Was the Android Arc pointless?

[MarCas92]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love it. But nothing about it really seems to have any lasting impact on the Buu Arc. Here is what I mean: Let's go from the Freeza/Namek arc and jump towards the Buu Arc. Trunks never happened , no androids, no SS2 etc. If you wanted to, with some minor rewrites you could entirely skip it and lose nothing.

-No SS2. Well, it is immediately made pointless by SS3, so you could pretty much rename it to 2 and nothing is really lost.
-Goku is dead. Well, why not just have him die at the end of the Namek Arc.
-Vegeta. Well, he is on Earth, spends his life training, impregnates Bulma, reaches Super Saiyan, Trunks is born. Nothing really happens in the Cell Arc that directly affects his character in the Boo Arc.
-Gohan. Well, at the end of the Namek Arc he starts studying again. So when the Boo Arc starts he's just a normal high school student. The whole "was powerful, slacked off, gets a power up" plot never went anywhere, so it really isn't much of a loss. And in this scenario it's actually warranted since he was never charged with the responsibility of protecting the Earth.
-Krillin could've really married any random chick considering how useless 18 is in the Boo Arc.
-Hercule could've just as easily been introduced in this arc.


The only major loss here is Goten. But Gotenks, again, ends up being inconsequential.

Thoughts? Like I said, I love the Android Arc (heck, I love EVERY arc in DB). I just realized that it really doesn't add much to the grand scheme of things. Even in new stories Boo and Freeza are always mentioned. I get that the Android Arc was supposed to be a more grounded conflict, being just an Earthly threat(up until Cell) and the villains being tied into Goku's past. But it just seems like at the end of the day, it didn't really change the Dragon World.

[Doctor.]

I think the last two arcs are useless, really. Take away the Boo arc and you still end up in BoG with nobody having the power to stop Beerus and them having to resort to SSG.

[Chuquita]

Android Arc's needed because it's the genesis of VegeBul; without VegeBul happening Vegeta doesn't have two of his three people special to him in the Buu arc and it leaves him reduced to Gokû's stalker of sorts. If we jump right from Freeza to Buu that means whatever time Vegeta was devoting to Bulma and Trunks post-Cell is going to be added to all the time he was already using to train to "defeat" Gokû.

[Kid Buu]

Android Arc's needed because it's the genesis of VegeBul; without VegeBul happening Vegeta doesn't have two of his three people special to him in the Buu arc and it leaves him reduced to Gokû's stalker of sorts. If we jump right from Freeza to Buu that means whatever time Vegeta was devoting to Bulma and Trunks post-Cell is going to be added to all the time he was already using to train to "defeat" Gokû.

I agree. Not to mention the pairing gave us Trunks who seems to be one of the more popular characters in the series.

[LuckyCat]

Many points! Trunks' appearance. Instant transmission. ROSAT. #18. Goku finally giving another character a chance to fight the big bad and win.

Also, Buu's qualities like regeneration, absorption and stealing hero's moves seem largely inspired by Cell.

[Attitudefan]

Many points! Trunks' appearance. Instant transmission. ROSAT. #18. Goku finally giving another character a chance to fight the big bad and win.

Also, Buu's qualities like regeneration, absorption and stealing hero's moves seem largely inspired by Cell.

But a lot of that can be tied to the Freeza arc. Goku learns instant trans-location in space, so who is to say he didn't learn it before he died or when he was dead for 10 plus years? Room of Spirit and Time could just be introduced in the Buu arc just like it was in the Buu arc, and therefore, can be its introduction. Not only that, it would have a better introduction for we see a fight in there instead of details being skipped over like it was in the Cell arc.

Vegeta could have easily given up and stay on Earth because he was truly overshadowed by Goku.

I do think that the loss of 18 is not a big deal, but it still hurts. I do think that incentive to go Majin could be done so Vegeta finally can attain Super Saiyan and surpass Goku, until Goku has SSJ2/3 up his sleeve. I think that's a better idea and makes the SSJ transformation more special.

Relegate SSJ2 plot points to a SSJ1 transformation, making it more unique, while Goku outshines everyone again with his long golden hair SSJ after. I think it would make the Buu arc be more solid instead of what it was, a Cell rehash for the villain and too many Super Saiyans around when it was undeserved (and have lame power-ups to make transforming special again.... which doesn't really work).

[Sora Saiyan]

I think the last two arcs are useless, really. Take away the Boo arc and you still end up in BoG with nobody having the power to stop Beerus and them having to resort to SSG.

Take away the last two arcs and you won't have the number of Saiyans required to perform the SSJG ritual, and Vegeta could still be an arse. Also, since SSJG would depend on Goku being as strong as possible, Beerus would probably wreck Goku and destroy earth if he remained at the level he was at on Namek.

[LuckyCat]

But a lot of that can be tied to the Freeza arc. Goku learns instant trans-location in space, so who is to say he didn't learn it before he died or when he was dead for 10 plus years? Room of Spirit and Time could just be introduced in the Buu arc just like it was in the Buu arc, and therefore, can be its introduction. Not only that, it would have a better introduction for we see a fight in there instead of details being skipped over like it was in the Cell arc.

Well if we're going to make little edits in all the material to remove an arc then sure it works. I think that's more of a testament to each arc standing pretty well on its own.

[Doctor.]

I think the last two arcs are useless, really. Take away the Boo arc and you still end up in BoG with nobody having the power to stop Beerus and them having to resort to SSG.

Take away the last two arcs and you won't have the number of Saiyans required to perform the SSJG ritual, and Vegeta could still be an arse. Also, since SSJG would depend on Goku being as strong as possible, Beerus would probably wreck Goku and destroy earth if he remained at the level he was at on Namek.

I'm sure Trunks and Goten would have still been born if Cell and Boo never existed. Gohan would probably still get married to Videl (or anyone else) even if the Boo arc didn't happen. Goku's base form didn't get too much stronger after Namek anyway, so 10+ years of training would still have him reach the same level.

[Sora Saiyan]

Oh, what I thought you meant was take the arcs out and just have BoG happen without any of the contents of those arcs at all. My bad. Power wise I believe Goku got like 30 x stronger, so In my head he's a lot stronger than he was in the Freeza arc and without the threats around I can't see him getting to that level. Maybe Vegeta and Goku couldve had a fight to the death, but besides that they might make the slow gains they usually made when there was no threat around.

[irreality]

-No SS2. Well, it is immediately made pointless by SS3, so you could pretty much rename it to 2 and nothing is really lost.

Eh, I think it helps show that the "older saiyans" are stronger than the kids. Also, transforming into SSJ2 was important in seeing the progression of transformations, and that it is more than just raw strength. Plus, the character interactions between Piccolo, Gohan and Goku that led to the transformation are all really important to their characters. You can argue it could have all "happened in the background" but the point of storytelling is to tell a story.

-Goku is dead. Well, why not just have him die at the end of the Namek Arc.

But they brought Krillin back? makes no sense. Also, he needs to learn instant transmission. He could have learned it in Heaven, but if you start piling on the "learned in heaven" hacks, the story loses something. Fusion and SSJ3 are bad enough.

-Vegeta. Well, he is on Earth, spends his life training, impregnates Bulma, reaches Super Saiyan, Trunks is born. Nothing really happens in the Cell Arc that directly affects his character in the Boo Arc.

He learns to love Trunks in the ROSAT. If not for that, or if Goku was already dead before Trunks was born, I'm not even sure he would have stayed on Earth. He wouldn't have been training for years in the Android Arc to have the secondary goal of "beating Son Goku" if he was already dead -- making him not have the same level of resentment to go Majin to get that long expected battle (since there was never the anticipation of a rematch). Without all the gaining power/losing power arcs in the Android arc, I don't think Vegeta would harbor this rivalry with Goku. Goku went SSJ, died, then he goes SSJ. Achievement Unlocked. Done. It would be a completely different characterization for him.

-Gohan. Well, at the end of the Namek Arc he starts studying again. So when the Boo Arc starts he's just a normal high school student. The whole "was powerful, slacked off, gets a power up" plot never went anywhere, so it really isn't much of a loss. And in this scenario it's actually warranted since he was never charged with the responsibility of protecting the Earth.

Gohan would never go SSJ, might have never caught Videl's attention. For that matter, why would Videl even be all that noteworthy? So her dad beat the Tenkaichi Budokai? So what? So did Goku.

-Krillin could've really married any random chick considering how useless 18 is in the Boo Arc.

Might have been side filler but without her the tournament would have fizzled even more, making Mr. Satan even more irrelevant, the spectators would have left earlier, no audience for Goku and Majin Vegeta. Also, let's kill all of Krillin's romantic side plot, why not? If you remove everything from the story that makes the story charming, sure, these plots are irrelevant.

-Hercule could've just as easily been introduced in this arc.

No, he categorically couldn't -- this is the largest plothole of your list. He is the Savior of the world from Cell. That is why he is rich, that is why the tournament now gives him a pass, that is why Videl can fight crime, that is why everyone recognizes his voice to make the Genki Dama. That is why he has to go befriend Buu. Not for beating the Tenkaichi Budokai that one time or something. The Buu arc just couldn't happen if Mr. Satan hadn't defeated Cell. Most major plot points would fizzle, and the Earth would be destroyed.

The only major loss here is Goten. But Gotenks, again, ends up being inconsequential.

Without Goten, Trunks has no foil and is an irrelevant kid (Especially since we don't know him from the Cell arc). And we already wrote off Gohan, since he never went SSJ. So we are left with the Goku show, with some Vegeta sprinkled in, who is inexplicably stayed on Earth, is a good guy, and underwent 10 years of character development off screen. I don't think it would have worked.

[Lord Beerus]

While I found the Android Arc a bore, I don't find it pointless. The introduction of the Future Trunks was the catalyst for Vegeta showing genuine humanity for the first time, even if it was very briefly. Which would prove to have great significance in the development in Vegeta's character later in the series.

[funrush]

The Android arc was supposed to establish Gohan as the new main character, but then during the Buu arc Toriyama was just like fuck it and brought Goku back.

It also showed Vegeta's domestication, getting a girlfriend and having a kid. This set the stage for the Majin Vegeta stuff in the Buu arc.

[EXBadguy]

The "secret" leader of the Red Ribbon Androids, Trunks, 18, the two new SS forms while one of them was still used during the Buu saga, Instant Transmission. That doesn't sound pointless to me. If anything, the Buu saga's the pointless one. None of the villains in that saga had any connection the way that the last three(or four if you count Dr Gero) did, NONE! The only thing that saved it was Buu's past and, to an extent, SSJ3.

[Lord Beerus]

The "secret" leader of the Red Ribbon Androids, Trunks, 18, the two new SS forms while one of them was still used during the Buu saga, Instant Transmission. That doesn't sound pointless to me. If anything, the Buu saga's the pointless one. None of the villains in that saga had any connection the way that the last three(or four if you count Dr Gero) did, NONE! The only thing that saved it was Buu's past and, to an extent, SSJ3.

I wouldn't say the Majin Boo arc is pointless. Without the Majin Boo arc, Vegeta remains a reclusive evil prick and Mr Satan remains a huge jerkass. Yeah, the arc had too many forms, introduces some concepts that ultimate went nowhere, scattered narrative etc. But as far as character development goes, the only arc that rivals that in the entire franchise is the Saiyan arc.

[Doctor.]

The "secret" leader of the Red Ribbon Androids, Trunks, 18, the two new SS forms while one of them was still used during the Buu saga, Instant Transmission. That doesn't sound pointless to me. If anything, the Buu saga's the pointless one. None of the villains in that saga had any connection the way that the last three(or four if you count Dr Gero) did, NONE! The only thing that saved it was Buu's past and, to an extent, SSJ3.

I wouldn't say the Majin Boo arc is pointless. Without the Majin Boo arc, Vegeta remains a reclusive evil prick and Mr Satan remains a huge jerkass. Yeah, the arc had too many forms, introduces some concepts that ultimate went nowhere, scattered narrative etc. But as far as character development goes, the only arc that rivals that in the entire franchise is the Saiyan arc.

The Freeza arc would like to have a word with you and how you're underestimating its brilliance in the character department.

[Lord Beerus]

The "secret" leader of the Red Ribbon Androids, Trunks, 18, the two new SS forms while one of them was still used during the Buu saga, Instant Transmission. That doesn't sound pointless to me. If anything, the Buu saga's the pointless one. None of the villains in that saga had any connection the way that the last three(or four if you count Dr Gero) did, NONE! The only thing that saved it was Buu's past and, to an extent, SSJ3.

I wouldn't say the Majin Boo arc is pointless. Without the Majin Boo arc, Vegeta remains a reclusive evil prick and Mr Satan remains a huge jerkass. Yeah, the arc had too many forms, introduces some concepts that ultimate went nowhere, scattered narrative etc. But as far as character development goes, the only arc that rivals that in the entire franchise is the Saiyan arc.

The Freeza arc would like to have a word with you and how you're underestimating its brilliance in the character department.

Eh. Vegeta shed some tears, only to go back to being an evil prick in the very next arc and Piccolo being wished back on his home planet and Goku accepting his heritage were certainly poignant moments, but it didn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of either of their character.

[ABED]

If you are entertained, it's not pointless.

[IDreamtIWasABee]

Almost. Almost! But it did give us

-Trunks (the good one)
-18
-Kamiccolo
-Gohan as a kid SSJ(2)
-A quality middle act (the hunt for Cell)

That's a lot to lose...but none of it matters in the Boo arc. Not one goddamn item on that list matters. So yup, you can jump from Freeza to Boo and barely skip a beat.

Plus, you actually gain some things from excising the Android arc

-No pissing on SSJs. Yeah, SSJ2 is rendered obsolete by Boo, but it's done in a dramatic, respectful way (Vegeta's sacrifice). Compare this to 18 one-shotting Vegeta and Trunks
-Goku's dead for a dramatic, respectful reason
-Vegeta's introspective nature is kindled by Goku slaying Freeza, his slaver, and dying forever, rather than Goku slaying some random asshole and dying forever by choice
-There's sensible escalation in power, with Boo being a very show-don't-tell villain and a refreshing change of pace after Freeza; meanwhile, the heroes have to keep pulling magical power-ups out of their asses. Cell had potential, but was poorly used, and the SSJ grades were just a new, more boring version of power levels.
-You can nerf everyone from SSJ to nothing, leaving only Goku and Vegeta, the SS2s, as SSJs (and Vegeta can be explained away by his going Majin). Gotenks would go SSJ when he transforms, but in both his case and Vegeta's, it's cheating, leaving Goku as the only normal, true SSJ

I wouldn't give up the Android saga-it does melodrama like nobody's business. But I do enjoy jumping from the Freeza arc to the Boo arc.

[funrush]

I think the Buu arc is probably the best in terms of character development, although the Saiyan Saga does a good amount with how it does Piccolo, and as pointed out to me in the Unpopular Opinions thread, Gohan gets some too.

I mean you can't totally jump from Freeza to Buu, Tenshinhan not being there doesn't really have to be explained, but who is this 18 person living with Krillin and why is her name 18?