"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[sangofe]

At least, they seemingly told the truth about Super Hero also being supervised by Sasuke Toriyama, so maybe he had some succession planned out.

For sure I will read and watch any Dragon Ball material they will release, despite it not being under Toriyama, as long as the production quality is good. But it will never be the same. Hopefully, at least, Sasuke will be there to avoid that they destroy what Dragon Ball is. And I trust Toyotaro to respect the story and world as much as possible.

But, the real story is over. Unless Toriyama left some notes on how he wanted to close Super, it also is. I guess we will never know how and if Goku ever surpassed Beerus or what would have been of Freeza and Broly, and all the other new characters and mysteries he came up with.

It's not been to my knowledge stated that Sasuke Toriyama had creative involvement.

What we'll most probably never get is the same mix of light hearted comedy mixed with serious action and new amazing characters like Beerus, Whiz, Champa, Zen`o. What I also fear is forever lost the true characterization of the characters. Especially Goku.

[TKA]

In light of Akira Toriyama's untimely passing, my continued readership of Super, at this point, is going one of two ways:

1. If Toriyama was actively working with Toyotaro on a future story arc for the past couple of years and much of the plot outline is already finished, it's certainly posthumous material worth checking out. I'll continue to read the manga until that's no longer the case.

2. If it's officially mentioned that the above didn't happen, or if nothing is clarified at all (which, let's be honest, basically means the same thing), then this month's chapter will be the last chapter I read for quite some time – if not indefinitely. I have no interest in continuing to consume a work without his input, even if that input was limited; a Dragon Ball without Toriyama isn't really Dragon Ball at all.

In the meantime:

Gonna watch the Sand Land film when it releases in the west in his honor, maybe check out Daima when/if that comes out, and ugly cry my face off while doing it. Beyond that, I'm done with all future DB projects outside of maybe the video games. If the manga from here on out is all Toyotaro, I might someday return to it retrospectively after Shueisha wraps up the entire Super series, which I hope they do sooner rather than later, but that's about the extent of it.

But above all, I'm just heartbroken. I was devastated last night when I heard the announcement and I'm equally devastated today. RIP to a legend.

Honestly, same.

I swore off Star Wars when George Lucas sold it. People said I was silly for that 10 years ago. 10 years later and everyone is sick of Star Wars and mostly hate the stuff that's been added since 2015. I'd say I feel vindicated, but I'd be lying since I just don't care on any level.

I will return to how I was before Battle of Gods. Just casually observing the franchise from afar. I like Toyotaro well enough, but the Super manga has been pretty crap since the Tournament of Power ended YEARS ago, and he is without question the best writer this franchise has seen outside of Toriyama... so imagine the absolute depths the anime will be when it returns, or the video games. Just the absolute scum at the bottom of the barrel.

Maybe it's the melancholy talking, but I just can't enjoy Dragonball right now. Not even the old stuff. Every time I look at Vegeta or Goku, all that pops into my head is "You'll never get another story with them from the source." There are also stories left untold, like what will happen to Broly.

My thoughts are scattered and I am emotionally overwhelmed.

[Dragmobot12]

After reading the Dark Demon Realm Arc from SDBH manga, I believe that Yoshitaka Nagayama would be a suitable candidate to write for the Dragon Ball Super manga.
I do not understand why some people have issues with him, but to me, his stories are solid and impressive. Although it may be true that the artist's work is subpar and that he in fact traces certain panels from the original manga, Toyotaro is available for that purpose.
Although Nagayama's creative freedom may be limited when it comes to SDBH, such as keeping it focused on fan service and excluding complex storytelling, we all know that the main purpose of SDBH is to promote new characters and various transformations for the game. As for the original timeline, DBS, I believe that collaboration could lead to something truly worth reading.
With Yoshitaka on board, we can avoid unnecessary writing such as unoriginal villains and Goku giving the villain a Senzu bean, which was a major issue for everyone in the Moro Arc.
It is worth noting that Toyotaro wrote the Moro Arc, which unfortunately did not live up to its potential. The third act was underwhelming, and the main villain was wasted.

[TKA]

I understand that Dragonball Heroes has its fans. Surely, since it's been around for well over a decade.

But I look at that cover and this is not Dragonball, man. This is Dragonball AF. We already have the writer of a Dragonball AF.

[Alkiser]

After reading the Dark Demon Realm Arc from SDBH manga, I believe that Yoshitaka Nagayama would be a suitable candidate to write for the Dragon Ball Super manga.
I do not understand why some people have issues with him, but to me, his stories are solid and impressive. Although it may be true that the artist's work is subpar and that he in fact traces certain panels from the original manga, Toyotaro is available for that purpose.
Although Nagayama's creative freedom may be limited when it comes to SDBH, such as keeping it focused on fan service and excluding complex storytelling, we all know that the main purpose of SDBH is to promote new characters and various transformations for the game. As for the original timeline, DBS, I believe that collaboration could lead to something truly worth reading.
With Yoshitaka on board, we can avoid unnecessary writing such as unoriginal villains and Goku giving the villain a Senzu bean, which was a major issue for everyone in the Moro Arc.
It is worth noting that Toyotaro wrote the Moro Arc, which unfortunately did not live up to its potential. The third act was underwhelming, and the main villain was wasted.

This manga unlike Toyotaro's manga does not feel the spirit of Dragon Ball and even less SDBH is devoid of Toriyama's spirit. It is an empty fanservice without a soul.

[sangofe]

After reading the Dark Demon Realm Arc from SDBH manga, I believe that Yoshitaka Nagayama would be a suitable candidate to write for the Dragon Ball Super manga.
I do not understand why some people have issues with him, but to me, his stories are solid and impressive. Although it may be true that the artist's work is subpar and that he in fact traces certain panels from the original manga, Toyotaro is available for that purpose.
Although Nagayama's creative freedom may be limited when it comes to SDBH, such as keeping it focused on fan service and excluding complex storytelling, we all know that the main purpose of SDBH is to promote new characters and various transformations for the game. As for the original timeline, DBS, I believe that collaboration could lead to something truly worth reading.
With Yoshitaka on board, we can avoid unnecessary writing such as unoriginal villains and Goku giving the villain a Senzu bean, which was a major issue for everyone in the Moro Arc.
It is worth noting that Toyotaro wrote the Moro Arc, which unfortunately did not live up to its potential. The third act was underwhelming, and the main villain was wasted.

This manga unlike Toyotaro's manga does not feel the spirit of Dragon Ball and even less SDBH is devoid of Toriyama's spirit. It is an empty fanservice without a soul.

I understand that Dragonball Heroes has its fans. Surely, since it's been around for well over a decade.

But I look at that cover and this is not Dragonball, man. This is Dragonball AF. We already have the writer of a Dragonball AF.

"Never judge a book by its cover "might be valid as a reply here. But I haven't read Super Dragon Ball Heroes. I would like to, but it's not been released in english or french speaking countries as far as I know.

To you who has read it: apart from the characters not being the same, how is the different? And are the familiar characters different too?

[Cipher]

In light of Akira Toriyama's untimely passing, my continued readership of Super, at this point, is going one of two ways:

1. If Toriyama was actively working with Toyotaro on a future story arc for the past couple of years and much of the plot outline is already finished, it's certainly posthumous material worth checking out. I'll continue to read the manga until that's no longer the case.

2. If it's officially mentioned that the above didn't happen, or if nothing is clarified at all (which, let's be honest, basically means the same thing), then this month's chapter will be the last chapter I read for quite some time – if not indefinitely. I have no interest in continuing to consume a work without his input, even if that input was limited; a Dragon Ball without Toriyama isn't really Dragon Ball at all.

In the meantime:

Gonna watch the Sand Land film when it releases in the west in his honor, maybe check out Daima when/if that comes out, and ugly cry my face off while doing it. Beyond that, I'm done with all future DB projects outside of maybe the video games. If the manga from here on out is all Toyotaro, I might someday return to it retrospectively after Shueisha wraps up the entire Super series, which I hope they do sooner rather than later, but that's about the extent of it.

But above all, I'm just heartbroken. I was devastated last night when I heard the announcement and I'm equally devastated today. RIP to a legend.

A lot to process, but as far as the unfinished collaborate works he left...

I'm going to finish the Super manga, even if it continues into non-Toriyama content, because it's been Toyotaro's series in execution from the start, and I think he's earned that finish with it on its own terms. There'll certainly be a divide between where Toriyama was actively contributing and afterward though.

Daima I'm actually more lukewarm about, but Toriyama seems to have been invested in and heavily involved in it. Always a little less excited with animated projects when he isn't scripting them though.

And then new DB's done for me even if the various stakeholders keep going with it. Whatever Toriyama's vision for new DB was, to the extent that he had one, will remain an unfinished work.

[Alkiser]

In light of Akira Toriyama's untimely passing, my continued readership of Super, at this point, is going one of two ways:

1. If Toriyama was actively working with Toyotaro on a future story arc for the past couple of years and much of the plot outline is already finished, it's certainly posthumous material worth checking out. I'll continue to read the manga until that's no longer the case.

2. If it's officially mentioned that the above didn't happen, or if nothing is clarified at all (which, let's be honest, basically means the same thing), then this month's chapter will be the last chapter I read for quite some time – if not indefinitely. I have no interest in continuing to consume a work without his input, even if that input was limited; a Dragon Ball without Toriyama isn't really Dragon Ball at all.

In the meantime:

Gonna watch the Sand Land film when it releases in the west in his honor, maybe check out Daima when/if that comes out, and ugly cry my face off while doing it. Beyond that, I'm done with all future DB projects outside of maybe the video games. If the manga from here on out is all Toyotaro, I might someday return to it retrospectively after Shueisha wraps up the entire Super series, which I hope they do sooner rather than later, but that's about the extent of it.

But above all, I'm just heartbroken. I was devastated last night when I heard the announcement and I'm equally devastated today. RIP to a legend.

A lot to process, but as far as the unfinished collaborate works he left...

I'm going to finish the Super manga, even if it continues into non-Toriyama content, because it's been Toyotaro's series in execution from the start, and I think he's earned that finish with it on its own terms. There'll certainly be a divide between where Toriyama was actively contributing and afterward though.

Daima I'm actually more lukewarm about, but Toriyama seems to have been invested in and heavily involved in it. Always a little less excited with animated projects when he isn't scripting them though.

And then new DB's done for me even if the various stakeholders keep going with it. Whatever Toriyama's vision for new DB was, to the extent that he had one, will remain an unfinished work.

It is still worth mentioning the movie theater you talked about 2 years ago when you translated the V-Jump article.

https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/15 ... 59Zsw&s=19

[Cipher]

It is still worth mentioning the movie theater you talked about 2 years ago when you translated the V-Jump article.

https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/15 ... 59Zsw&s=19

It depends on how far it got though. I’m sure if there’s a way to market it as a Toriyama idea or even partial script, they will.

[TKA]

It depends on how far it got though. I’m sure if there’s a way to market it as a Toriyama idea or even partial script, they will.

Because the gears of capitalism need to keep turning, I expect a lot of dragonball material over the next 5 years to have phrases such as "From the mind of Toriyama" or some such phrase slapped on it. They'll feature Toyotaro (publicly recognized successor) and Sasuke Toriyama (son) as "overseers" as well to lend legitimacy to whatever they put that label on too, where appropriate.

Like it or not, I expect the franchise to now be like LotR, with Toriyama being the Tolkien.

[shadd21]

Has Sasuke Toriyama ever had any involvement with the franchise before?

[Alkiser]

Has Sasuke Toriyama ever had any involvement with the franchise before?

According to a Toei representative, Sasuke helped with the Super Hero film only it is not known in what role.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I think it's on-point to say that being able to tout Toriyama's continued involvement in an ongoing story is attractive and potentially lucrative, to those masterminding the franchise following his tragic death. But I think it's also fair to say that creatives and executives alike will want to try to capture something of Toriyama's "spirit" simply for its own sake and for the sake of making something more satisfyingly "of a piece" with his world. I think these considerations are likely to be seen as mutually reinforcing.

To that end, I think a continuing story will likely be drawn more and more towards the following, the longer it goes on:

• A more conservative outlook. With Toriyama's imprimatur for pitches, characters, designs and ideas no longer forthcoming, I imagine there will be a greater reluctance to bring completely new, original content to the narrative, and Super is likely to continue to revisit and remix content from Dragon Ball to construct the bulk of the stories it will tell going forward - only, probably moreso than hitherto. Toyotarou in particular has made clear his discomfort around making significant changes to the background of Dragon World without "permission" (e.g., needing Toriyama to suggest making new Dragon Balls for the Granolah arc), or even pronouncing definitively on relatively small details. Even Super Hero, as a fully Toriyama-penned work, traded heavily on established Dragon Ball tropes and moments in telling its own story (e.g. Red Ribbon and the various Cell arc-derived beats in its plot).
• "Mining" Toriyama's published oeuvre. The main thing a continuing franchise will hurt for (more than a gen'an or other plot points, though they bear his "stamp" in an important way also), is ongoing design input from Toriyama (e.g., in the Granolah arc, Toyotarou had to take multiple passes at the Heeters before Toriyama approved the designs, and he had to let Toriyama do the Suga-jin). So designs coming from other, minor Toriyama works or promotional material (even video games where Toriyama has given design input) could gain new significance for use in Super, because all that tricky feedback-reliant work can be bypassed immediately and the story can use elements and material that organically feels more like it belongs in Dragon World, than trying to get there from scratch. Neko Majin is such low-hanging fruit from this perspective that I would be surprised if it didn't see use: several authentic Toriyama character designs in an already Dragon Ball-adjacent narrative where the rough shape of a story is almost begging to get filled out (to wit, Goku becoming Neko Majin Z's master). Even if Super tries to do something more original than this in its plot work, I wouldn't be surprised if it did extensive design homages or light reworking of existing character designs from other Toriyama-penned properties simply to keep the aesthetics "right".
• Expansion/Supplementation of Incomplete ideas. Victory Uchida commented that, while the Moro arc was still undergoing serialisation (around the publication of Chapter 65) 10 basic story arc ideas were getting pitched and discussed between himself, Toyotarou, and Toriyama, with a view to taking 3 possibilities forward. While Granolah became the chosen story idea in the end, I imagine that in the wake of Toriyama's death, some re-examination and further development of ideas not taken forward will occur, perhaps with those that were the subject of more in-depth discussion being revisited and worked over to see whether they can be fleshed out into full stories. No doubt any other outline ideas or incomplete Toriyama-penned storylines and notes will get pored over and evaluated to see whether they can be expanded/patched up with other content (particularly content related to existing work, as noted above) to become a serviceable enough complete storyline or two - TKA's comparison with Tolkien's literary estate seems apt; I'd be surprised if we didn't get a posthumous story by this means.

[Mr Baggins]

To you who has read it: apart from the characters not being the same, how is the different? And are the familiar characters different too?

The SDBH manga is a slightly lengthier iteration of the web anime, so it's still all the same empty mindless dreck with none of the charm or characterization that usually came with the creator's involvement. Remember how the Granolah arc became a series of pointless fights in lieu of storytelling? This is that, but dialed to 11. Also, the artwork is horrendous.

My advice is to stick to mainline Dragon Ball if you're in this franchise for anything that resembles its key qualities. Toyotaro is no Toriyama, but he's better than everyone else. You're not gonna get the good stuff from what's essentially a video game advertisement.

[Gt91]

SUPER HERO Arc ends this month

https://twitter.com/SupaChronicles/stat ... 4183189869

[VegettoEX]

SUPER HERO Arc ends this month

https://twitter.com/SupaChronicles/stat ... 4183189869

What the official website says is that this is the "climax" (literally using the English word "climax" in katakana as クライマックス). The machine/automated/lightly-touched-but-not-actually-a-translation translation for the English side of the website says, "The SUPER HERO arc reaches its dramatic climax here in this chapter, so don't miss it!"

Does this mean the "end" of the arc in chapter 103? Well, it doesn't actually say that.

For an interesting comparison's sake, in October 2020, Uchida said the current arc (Moro) was at its climax. It went for three more chapters after that before the next arc truly began in chapter 68.

[Miracles]

SUPER HERO Arc ends this month

https://twitter.com/SupaChronicles/stat ... 4183189869

What the official website says is that this is the "climax" (literally using the English word "climax" in katakana as クライマックス). The machine/automated/lightly-touched-but-not-actually-a-translation translation for the English side of the website says, "The SUPER HERO arc reaches its dramatic climax here in this chapter, so don't miss it!"

Does this mean the "end" of the arc in chapter 103? Well, it doesn't actually say that.

For an interesting comparison's sake, in October 2020, Uchida said the current arc (Moro) was at its climax. It went for three more chapters after that before the next arc truly began in chapter 68.

Thank you for that.

[Gt91]

Spoilers are out and apparently it looks like the story will end with this chapter, in a similar way to the old story arcs.
We'll see soon if it's true or not.
I believe the time is ripe to go further.

[sangofe]

Spoilers are out and apparently it looks like the story will end with this chapter, in a similar way to the old story arcs.
We'll see soon if it's true or not.
I believe the time is ripe to go further.

Or to end the manga?

[Trouser]

It's perfect time to end the Super's manga.

If they want to milk the franchise more, they can start a new series so people would know when Toriyama's story ended.