"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Namz]

Can we expect spoilers this weekend? Already hyped

[Bullza]

Volume 4 is less than 3 weeks away. We seen the cover yet?

[Miracles]

So you think Goku would try to "Hakai" Jiren...?

No. I'm saying Goku didn't need a new form to master a tech in "Hakai." Something a god of destruction can use.
So I do not believe a new form is necessary for "Ultra instinct," triggered by the spirit bomb in the manga.
Since it is a skill separate from the new form.

[dragon boss z]

Yes, exactly that. I don't think its any coincidence that the "thinking without moving" technique should be able to counter the "time skip" technique no matter how short the length of time is.
I feel like Hit was also part of the training for Goku to achieve this technique and ironically still working on perfecting that technique would explain how Goku was able to revive himself after Hit assassinates him. All of this ties so well together that it all can't be coincidence.

As for taking out Beerus and Champa, I don't see why not. If Roshi were fast, skilled, and accurate enough I don't see why he couldn't take out Beerus or Champa that way too. It's about physiology, precision, and timing not power in this case. It's like asking if Goku is too powerful to drown.

It's called No-Limit Fallacy. That is like saying Beerus can Haki anyone.

Ok, why can't he? We know he can't in the manga, but the anime seems to imply he could.

Frieza overcame hakai energy, which means if you are strong enough you can overcome it.

[micah007]

Can we expect spoilers this weekend? Already hyped

More like next Tuesday at the earliest (10/17/17).

[Miracles]

Frieza overcame hakai energy, which means if you are strong enough you can overcome it.

You're kidding right?
Freeza had a heart attack overcoming just a little energy from Sidra.

[Noah]

Freeza had a heart attack overcoming just a little energy from Sidra.

Wasn't he faking?

[Miracles]

Freeza had a heart attack overcoming just a little energy from Sidra.

Wasn't he faking?

Faking the damage as if it was eradicating him.
Not that he had to struggle to contain it.

[Hellspawn28]

Yes, exactly that. I don't think its any coincidence that the "thinking without moving" technique should be able to counter the "time skip" technique no matter how short the length of time is.
I feel like Hit was also part of the training for Goku to achieve this technique and ironically still working on perfecting that technique would explain how Goku was able to revive himself after Hit assassinates him. All of this ties so well together that it all can't be coincidence.

As for taking out Beerus and Champa, I don't see why not. If Roshi were fast, skilled, and accurate enough I don't see why he couldn't take out Beerus or Champa that way too. It's about physiology, precision, and timing not power in this case. It's like asking if Goku is too powerful to drown.

It's called No-Limit Fallacy. That is like saying Beerus can Haki anyone.

Ok, why can't he? We know he can't in the manga, but the anime seems to imply he could.

It would make sense if he can only Haki someone that is weaker than him. If he can Haki anyone, he would be too powerful and would make his character pointless.

[dragon boss z]

Frieza overcame hakai energy, which means if you are strong enough you can overcome it.

You're kidding right?
Freeza had a heart attack overcoming just a little energy from Sidra.

You how logic works right? If Frieza can overcome just a tiny portion of hakai energy, even if it took all of his power and it almost killed him, that still means it can be done, which is what I was saying. So saying Beerus could hakai lets say the Grand Priest, yes that is a no limit fallacy. Obviously Beerus could hakai Frieza.

[Miracles]

You how logic works right? If Frieza can overcome just a tiny portion of hakai energy, even if it took all of his power and it almost killed him, that still means it can be done, which is what I was saying. So saying Beerus could hakai lets say the Grand Priest, yes that is a no limit fallacy. Obviously Beerus could hakai Frieza.

You are correct.

[Pannaliciour]

Just read the manga again. Saw something very interesting: when Grand Priest said you have to give everything or you will get erased. Beerus then said "AND THERE IT IS....THE TRUE TERROR OF THE KING OF ALL.

Is the manga also foreshadowing that the grand priest is evil/ villain? I think its in panel 30 of this last chapter.

[TheMikado]

It's called No-Limit Fallacy. That is like saying Beerus can Haki anyone.

Ok, why can't he? We know he can't in the manga, but the anime seems to imply he could.

It would make sense if he can only Haki someone that is weaker than him. If he can Haki anyone, he would be too powerful and would make his character pointless.

Why would it make his character pointless? Look I'm not saying he can or can't for sure. What I'm saying is we have no idea because we have no idea how the technique works and if it is dependent on battle power and if it is, how much? There are some limits in the manga and some in the anime but they are different specifically because Goku tried to Hakai a being stronger than him, we have no idea if Goku could perform the technique on say Beerus if he got the opportunity however we know certain things could counter or null it so it's likely Beerus may know how to prevent or counter the technique. In the anime it seems to be power based, based on Freeza but this isn't the anime we are talking about and the manga has its own rules.

Further the entire point of this discussion was in reference to UI, where I stated that if UI is being utilized as explain than someone the likes of Roshi could tangle with Beerus if mastered as it would be skill and not power based. This began the discussion of No-Limit Fallacy and using Beerus ability to on whether he could Hakai anyone. Based on the manga, it would be likely possible but not probably as there are means to counter it. In the same vein we also know the technique "move without thinking" is not infallible in and of itself and entirely depends on the users focus and skill as evident by Beerus in his exhibition match.

Basically my believe is that it will be used as a means for Goku/Vegeta higher walls rather than just getting more powerful as they have for the last couple decades.

[TheMikado]

Just read the manga again. Saw something very interesting: when Grand Priest said you have to give everything or you will get erased. Beerus then said "AND THERE IT IS....THE TRUE TERROR OF THE KING OF ALL.

Is the manga also foreshadowing that the grand priest is evil/ villain? I think its in panel 30 of this last chapter.

I think Beerus is referring to Zen'os proclamation and that he is so impulsive he would destroy anyone on a whim. Beerus is implying that the Grand Priest is merely stating Zen'os rules not making them for him.

[micah007]

It's called No-Limit Fallacy. That is like saying Beerus can Haki anyone.

Ok, why can't he? We know he can't in the manga, but the anime seems to imply he could.

It would make sense if he can only Haki someone that is weaker than him. If he can Haki anyone, he would be too powerful and would make his character pointless.

Or he can use the technique on stronger characters they just have ways to counter/higher resistance but can still be affected by the technique.

[TheOne]

Ok, why can't he? We know he can't in the manga, but the anime seems to imply he could.

It would make sense if he can only Haki someone that is weaker than him. If he can Haki anyone, he would be too powerful and would make his character pointless.

Or he can use the technique on stronger characters they just have ways to counter/higher resistance but can still be affected by the technique.

Didn't Goku try and haki Merged Zamasu who was still technically stronger than him?

I don't remember what happened, but I feel like it would've worked unless something didn't happen. Any clarification?

[micah007]

It would make sense if he can only Haki someone that is weaker than him. If he can Haki anyone, he would be too powerful and would make his character pointless.

Or he can use the technique on stronger characters they just have ways to counter/higher resistance but can still be affected by the technique.

Didn't Goku try and haki Merged Zamasu who was still technically stronger than him?

I don't remember what happened, but I feel like it would've worked unless something didn't happen. Any clarification?

He did and it was working for a bit until Mai was brought in as a shield by MZ and Goku stopped. From there MZ just regenerated.

[BlueVegerot]

IN the manga beerus admitted that he had no way to destroy an immortal like M Zamasu so the hakai would not have worked regardless. Also if the hakai had no limits why would beerus be scared of zeno or the Grand Priest or why would GoDs be scared of a mortal achieving UI?

[TheMikado]

IN the manga beerus admitted that he had no way to destroy an immortal like M Zamasu so the hakai would not have worked regardless. Also if the hakai had no limits why would beerus be scared of zeno or the Grand Priest or why would GoDs be scared of a mortal achieving UI?

I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't have limits, but we also saw in the manga that the hakai actually was working and MZamasu had to take a hostage to stop it. As far as its limits no one said there isn't a way to counter it. The thing is we have no idea what the limits are and we certainly don't know if those limits have anything to do with strength. Zeno for example doesn't seem very powerful at all and as for why Gods would be afraid of the power you would still need to catch them off guard and hold them still. Theoretically the UI move without thinking principle could possibly let them anticipate and dodge the hakai attack.

[TheOne]

IN the manga beerus admitted that he had no way to destroy an immortal like M Zamasu so the hakai would not have worked regardless. Also if the hakai had no limits why would beerus be scared of zeno or the Grand Priest or why would GoDs be scared of a mortal achieving UI?

I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't have limits, but we also saw in the manga that the hakai actually was working and MZamasu had to take a hostage to stop it. As far as its limits no one said there isn't a way to counter it. The thing is we have no idea what the limits are and we certainly don't know if those limits have anything to do with strength. Zeno for example doesn't seem very powerful at all and as for why Gods would be afraid of the power you would still need to catch them off guard and hold them still. Theoretically the UI move without thinking principle could possibly let them anticipate and dodge the hakai attack.

That's what I was thinking. If you're fast enough to dodge it, you're good. Which I guess doesn't happen often.

It's also kinda weird to think that a hakai attack from Beerus wouldn't kill an immortal seeing as how every partical of them is destroyed.