku, and goes to warn everyone, but Beerus and Whis are already there. They question Vegeta, but he knows nothing about Super Saiyan God either. Beerus and Whis decide to stay and enjoy Bulma’s party, with Vegeta doing everything in his power to keep Beerus happy.

Meanwhile, Pilaf, Shu, and Mai sneak into the Capsule Corporation grounds in search of the Dragon Balls there. The trio actually managed to gather them all some time ago, but Pilaf wished for youth rather than world domination, and now all three of them are little kids. Trunks stumbles on them, followed by Goten. Trunks claims that Mai is his girlfriend, while Mai secretly steals the Four-Star Ball to hold for ransom. When the bingo tournament begins and the theft is discovered, the Pilaf trio holds Trunks hostage at gunpoint. Nobody is very concerned for Trunks’ safety, but nevertheless Gohan changes into his Great Saiyaman costume and challenges the Pilaf trio to shoot him. Their bullets have no effect on Gohan, but Videl is accidentally shot in the leg. When Dende heals her, he realizes she is… Videl cuts him off and swears him to secrecy. The Pilaf trio gives up, and everyone forgives them.

Beerus is annoyed that Super Saiyan God still has not shown up and is about to destroy the planet, but Vegeta gets him to calm down by desperately performing a song and dance about bingo.

7

While the tournament finally gets underway, Beerus goes to eat some custard pudding, but finds Majin Buu hoarding them all. Buu refuses to share and attacks Beerus, who finally snaps. A fight breaks out between Beerus and everyone else, but Beerus effortlessly outclasses them all. Meanwhile, Whis wanders off to a nearby sushi stand to eat.

An enraged Bulma slaps Beerus for ruining her party, and when Beerus slaps her back, Vegeta goes berserk and knocks Beerus around. Kame-Sen’nin says Vegeta seems to have surpassed Goku, but ultimately his attacks do nothing against Beerus.

8

Having won, Beerus is about to destroy the Earth again when Goku suddenly appears on the scene. Though Goku still has not solved the mystery of Super Saiyan God, he thinks he might be able to if given a little more time. Using the Dragon Balls, he asks Shenlong about the matter. Shenlong explains that Super Saiyan God was a being accidentally created by pure-hearted Saiyans long ago in order to oppose Planet Vegeta’s dominant evil Saiyans. It was produced when five pure-hearted Saiyans infused their light into another pure-hearted Saiyan. However, its power ran out before it could completely defeat the evil Saiyans, so Planet Vegeta once more became dominated by evil Saiyans, and Super Saiyan God was erased from legend.

Now that they know the method, Goku and the rest attempt to produce Super Saiyan God. After some arguing over who does and does not count as “pure-hearted”, Gohan, Goten, Vegeta, and Trunks all perform a ritual to donate their power to Goku. This causes Goku’s power to greatly increase, but he has actually done nothing more than gather up everyone else’s power and is not really Super Saiyan God. They realize that, per Shenlong’s instructions, they need a total of six pure-hearted Saiyans: five to donate power and one to receive it. While everyone despairs of finding another Saiyan, Videl reveals what Dende had learned earlier: she is pregnant with Gohan’s child. After briefly celebrating, they perform the ritual again with Videl, and this time Goku successfully becomes Super Saiyan God. Visually he is not much different: his hair is red, he has a thinner physique, and when he fights he emits a fiery red aura.

9

Finally confronted by this “formidable foe”, Beerus promises not to destroy the Earth if Goku wins.

The fight begins, and though the two seem evenly matched, Goku feels dissatisfied with Super Saiyan God because he could only reach this level of power with everyone’s help. Annoyed at Goku’s reservations, Beerus reveals that he still had not been fighting at full power. He gives Goku a tougher fight until Goku reverts back to being a regular Super Saiyan. Goku does not notice and continues to barely keep up with Beerus. Finally, Beerus fires a huge energy ball which Goku struggles to keep from destroying Earth. Beerus explains that while fighting as Super Saiyan God, Goku absorbed that level of power into his own body and has not greatly powered down even after returning to normal. He thinks Goku should finally feel satisfied, since he can fight Beerus with his own power, but Goku cannot push back Beerus’ energy ball.

10

As his friends and family cheer him on, Goku briefly becomes Super Saiyan God once more and repels the attack. Out of energy, he surrenders at Beerus’ request.

Beerus praises Goku as the second strongest person he has ever fought. It turns out that Whis is not just Beerus’ attendant, but his martial arts master as well. Furthermore, Beerus explains that he is the God of Destruction for the Seventh Universe. The world Goku knows is just the seventh out of twelve universes, and Beerus imagines there might be even more incredible people out there. Having won the fight, he starts to destroy Earth as promised, but his attack only destroys a small rock. He says he is out of stamina and will destroy the rest of Earth next time. He and Whis depart, leaving on friendly terms, while Goku and friends continue Bulma’s party.

Back at his palace, Beerus tells Whis that Goku was not a truly “formidable” opponent, but that both he and Vegeta might eventually grow strong enough to warrant the term. Whis hits Beerus to put him to sleep for another three years, then tells him to brush his teeth first. Back on Earth, Goku comments on how incredible Vegeta was after Bulma got slapped by Beerus. He had actually been there watching the whole time while everyone was being beaten by Beerus, but did not step in earlier because he wanted to investigate how Beerus fought. Indignant, Vegeta tells Bulma to slap Goku, and she happily agrees.

Sources:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/battle-of-gods/
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/08/07/sa ... -schedule/

[shinmaru]

I'm really looking forward watching Super today, still 2 hours to go tho