"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Bergamo]

Kale beat up Frieza and overpowered Goku and then her Ki was said to have spiked. She was clearly physically stronger than the Blue Tier characters.

[prince212]

Kale beat up Frieza and overpowered Goku and then her Ki was said to have spiked. She was clearly physically stronger than the Blue Tier characters.

The only one who put goku on the floor was freeza , kale didn’t connect any good one on goku , in fact goku connect a better one .
To say that kale was stronger just because goku comment that she keeps on getting stronger doesn’t have enough weight for your statement, it’s not clear at all
Also freeza after being beaten said he needs to take her seriously

[LightBing]

Kale beat up Frieza and overpowered Goku and then her Ki was said to have spiked. She was clearly physically stronger than the Blue Tier characters.

She surprised Freeza it was all in a single flurry. Just look at Freeza's expression, he's not worried. Now look at his expression when Goku intervenes that's when he gets mad. Freeza was never in danger.
Goku like Freeza is also a victim of the surprise factor and it's just a single guard break, she didn't even touch Goku.

To add we have Beerus and Kaioshin in the audience more worried about the in-fighting than Kale.

The following chapter further supports this, she kicks away Vegeta and Toppo in yet another surprise attack. But when Vegeta checks the situation she's not even worth his time.

Now I can't say how strong she his due to her gimmick but she's not stronger than Goku or Freeza.

[Bergamo]

Kale beat up Frieza and overpowered Goku and then her Ki was said to have spiked. She was clearly physically stronger than the Blue Tier characters.

The only one who put goku on the floor was freeza , kale didn’t connect any good one on goku , in fact goku connect a better one .
To say that kale was stronger just because goku comment that she keeps on getting stronger doesn’t have enough weight for your statement, it’s not clear at all
Also freeza after being beaten said he needs to take her seriously

Frieza getting serious doesn't mean he was holding back. It could just mean he needs to use better technique as Kale was lacking in fighting skill.

Vados also says that...
Kale's Strength + Caulifla's Skill > Goku/Frieza/etc.
This means that...
Kale's Strength > Goku's Strength

[prince212]

Vados also says that...
Kale's Strength + Caulifla's Skill > Goku/Frieza/etc.
This means that...
Kale's Strength > Goku's Strength

So now a fusion takes the strength of one and the brains of the other ? Doesn’t have sense .
Just tell me what page or panel kale overpowered goku , I can’t see it

[Bergamo]

Vados also says that...
Kale's Strength + Caulifla's Skill > Goku/Frieza/etc.
This means that...
Kale's Strength > Goku's Strength

So now a fusion takes the strength of one and the brains of the other ? Doesn’t have sense .
Just tell me what page or panel kale overpowered goku , I can’t see it

What about when Vegeta and Toppo watched Kale unleash a shockwave and then watched Kale run towards them, and they still got beat. Was that surprise.

Either Kale caught Vegeta, Toppo, Goku, and Frieza(maybe Anilaza) off guard, or she's above Blue Tier.

[LightBing]

Vados is just pointing out this advantage which makes this fusion better than usual. The same way it's was pointed out the "rival boost" of Goku and Vegeta. You're just ignoring how fusions work...

What about when Vegeta and Toppo watched Kale unleash a shockwave and then watched Kale run towards them, and they still got beat. Was that surprise.

Yes, they were surprised you even have the shook signal in the close up of their faces. They only had time to block, look at the chapter again.

[prince212]

Vados also says that...
Kale's Strength + Caulifla's Skill > Goku/Frieza/etc.
This means that...
Kale's Strength > Goku's Strength

So now a fusion takes the strength of one and the brains of the other ? Doesn’t have sense .
Just tell me what page or panel kale overpowered goku , I can’t see it

What about when Vegeta and Toppo watched Kale unleash a shockwave and then watched Kale run towards them, and they still got beat. Was that surprise.

Either Kale caught Vegeta, Toppo, Goku, and Frieza(maybe Anilaza) off guard, or she's above Blue Tier.

Vegeta and toppo were fighting and that was a surprise, it’s just like when Jiren was about to ring out goku and hit came and kicked Jiren
Read this carefully

[Bergamo]

When Kale beats up 4(potentially 5) Blue Tier characters, I assume she's Blue tier. She also got stronger at least twice since Frieza fought her, so even if he could beat her at one point, we have no reason to believe his assessment is correct.

[LightBing]

When Kale beats up 4(potentially 5) Blue Tier characters, I assume she's Blue tier. She also got stronger at least twice since Frieza fought her, so even if he could beat her at one point, we have no reason to believe his assessment is correct.

She didn't even get a direct hit on Goku, Vegeta and Toppo, that's not beating anyone. Anyway agree to disagree, the arguments are all on the table more and we'll start repeating ourselves.

[Aizamasu]

I think some people are forgetting that Vegeta said that Kale's power was dropping so she wasn't blue tier when the Pride troopers were beating her/when she fused. So Kefla isn't a fusion of a SSJ1 tier and a blue tier. I think/hope that Gohan, who has been training since the Black arc or maybe even before, has a chance to at least fight against her a little while.

[JazzMazz]

This was a bit of art released from the Jump Victory Carnival.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Wonder if this was by Toyo, I would say this definitely looks like him.

Wonder if this means Toyo will include Omen in the manga?

EDIT: Discovered that the above was actually a non-inverted colured version of this original.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Still think its worth asking, because the non-inverted colours also have the correct colouring for things like Jirens clothing.

[TKA]

[
Kale is stronger than SSB Goku. Not only is Kale stronger than Gohan individually, but she is now fused.

Nope. Judging exclusively off what happened in the manga, she was throwing "Golden" Frieza around but it's made clear that only happened because she caught him offguard. Then Goku interrupted her fight with him, turned Blue and blocked her punch, then kicked her away. He then proceeded to block and dodge her attacks effortlessly until Frieza intervened.

She then powered up and ran through Vegeta and Toppo, but since they were fighting each other, they got caught offguard. Her hit to Vegeta didn't even scratch him, he bounced back into the fight and didn't even seem to care. And this is her at peak power. Then, near the end of the chapter, we're told her power is decreasing.

What is to be inferred here is that when she was fresh, she was strong enough that Goku decided to go Blue to safely stop her, and her attack did no damage to Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta. What this means is at full power she's in a nebulous region of "above Super Saiyan, but below Super Saiyan Blue". Her power could be anywhere from SS2 to SSG-level.

However, all of that is moot since it was noted that Caulifla fused with her when she was already severely weakened. It is by no means a stretch for Ultimate Gohan, who was stronger than a fusion of 2 saiyans stronger than Caulifla to also be stronger than Kafla.

[Saiga]

Ultimate Gohan was vaguely in the God ballpark in the animated version anyway (and I stress vaguely, because anime version). If this is the opponent Gohan double rings-out with I don't see a problem with Kafla being stronger than Blue but still losing.

[Bergamo]

[
Kale is stronger than SSB Goku. Not only is Kale stronger than Gohan individually, but she is now fused.

Nope. Judging exclusively off what happened in the manga, she was throwing "Golden" Frieza around but it's made clear that only happened because she caught him offguard. Then Goku interrupted her fight with him, turned Blue and blocked her punch, then kicked her away. He then proceeded to block and dodge her attacks effortlessly until Frieza intervened.

She then powered up and ran through Vegeta and Toppo, but since they were fighting each other, they got caught offguard. Her hit to Vegeta didn't even scratch him, he bounced back into the fight and didn't even seem to care. And this is her at peak power. Then, near the end of the chapter, we're told her power is decreasing.

What is to be inferred here is that when she was fresh, she was strong enough that Goku decided to go Blue to safely stop her, and her attack did no damage to Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta. What this means is at full power she's in a nebulous region of "above Super Saiyan, but below Super Saiyan Blue". Her power could be anywhere from SS2 to SSG-level.

However, all of that is moot since it was noted that Caulifla fused with her when she was already severely weakened. It is by no means a stretch for Ultimate Gohan, who was stronger than a fusion of 2 saiyans stronger than Caulifla to also be stronger than Kafla.

Why would Vados say that Kefla is possibly the strongest fighter in the tournament if she is weaker than Hit, a fighter from her own universe. SS3 Tier fighters can be defeated by God Tier fighters with ease, yet she defeated Dyspo and Kaserol with little effort.

[1345521]

[
Kale is stronger than SSB Goku. Not only is Kale stronger than Gohan individually, but she is now fused.

Nope. Judging exclusively off what happened in the manga, she was throwing "Golden" Frieza around but it's made clear that only happened because she caught him offguard. Then Goku interrupted her fight with him, turned Blue and blocked her punch, then kicked her away. He then proceeded to block and dodge her attacks effortlessly until Frieza intervened.

She then powered up and ran through Vegeta and Toppo, but since they were fighting each other, they got caught offguard. Her hit to Vegeta didn't even scratch him, he bounced back into the fight and didn't even seem to care. And this is her at peak power. Then, near the end of the chapter, we're told her power is decreasing.

What is to be inferred here is that when she was fresh, she was strong enough that Goku decided to go Blue to safely stop her, and her attack did no damage to Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta. What this means is at full power she's in a nebulous region of "above Super Saiyan, but below Super Saiyan Blue". Her power could be anywhere from SS2 to SSG-level.

However, all of that is moot since it was noted that Caulifla fused with her when she was already severely weakened. It is by no means a stretch for Ultimate Gohan, who was stronger than a fusion of 2 saiyans stronger than Caulifla to also be stronger than Kafla.

Yes, this seems correct. Though I'd argue kale is at ssj god level-imperfect ssj blue level. Her being ssj2 level is HEAVY downplay. Though of the pride troopers could take her, I'm sure a ssj2 level fighter could take on kale.
The reason Frieza got ragged dolled is because he got surprised attack with massive ki punches.
And the. Goku didn't take her that seriously got surprised when she broke out of his half hearted block attempts.

Yeah, even vegeta didn't have those kinda "deer caught in headlights" type eyes when kale powered up. It seemed like he was thinking "who is this moron powering up to make himself look cool", it was more so perplexing what was happening rather then her being way stronger then everyone. Though in terms of power, kale isn't. Joke. If her ki explosion can make gods of destruction notice, she's not a joke. But I doubt her strndgth is on the level of goku, toppo or Vegeta. Even Frieza. She's probably on the level though.

[1345521]

[
Kale is stronger than SSB Goku. Not only is Kale stronger than Gohan individually, but she is now fused.

Nope. Judging exclusively off what happened in the manga, she was throwing "Golden" Frieza around but it's made clear that only happened because she caught him offguard. Then Goku interrupted her fight with him, turned Blue and blocked her punch, then kicked her away. He then proceeded to block and dodge her attacks effortlessly until Frieza intervened.

She then powered up and ran through Vegeta and Toppo, but since they were fighting each other, they got caught offguard. Her hit to Vegeta didn't even scratch him, he bounced back into the fight and didn't even seem to care. And this is her at peak power. Then, near the end of the chapter, we're told her power is decreasing.

What is to be inferred here is that when she was fresh, she was strong enough that Goku decided to go Blue to safely stop her, and her attack did no damage to Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta. What this means is at full power she's in a nebulous region of "above Super Saiyan, but below Super Saiyan Blue". Her power could be anywhere from SS2 to SSG-level.

However, all of that is moot since it was noted that Caulifla fused with her when she was already severely weakened. It is by no means a stretch for Ultimate Gohan, who was stronger than a fusion of 2 saiyans stronger than Caulifla to also be stronger than Kafla.

Why would Vados say that Kefla is possibly the strongest fighter in the tournament if she is weaker than Hit, a fighter from her own universe. SS3 Tier fighters can be defeated by God Tier fighters with ease, yet she defeated Dyspo and Kaserol with little effort.

Well kahsersal isn't even close to ssj one level fighters and dyspo probably is, but I do agree and say kale is ssj2 or ssj3 level is extreme downplay. But to say she's stronger then mssj blue, bro that would have been stated and you wouldn't have so much counter evidence. When it comes to power scailing, Toyo uslally makes it obvious. It was never stated or even inferred by any fighters kale is stronger then them. So you can't say. Though you do make an point. Of kale only be imperfect blue level, so like rose level. And she fused with ssj caulifa (who is about on par with Kai zamsu) that'll only make her mssj blue tier and kefla is stronger then that... Yeah you know what... You may be right.

[Bergamo]

Gohan being stronger than Kefla only works if...

1. Vados is an idiot. I mean legitimately unintelligent. How could she wrongly assess that a SS3 Tier fighter is stronger than Hit?

2. Dyspo is super weak. Dyspo is stated to be in the top 3 pride troopers, but I guess he's way weaker than Gohan.

3. A super saiyan tier fighter got a lucky hit on 4 different Blue tier fighters.

4. Kale got close to no boost from her Super Saiyan power up. She's already stronger than most of the Super Saiyan fighters in her base, so she must have gotten a negligible power up when she transformed.

Gallery: The faces of fighters thousands of times stronger than Kale.

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

[MoscoSama]

Ultra Instinct Sign should show up soon

[Marlowe89]

Ultimate Gohan was vaguely in the God ballpark in the animated version anyway (and I stress vaguely, because anime version). If this is the opponent Gohan double rings-out with I don't see a problem with Kafla being stronger than Blue but still losing.

This. Kale/Kefla may or may not be stronger than Blue, and I'm inclined to say that she is at peak strength, but it doesn't actually matter -- Gohan got Goku to resort to Kaioken against him and was fighting alongside (as well as against) characters in the same tier in the anime. He doesn't perform nearly as well against Toppo later on, but you can chalk that up to physical exhaustion or the anime just being inconsistent as usual.