"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LoganForkHands73]

Does this make Granola... a Super Cereal?

[Soldierofficial]

It's interesting to see that the dragon pretty much gave Granola the most relevant techniques available: hakai and UI. Although Granola having UI is not yet proven, seems logical enough. Maybe he is one level above Goku in the UI department.
It seems the goal here is to have Goku and Vegeta fight both of their techniques at the same time.

I'm expecting Granola to not let Elec run the show.

The arc is moving pretty fast, we already have the prophecy fulfilled, Granola is in a rush and should meet the saiyans fairly soon. Perhaps, Elec will tell him that the saiyans know where Freeza is, and even though he might not want to fight them, Goku will definitely try to fight him.

This is literally the worst theory I have read so far. And it’s 100% certainly false.

For starters,

UI and Hakai are totally opposite states and cannot even be combined!

Secondly, why would he even NEED UI??? With this much power, he doesn’t need it at all, just like Jiren and Broly didn’t need it. It goes against their nature. They are “powerhouses” by definition. And Granolah is no different. He’s even far more of a powerhouse than them. Considering he “wished” to get the highest powerlevel in Universe 7. He now has the highest amount of ki, which should naturally increase his SPEED to that level aswell! He didn’t get physically bigger either, so there is nothing slowing down his speed!

I've never read so much nonsense in my life.

UI is one of the most useful techniques in the series, an insane amp in power, speed and reactions, it will always be useful no matter how strong you are, your theory clearly contradicts many official statements.

[Trouser]

Even if the Super DBs are beyond Heeta's capability of collecting, there are a lot of Dragon Balls out there.

Yeah, let's gather those two new DB's, wish for Namekians DBs, then wish for location of SDBs. And then wish for super hot body strenght!
Or even better... Wait for those two DBs to be activated again and then wish for immortality, and if not, wish for stronger Dragon. Repeat 'till satisfaction.

[Kinokima]

There was some great Goku & Vegeta interaction this chapter. I love the banter with the Oracle fish.

[Chuquita]

I'm in such a strange place with this manga right now. This was a very well put together chapter, it feels like it will translate well to a movie if it gets one, but it checks barely any of my personal boxes of "plot points in Dragon Ball that get me invested" so I'm left feeling decidedly neutral. I can feel confident recommending it to people at least.

[Lionel]

So far Granolah is shaping up to be a neutral like "antagonist" motivated by his vendetta against Freeza. I hope he doesn't go off the deep end like Zamasu but it wouldn't surprise me. It's usually the tournament antagonists that maintain their composure during these arcs. I hope Granolah doesn't become corrupt but the fact that he is now so radically different in power may alter his mindset. Frankly, I'm surprised it was that easy for him to apparently surpass the likes of Majin Buu and presumably Moro like it's nothing.

[LoganForkHands73]

One aspect of Toyotaro's writing that has been a little wonky these last few chapters is how exposition is conveyed. There are an awful lot of "as you know"-isms, where characters discuss things that are already obvious to them. The Granola arc so far has been very engaging and has had effective buildup, but I think there are better ways to convey the information we need.

The Heetas are shaping up to be fairly okayish, but really, the only one who stands out is Elec, mainly for his scheming and chess playing. His subordinates still feel quite generic. I was half expecting Granola to kill Oil by accident. Fat brutes tend to die first, after all. I was surprised that the two Heetas withstood blows from Granola. Either Granola's power-up won't turn out to be all that, or the Heetas are far stronger than they look.

I am starting to get the sense that Granola will get drunk on his new power, his attack on the Heetas is quite disturbing perhaps because it's so unnatural and plain wrong for a character to abuse the Dragon Balls in this way. I can't wait to see him get a PTSD stroke and go *ahem* apeshit on the Saiyans.

I still love the fact that Freeza is looming off-panel, overshadowing everything that's been happening. This is exactly the kind of reverent treatment the Emperor of Evil deserves now he's resurrected.

[Public Enemy No.1]

I must say that I'm...unsure about my feelings toward the manga at the moment. While the setup of this arc has felt more fresh than anything Dragon Ball has put out in years, I can't ignore the staleness of the Goku + Vegeta duopoly. I couldn't help but roll my eyes at Goku and Vegeta's exchange about who is truly stronger.

As for the chapter at hand:
I enjoyed the characterization of Beerus and Granolah, the latter is shaping up to be a pretty interesting character. While I enjoyed the story progression in this chapter, I felt that the momentum came to a halt when it came to Granolah's battle with the Heeter's, Oil in particular. I felt that the fight was unnecessarily long (especially for the "strongest in the universe") and only served to pad out pages so that the chapter would end on the dramatic cliffhanger.

My current concern is that the story is going the route of another "pulling the strings" plot similar to DBS: Broly. I'm also not at all thrilled that Frieza is factoring into another Dragon Ball story.

[GodVegetto91]

It's interesting to see that the dragon pretty much gave Granola the most relevant techniques available: hakai and UI. Although Granola having UI is not yet proven, seems logical enough. Maybe he is one level above Goku in the UI department.
It seems the goal here is to have Goku and Vegeta fight both of their techniques at the same time.

I'm expecting Granola to not let Elec run the show.

The arc is moving pretty fast, we already have the prophecy fulfilled, Granola is in a rush and should meet the saiyans fairly soon. Perhaps, Elec will tell him that the saiyans know where Freeza is, and even though he might not want to fight them, Goku will definitely try to fight him.

This is literally the worst theory I have read so far. And it’s 100% certainly false.

For starters,

UI and Hakai are totally opposite states and cannot even be combined!

Secondly, why would he even NEED UI??? With this much power, he doesn’t need it at all, just like Jiren and Broly didn’t need it. It goes against their nature. They are “powerhouses” by definition. And Granolah is no different. He’s even far more of a powerhouse than them. Considering he “wished” to get the highest powerlevel in Universe 7. He now has the highest amount of ki, which should naturally increase his SPEED to that level aswell! He didn’t get physically bigger either, so there is nothing slowing down his speed!

I've never read so much nonsense in my life.

UI is one of the most useful techniques in the series, an insane amp in power, speed and reactions, it will always be useful no matter how strong you are, your theory clearly contradicts many official statements.

“Nonsense”???

So agreeing with the officially given definitions of both states is nonsense???

UI = Thinking about nothing.

Hakai = Thinking about destruction.

They are two totally different and opposite states of mind, hence cannot be combined in any possible way.

Because to take on the UI form, you have to think about nothing..

While to take on the Destruction form, you have to think about total destruction..

Therefore, one has to make a choice..

Either you think about nothing and gain UI.. “OR” You think about total destruction and gain Hakai powers.. It’s one or the other, they cannot be combined.

They are two different and opposite mental states..

[Grand Marshal 1]

This is literally the worst theory I have read so far. And it’s 100% certainly false.

For starters,

UI and Hakai are totally opposite states and cannot even be combined!

Secondly, why would he even NEED UI??? With this much power, he doesn’t need it at all, just like Jiren and Broly didn’t need it. It goes against their nature. They are “powerhouses” by definition. And Granolah is no different. He’s even far more of a powerhouse than them. Considering he “wished” to get the highest powerlevel in Universe 7. He now has the highest amount of ki, which should naturally increase his SPEED to that level aswell! He didn’t get physically bigger either, so there is nothing slowing down his speed!

I've never read so much nonsense in my life.

UI is one of the most useful techniques in the series, an insane amp in power, speed and reactions, it will always be useful no matter how strong you are, your theory clearly contradicts many official statements.

“Nonsense”???

So agreeing with the officially given definitions of both states is nonsense???

UI = Thinking about nothing.

Hakai = Thinking about destruction.

They are two totally different and opposite states of mind, hence cannot be combined in any possible way.

Because to take on the UI form, you have to think about nothing..

While to take on the Destruction form, you have to think about nothing but destruction..

Therefore, one has to make a choice..

Either you think about nothing and gain UI.. “OR” think about total destruction and gain Hakai powers.. It’s one or the other and they cannot be combined.

Sorry to break it to you, but that's debunked by the fact that Beerus has trained Ultra Instinct and has a difficult time mastering it because of it's innate characteristic of being the most powerful ability in the cosmos, reserved for Angels who rank above GoDs.

GoDs learn hakai and improve their UI too if they wish to (Beerus has obviously tried). And we see that because Beerus has used UI on screen (his pseudo Omen).

[GodVegetto91]

I've never read so much nonsense in my life.

UI is one of the most useful techniques in the series, an insane amp in power, speed and reactions, it will always be useful no matter how strong you are, your theory clearly contradicts many official statements.

“Nonsense”???

So agreeing with the officially given definitions of both states is nonsense???

UI = Thinking about nothing.

Hakai = Thinking about destruction.

They are two totally different and opposite states of mind, hence cannot be combined in any possible way.

Because to take on the UI form, you have to think about nothing..

While to take on the Destruction form, you have to think about nothing but destruction..

Therefore, one has to make a choice..

Either you think about nothing and gain UI.. “OR” think about total destruction and gain Hakai powers.. It’s one or the other and they cannot be combined.

Sorry to break it to you, but that's debunked by the fact that Beerus has trained Ultra Instinct and has a difficult time mastering it because of it's innate characteristic of being the most powerful ability in the cosmos, reserved for Angels who rank above GoDs.

GoDs learn hakai and improve their UI too if they wish to (Beerus has obviously tried). And we see that because Beerus has used UI on screen (his pseudo Omen).

It has NOT been debunked at all.. Whenever Beerus uses a form of UI.. He has to sacrifice his destructive mindset + the destructive powers that naturally arise from it for the DURATION of the technique/mental state that is UI..

[Brettjr25]

So the Dragon can't make you more powerful than your latent abilities but a work around this is that it can take your potential from your remaining lives, stack them and give it to your all at once making your powerful but you lose those lives. At the same time the dragon can grant you immortality, ie a infinite amount of life and potential increases. So what happens when you wish for immortality then to become the most powerful person? Can you surpass Zeno? What if Roshi made this wish since he used a phoenix or something to have a long lasting life???

[Thani]

I mean, you cannot say that Goku did NOT use Hakai while in Ultra Instinct in this page. It's the same effect as when he tried to use it against Zamasu, the same effect when Beerus used against Zamasu.

That alone indicates you can combine the two.

[Kinokima]

I mean, you cannot say that Goku did NOT use Hakai while in Ultra Instinct in this page. It's the same effect as when he tried to use it against Zamasu, the same effect when Beerus used against Zamasu.

That alone indicates you can combine the two.

I am not getting in an argument about whether you can combine the two or not (I don’t see why you can’t ) but no that is obviously not Hakai based on what we learned in these past two chapters.

[TheSaiyanGod]

The Heetas are shaping up to be fairly okayish, but really, the only one who stands out is Elec, mainly for his scheming and chess playing. His subordinates still feel quite generic. I was half expecting Granola to kill Oil by accident. Fat brutes tend to die first, after all. I was surprised that the two Heetas withstood blows from Granola. Either Granola's power-up won't turn out to be all that, or the Heetas are far stronger than they look.

I think Oil is the most generic of the group, while Gas and Maki are potentially interesting. Gas in particular proved to be smart and calm, he was not frightened or surprised by Granolah's power (and cut off the scarf he used to arrest Maki), and seems intentionally not to have been involved in the fight. Elec is definitely the best tho

[GodVegetto91]

Does this make Granola... a Super Cereal?

Perfect post this! It HAD TO BE posted!

[GodVegetto91]

I mean, you cannot say that Goku did NOT use Hakai while in Ultra Instinct in this page. It's the same effect as when he tried to use it against Zamasu, the same effect when Beerus used against Zamasu.

That alone indicates you can combine the two.

It doesn’t indicate anything.

Basically E = MC2

Hakai is the ability to entirely erase things from existence. The energy doesn't come from the user himself, as in it’s not you throwing some kind of beam or kiai at the object. You simply erase the object from reality and when the object is erased it produces the explosion. The explosion doesn't come from an attack but from something being wiped out of existence.
The one that leaves sand instead of an explosion is just a lower level of hakai that sure does destroy things but not entirely, it doesn't erase you completely from reality, it reduces you to sand. The hakai that doesn't explode is a proper disintegration.
The hakai that does explode, is a legit reality warping ability that can literally delete things from reality itself leaving nothing.
(From the explanations beerus gave this chapter and past chapter).

[goku the krump dancer]

Granolah and Monaito's dynamic is giving me Zamasu/Gowasu vibes while Elec conspiring to have Goku and Vegeta fight Granolah is similar to DBS-Broly's plot.

This is getting good though, I wonder what role Freeza is going to play in this.

[Lionel]

Why is it that these people with an axe to grind against Freeza never look to the source of the tyrant? King Cold. I understand that Freeza is the face and impetus behind the PTO but why isn't anyone pointing fingers at or demanding that the monarchical progenitor of Freeza face retaliation as well?

[PurestEvil]

I would like to interrupt this conversation by pointing out that God Manga is a thing.
Probably written by toribot