Super Saiyan God/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Theory

[Gyt Kaliba]

So while I was at work today, I managed to do a re-watch of Battle of Gods (the extended edition, and this was actually the first time I'd ever watched that version subbed) as well as Resurrection 'F' (first time watching it subbed as well), and something from towards the end of the first film got me thinking about something as I moved on into the second. Keep in mind, this is all theory - there's absolutely nothing substantial to back me up here, but it does kind of make sense as far as I can tell.

Okay, so think back on the story we're told about the original Super Saiyan God. He was a good Saiyan who, along with his fellow comrades, was able to fight against the much stronger evil Saiyans for a time by pooling their power together into himself, and giving him a never before seen form. The power went away too quickly however, and he (as well as the other good Saiyans presumably) were slaughtered, forgotten to history, and only the brutal nature of most Saiyans was remembered from then on. It's probably a pretty safe assumption that, outside of this original Saiyan achieving the Super Saiyan God form, the only other transformations going on were a bunch of Saiyans going Oozaru. At most, there was maybe one of the older Super Saiyans of legend around or something, but the form was not likely to be as widespread as it is now, since all the legends still refer to it as something that only happens to one Saiyan every thousand or so years.

Now jump forward to Goku achieving the form in Battle of Gods. Like with the previous user of the form, the power faded away fairly quickly, before he was able to win his fight. Unlike with the original user of the form though, the power didn't seem to actually fade away entirely - it stayed in Goku's body, with Beerus commenting that he seemed to have 'absorb' that power into his own.

So what makes Goku different from the original Super Saiyan God (other than that he's the main character who's going to get these kinds of thing to happen to him regardless)? He's also a Super Saiyan, something that the original (And in-so-far as we are told, the only other) Super Saiyan God was almost certainly not. Goku is likely the very first Saiyan to ever be both a Super Saiyan and a Super Saiyan God. My theory is that this is what made the power not leave Goku entirely like it should have - something about the Super Saiyan power he had within hooked on to the similar and yet different Super Saiyan God power, and kept it around, albeit leaving Goku to learn how to utilize it on his own (something he presumably learns, alongside Vegeta, while training with Whis). It is from this that the next form, a Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God (aka Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, or 'Super Saiyan Blue') is born, making Goku and Vegeta both to be literally the first instances of this having ever happened.

So what do you guys think? Does this idea hold any merit at all, or am I way off base here?

[Xeztin]

It makes perfect sense to me, though if you think about it, in the ritual with Goku, they were all Super Saiyans, there probably wasn't a Super Saiyan among the ritual of the Original Super Saiyan God, having the form achieved by normal Saiyan's pouring into another Saiyan probably vanishes completely when the times up. This would explain why the form looks like Goku's base rather than his Super Saiyan. It looks like it'd be called "Saiyan God", but it could have got the title "Super Saiyan God" because they never seen that form before back then, and "The legendary Super Saiyan" was probably a legend back then too, so they just called it "Super Saiyan God" as they thought that was what it truly was. Now If a the ritual is done with a bunch of Super Saiyan's it might be a lot stronger, and grant the user the ability to absorb the ki?

[Hero]

So while I was at work today, I managed to do a re-watch of Battle of Gods (the extended edition, and this was actually the first time I'd ever watched that version subbed) as well as Resurrection 'F' (first time watching it subbed as well), and something from towards the end of the first film got me thinking about something as I moved on into the second. Keep in mind, this is all theory - there's absolutely nothing substantial to back me up here, but it does kind of make sense as far as I can tell.

Okay, so think back on the story we're told about the original Super Saiyan God. He was a good Saiyan who, along with his fellow comrades, was able to fight against the much stronger evil Saiyans for a time by pooling their power together into himself, and giving him a never before seen form. The power went away too quickly however, and he (as well as the other good Saiyans presumably) were slaughtered, forgotten to history, and only the brutal nature of most Saiyans was remembered from then on. It's probably a pretty safe assumption that, outside of this original Saiyan achieving the Super Saiyan God form, the only other transformations going on were a bunch of Saiyans going Oozaru. At most, there was maybe one of the older Super Saiyans of legend around or something, but the form was not likely to be as widespread as it is now, since all the legends still refer to it as something that only happens to one Saiyan every thousand or so years.

Now jump forward to Goku achieving the form in Battle of Gods. Like with the previous user of the form, the power faded away fairly quickly, before he was able to win his fight. Unlike with the original user of the form though, the power didn't seem to actually fade away entirely - it stayed in Goku's body, with Beerus commenting that he seemed to have 'absorb' that power into his own.

So what makes Goku different from the original Super Saiyan God (other than that he's the main character who's going to get these kinds of thing to happen to him regardless)? He's also a Super Saiyan, something that the original (And in-so-far as we are told, the only other) Super Saiyan God was almost certainly not. Goku is likely the very first Saiyan to ever be both a Super Saiyan and a Super Saiyan God. My theory is that this is what made the power not leave Goku entirely like it should have - something about the Super Saiyan power he had within hooked on to the similar and yet different Super Saiyan God power, and kept it around, albeit leaving Goku to learn how to utilize it on his own (something he presumably learns, alongside Vegeta, while training with Whis). It is from this that the next form, a Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God (aka Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, or 'Super Saiyan Blue') is born, making Goku and Vegeta both to be literally the first instances of this having ever happened.

So what do you guys think? Does this idea hold any merit at all, or am I way off base here?

That is interesting, and it kinda makes sense with the movie too because the way Beerus talks it implies that not everyone can absorb God ki. You need to be mentally and physically tough enough. This is why I don't think Gohan, Goten and Trunks can absorb it. They just don't have the warrior spirit of Goku and Vegeta. That's why I disagree with your theory, though, because it just seems to easy that all you need to absorb God ki is to be SSJ. Beerus calls Goku a true genius to be able to absorb it and even though Gohan is my favorite character he's not a genius when it comes to fighting.

I do agree that Goku and Vegeta are the first to go SSB though. Vegeta is also the first person probably to use the SSJ grades.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Beerus called Goku a genius for being able to absorb the power of SSG, and that he also said that he absorbed the power through their fight, so I don't think it was just because he was a Super Saiyan. I think the fact that God Goku fought with someone on his level, unlike the previous God who fought a bunch of weak Oozarus, worked like training for him, as the fight pushed his body to their limits, which is how Goku made God's power his own.

[Marlowe89]

I'm with DBZGTKOSDH on this one. Absorbing the power after the transformation's expiration was implied to be something that not just any Saiyan could do, even if the previous guy could access Super Saiyan -- it's more just the result of Goku's natural talent.

I do agree with the notion that Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God have a stronger connection than some people are willing to admit, though. Both forms can only be triggered by those with a pure heart, and the ritual for SSG even involves first-stage Super Saiyans (at least in Goku's case). This is speculation on my part, but if we're to believe that the Super Saiyan God myth preceded the Super Saiyan legend, I think it's entirely plausible that the golden Super Saiyan form we're familiar with actually came about as some sort of weaker imitation of the "original" Super Saiyan God.

[Darkprince410]

I'm with DBZGTKOSDH on this one. Absorbing the power after the transformation's expiration was implied to be something that not just any Saiyan could do, even if the previous guy could access Super Saiyan -- it's more just the result of Goku's natural talent.

To be fair, Beerus, up until just earlier that day, didn't even know about Super Saiya-jin in general, and his comment to Goku in Super about how Goku didn't lose his god power even when he fell out of the transformation indicates he was likely just taking a guess, rather than stating things as absolute fact.

Now, I'm not saying that there actually is problem with Beerus's comment and that Goku's retention of his god power was due to him having been a Super Saiya-jin just simply that I wouldn't consider Beerus's comments on how it happened as being 100% reliable given his clear lack of expertise on the matter.

[Marlowe89]

To be fair, Beerus, up until just earlier that day, didn't even know about Super Saiya-jin in general, and his comment to Goku in Super about how Goku didn't lose his god power even when he fell out of the transformation indicates he was likely just taking a guess, rather than stating things as absolute fact.

Now, I'm not saying that there actually is problem with Beerus's comment and that Goku's retention of his god power was due to him having been a Super Saiya-jin just simply that I wouldn't consider Beerus's comments on how it happened as being 100% reliable given his clear lack of expertise on the matter.

Technically true, but I'm looking at this more from the out-of-universe perspective of writer to viewer rather than of Beerus to Goku. More accurately, I don't see an authorial point of inserting such a clear implication into the dialogue it if it wasn't true -- otherwise it would potentially lead to a lot of confusion on the viewer's part.

But like you said, Beerus being wrong is certainly a possibility.

[Blackstripe]

We really need to merge some of these threads together. No offense to the OP, but there's a fair number of threads covering this general topic popping up right now.