"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Mireya]

I'm sure Toyotaro didn't even think anybody would interpret this as anything more than "Vegeta is telling 17 that his son is strong", he's not making a statement of which characters has better feats or anything

I doubt that Vegeta remember exactly how strong Future Trunks was more than a decade ago, but both people involved in the conversation knew he was strong, so that's all that matters

Yeah, it may be a throwback statement... But since that's all we got and we see them defending from the Cell Juniors when more than one attacked them, with effort, why not take that clue at face value? Original, I'd have them way stronger but decided to go down this implication for it's the most definitive one we have.

[super michael]

Looking back, Roshi teaching Goku the basics again makes a lot of sense. Toyotaro foreshadowed Goku’s character regress in Super Hero.

Granolah arc also foreshadowed using dragon balls for an easy power up.

Is kid Trunks confirmed as = CGs Future Trunks? Vegeta stated to #17 before the ToP that his kid is as good as the Trunks he saw and while it could be in reference to androids saga Trunks, it's possible Vegeta got the information of 17 seeing things through Cell off screen, as 17 said that to Goku and Goku spoke things to Vegeta later, which is also backed up by Goten and Trunks struggling, but still fending off the Cell Juniors, a feat androids saga future Trunks couldn't accomplish. Maybe this puts the Boo arc kids as around CGs Vegeta/Trunks/Cell Juniors as the most official placement for them.

When the fusion within Buu ended, Buu got Piccolo's clothes, not Trunks' or Goten's, so I think this means they're still weaker than Piccolo, and meaning still below Vegeta/Trunks from Cell Games in that case, unless when the fusion ended they also were at base form for some reason.

Though if they are weaker than Piccolo, it is a noticeable power up for them to keep up with Cell Juniors well enough lol.

I'm sure Toyotaro didn't even think anybody would interpret this as anything more than "Vegeta is telling 17 that his son is strong", he's not making a statement of which characters has better feats or anything

I doubt that Vegeta remember exactly how strong Future Trunks was more than a decade ago, but both people involved in the conversation knew he was strong, so that's all that matters

Characters in DB tend to memorize how strong someone was years ago, most noticeably Gohan back in Cell games, so I'd say that any power comparison is most likely to be accurate.

Goten and Trunks were in their base form, when Gotenks fusion was gone.
When the individual does fusion in their base form, that is the form they return to when their fusion is over.
When the individuals are in their transformed that, that is the form they return to when their fusion is over.

That is why SSJ1 Gotenks reverts back into SSJ Goten and Trunks outside Fat Buu house, since Goten and Trunks did their fusion in their SSJ form.
That is why SSJ3 Gotenks reverts back into Base Goten and Base Trunks, since they fused in their base form.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm all aboard Toriyama's train of thought there. Rematches aren't necessary, and Toriyama himself is far more interested in using the next character/antagonist/villain as the ever-moving goalpost. He actually keeps taking them FURTHER away from us! I think that's quaint, neat, and quintissential Dragon Ball.

Quoting this in another thread so it won't be off topic.

I feel like DBS is doing quite the opposite here - instead of moving on from Beerus towards even stronger opponents, Goku has spent the last 10 years trying to catch up. I think it's only natural people would think this is building towards something.

I don't think there's ever gonna be a rematch though. Most of the time Goku just beats someone even stronger than whoever defeated him last.

[Hugo Boss]

Most of the time Goku just beats someone even stronger than whoever defeated him last.

I think that works out well enough for me. And Vegeta is usually the one that surpass the one that defeated Goku last, but most of the time loses to the next big enemy. It’s interesting that as soon as Vegeta directly acknowledges that he kinda managed to beat Goku. It’s a way of getting his rematch fulfilled.

[Mireya]

But even if they featured Vegeta beating Goku once, in a not so serious match, more like a serious match but without killing intent, how will it imply when it comes to the real battles? Will Vegeta get that initial hype of achieving something big only to fall short and Goku get the W again vs the enemy? I think that has happened plainly in DB, but I think maintaining a predictable pattern from the series wouldn't be the same as maintaining its essence. Essence would to me come more as that real feel the story gives, of that unsettling threat and that subtle and well portrayed character growth... While Super doesn't seem dedicated to that from what I see. They seem more keen on repeating things that were cool, but are easier to replicate and more predictable.

[Cipher]

I don't think there's ever gonna be a rematch though. Most of the time Goku just beats someone even stronger than whoever defeated him last.

Hence why I don't think we're ever getting that direct tangle with Black Freeza either...

[Mireya]

I think that DBS doesn't directly place an emphasis on rematch, but the suggestion is still always there... The rematch doesn't happen and the focus is generally on facing new enemies freshly introduced, except Freeza in FnF. I think it has integrated elements that both distance the view for rematches but also builds up the potential for resurgence of past conflicts, which may be the intention, causing uncertainty and for some, building an intriguing view of how it'll unfold.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hence why I don't think we're ever getting that direct tangle with Black Freeza either...

Maybe. I think this one is just a matter of whether Toriyama and co. are even interested in such a story. Daima gives me the impression AT is bored with Super, and I feel Manga Super Hero is just buying time while they decide what's next.

[Basaku]

I'm all aboard Toriyama's train of thought there. Rematches aren't necessary, and Toriyama himself is far more interested in using the next character/antagonist/villain as the ever-moving goalpost. He actually keeps taking them FURTHER away from us! I think that's quaint, neat, and quintissential Dragon Ball.

I don't see how is this suppoused to be 'quintessential Dragon Ball' at all if every villain introduced in the franchise's original run was dealt with by the end of their respective saga or right in the next following one so gonna disagree completly here, that's not how Toriyama used to write DB at all.

And an ever-moving goalpost can only work for so long before it becomes pointless, meaningless and plain lazy, uninspired and detrimental to a story. TBH the only instance this really works in fiction is in lovecraftian stories and let's be honest, nothing in DB and none of the characters are lovecraftian

[Hugo Boss]

I'm all aboard Toriyama's train of thought there. Rematches aren't necessary, and Toriyama himself is far more interested in using the next character/antagonist/villain as the ever-moving goalpost. He actually keeps taking them FURTHER away from us! I think that's quaint, neat, and quintissential Dragon Ball.

I don't see how is this suppoused to be 'quintessential Dragon Ball' at all if every villain introduced in the franchise's original run was dealt with by the end of their respective saga or right in the next following one so gonna disagree completly here, that's not how Toriyama used to write DB at all.

And an ever-moving goalpost can only work for so long before it becomes pointless, meaningless and plain lazy, uninspired and detrimental to a story. TBH the only instance this really works in fiction is in lovecraftian stories and let's be honest, nothing in DB and none of the characters are lovecraftian

I think you are entirely missing the point, lol. He is not talking about Beerus. He’s talking about an abstract ever-moving goalpost, represented by the next enemy.

[Basaku]

I think you are entirely missing the point, lol. He is not talking about Beerus. He’s talking about an abstract ever-moving goalpost, represented by the next enemy.

Re-reading the posts I may have misinterpreted it, the discussion was dealing with Freeza and Beerus (and other) rematches and I thought VegettoEX was defending the idea of keeping it unsolved and/or using Freeza/Beerus' level of power as the ever distancing and eluding goalpost.

Well If I missed the point then I did, maybe he will clarify a bit

[VegettoEX]

That’s what happens when only part of my post from an entirely different thread gets quoted in elsewhere…!

[Mireya]

Why is Piccolo's power up so lazy? I mean, wishing for the DBs to get a potential unlock is a so lazy and something they could, were it possible, have done so long ago. The RoSaT coming outta nowhere already felt a little... Ehh... But at least they detailed the space there, gave a context, made the environment explained and featured actual training with discovering within the RoSaT, though the training were all (except Goku's) off screen. But that was still something which was visible there was more care into making the power up digestible... As glarring as a last thing thought, not all thing without a foreshadowing and last planned are bad if they make a good workaround with that. Piccolo, though... It was like if any warrior wished, like if Piccolo wished to be have his potential unlocked post Raditz's battle and clashed against Vegeta and Nappa. If I'm not mistaken, Shenlong even specified that all he could do to Goku was bring him back to FP (hinting that more than that, i.e increasing his power beyond what he has, he can't)...

[Magnificent Ponta]

I don't remember seeing this here before, so figured I'd post it.

Turns out that in addition to the special chapter colour art, the V-Jump Cover featuring Orange Piccolo and Gohan Beast, and the Jump Festa artwork of Gohan Beast, Toyotarou has done some collab art for Dragon Ball Legends, to commemorate the release of Chapter 100. It's Son Goku in Omen Ultra Instinct:

[Basaku]

I don't remember seeing this here before, so figured I'd post it.

Turns out that in addition to the special chapter colour art, the V-Jump Cover featuring Orange Piccolo and Gohan Beast, and the Jump Festa artwork of Gohan Beast, Toyotarou has done some collab art for Dragon Ball Legends, to commemorate the release of Chapter 100. It's Son Goku in Omen Ultra Instinct:

That's gorgeous!

People will call me Toyo fanboy but I will say that while I consider peak Toriyama to be a far better artist than Toyo in most aspects, when it comes to coloring I actually think Toyo is better

[Jiren The Alpha]

I don't remember seeing this here before, so figured I'd post it.

Turns out that in addition to the special chapter colour art, the V-Jump Cover featuring Orange Piccolo and Gohan Beast, and the Jump Festa artwork of Gohan Beast, Toyotarou has done some collab art for Dragon Ball Legends, to commemorate the release of Chapter 100. It's Son Goku in Omen Ultra Instinct:

That's gorgeous!

People will call me Toyo fanboy but I will say that while I consider peak Toriyama to be a far better artist than Toyo in most aspects, when it comes to coloring I actually think Toyo is better

I need you too look at Toriyama's and Toyo's color art side by side and after that, try saying that again without laughing.

[Basaku]

I need you too look at Toriyama's and Toyo's color art side by side and after that, try saying that again without laughing.

No problem. Next question? It's called an opinion

[Noah]

So lemme get this straight, Toyotaro went to a safe fan servicey route where Gohan Beast show his powers to Goku which motivates him to do a sparring match with his son in his Mastered Ultra Instinct state?

Not criticizing this as I think it's pretty cool, but he could went to a less obvious route:


- We already saw Goku vs. Gohan a couple of times, so have him to meet Broly. Make it Broly vs. Gohan (that would be such a hype, that even manga haters would stop to read the chapter)

- Where is Piccolo? Didn't saw him on leaked scans, asssuming he was not on the place, why he didn't come? It could be a perfect opportunity to have Vegeta vs. Piccolo (as this fight never happened in any media).

[super michael]

Seeing Goten and Trunks sparring with Gohan in Beerus planet is good, plus it is mentioned that they have been training and have a goal to protect.
Toyotaro knows what the fans wants.


Toei they only showed Goten and Trunks to either forbid them from doing anything or keeping secrets. I really don't know why Toei thought fans would like that.


Toyotaro understand that fans wants to see their favourite characters fight and train. Even slice of life is good.

[Alkiser]

Cover of the 23rd volume of the Dragon Ball Super manga

https://twitter.com/DbsHype/status/1765 ... OvBqg&s=19