Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
So there have already been people who quit watching the series for various reasons. They don't like the filler in the anime, they think the series should have ended after Freeza, they didn't like the Buu saga, they hate GT, etc.
As someone who watched the entire series, what would make you swear off the new series?
1. Character regression. Vegeta turning evil again on his own free-will, showing no concern for his family or the Earth.
2. Illogical plotholes or poor writing decisions like GT is filled with. If Super goes this route I am gone.
3. Repetitive plotlines. I don't need to see the same story I've already seen with slight alterations.
4. Vegeta revealing he actually has a crush on Goku.
The funny thing about people 'quitting' the franchise though is just how often they still pop up to make their voices heard...hmm...
I'm not really sure what it would take to make me swear off the series. I mean, going forward, that is. I don't see how anything new we get now would actually completely ruin the old stuff for anyone, since one could easily just ignore the new stuff and still have the old to enjoy no matter what. I've never understood how something can be 'ruined forever'.
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Rape scenes, "edgy" political commentary, sex trafficking, pro-discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, characters who act like they do on say, "Billions" (a new show coming out)...basically the kind of stuff that would make Akira cry if it was ever forced into his show.
Last edited by Fionordequester on Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
If I can stick around after F, I think I can handle anything.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
There's nothing that will just instantaneously make me swear off the series, but Super's writing decisions and concepts have gradually made me lose interest. I don't know how much longer I'll endure if the Uni 6 arc doesn't improve things.
Whereas GT bored me to tears, Super just flat out makes me cringe every episode. =/
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
precita wrote:So there have already been people who quit watching the series for various reasons. They don't like the filler in the anime, they think the series should have ended after Freeza, they didn't like the Buu saga, they hate GT, etc.
As someone who watched the entire series, what would make you swear off the new series?
1. Character regression. Vegeta turning evil again on his own free-will, showing no concern for his family or the Earth.
2. Illogical plotholes or poor writing decisions like GT is filled with. If Super goes this route I am gone.
3. Repetitive plotlines. I don't need to see the same story I've already seen with slight alterations.
4. Vegeta revealing he actually has a crush on Goku.
What about you guys?
Too late...
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Fionordequester wrote:Rape scenes, "edgy" political commentary, sex trafficking, pro-discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, characters who act like they do on say, "Billions" (a new show coming out)...basically the kind of stuff that would make Akira cry if it was ever forced into his show.
Oh yeah, the show getting "too adult" with rape, pedophilia, sex crimes, etc...would make me instantly drop it.
Thankfully there's no chance of any of that happening. All the sexual humor in the original Dragonball was always light hearted and played for laughs.
It would be hard for me to swear off the series, because I don't "hate" anything from the main series or even GT. Dragon Ball is simply a series that I enjoy, even if it isn't always perfect. Toei and Toriyama would have to mess up pretty badly for me to give up on the franchise. That being said, it could be possible.
1. Please don't make an "Evil Goku" or something like that in the U6 arc. I don't want a Dragon Ball Multiverse type story in Super. I really don't. An Evil Goku would add nothing of value other than being silly fan service, in my opinion.
2. I really hope that we get a villain or group of villains who actually pose a threat. FnF was fun and all, but Freeza was a joke for the most part and there was absolutely zero tension in the film. I don't know how enjoyable it will be if Goku and Vegeta treat future bad guys like they did Freeza.
3. It won't turn me away from the series, but if we don't see Beerus and Whis fight seriously at least once, I'm going to be fairly disappointed. That really needs to happen.
4. Yeah, I don't want recycled plot either. This is a great chance to do something new with this franchise. As much as some people wish that it was, Super is simply different than Dragon Ball Z and I'm glad for that. It should still try to be as good of course, but we have plenty of material to enjoy from Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Super is Far, FAR from perfect or even great so far, but I hope they don't give in to the demands of fanboys and try to appease everyone by rehashing formulas from Z (like how FnF was basically an older DBZ movie, except it was Toriyama's story). I want new territory dangit! We have a whole other universe here. Let's utilize it.
If I'm being totally honest though, I'd probably still watch the series no matter what. I don't think I have any shame when it comes to enjoying Dragon Ball.
Last edited by Wezenheim on Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The series as a whole? As in everything that had came before? Nothing. I'm sat watching the Buu arc right now and whatever my opinion of anything in the future Dragon Ball related, it can't spoil that work. Everything from the manga from Dragon Ball, right the way through to the end of Z is golden to me and nothing could change that.
Could there be plotlines that I don't like in Super? For sure. We know so little about what's to come still - but I mean, the Super Dragon Balls thing sounds a bit iffy. From what we've heard (pretty much nothing but...), it reminded me a little of the black star Dragon Balls...but I'll go with it and see where it takes us. At first I thought blue hair was ridiculous, but they somehow made it work for me. I really like that form now. Same with Golden Freeza, it grew on me very quickly.
If they introduced an Evil Goku... I would probably be saying "seriously? This is ridiculous." but I'd still watch it just because it's Dragon Ball.
I was able to handle Vegeta becoming a SSJ4 through a fucking machine, so I don't think there's any writing decision that could swear me off the series.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
If the writing decision made the series like Teen Titans Go and Sonic Boom. That kind of writing is enough to make me swear off all current material. I can't swear off the franchise, but that would make me no longer give a shit or tune in any more if Dragon Ball was written that poorly.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:If the writing decision made the series like Teen Titans Go and Sonic Boom. That kind of writing is enough to make me swear off all current material. I can't swear off the franchise, but that would make me no longer give a shit or tune in any more if Dragon Ball was written that poorly.
TTG! and Sonic Boom are great and the latter is miles miles miles better than the crap that was Sonic X.
dbzfan7 wrote:If the writing decision made the series like Teen Titans Go and Sonic Boom. That kind of writing is enough to make me swear off all current material. I can't swear off the franchise, but that would make me no longer give a shit or tune in any more if Dragon Ball was written that poorly.
TTG! and Sonic Boom are great and the latter is miles miles miles better than the crap that was Sonic X.
Cool you have an opinion. Let's not force that on me. I think they are absolute garbage tripe, and I don't want Dragon Ball to ever be like them. That's my opinion that's relevant to this topic as I describe what would make me swear off the series. You jumping to the defence of those shows and claiming they are great has nothing to do with this topic at all. That's just fanboyism considering the topic at hand.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Nothing would ever stop me from liking and watching the old stuff, but I guess it's possible that something could happen that would prevent me from enjoying Super. It would have to be something BIG, though, like major, major character regression or a drastic change in mood.
Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.
Fionordequester wrote:Rape scenes, "edgy" political commentary, sex trafficking, pro-discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, characters who act like they do on say, "Billions" (a new show coming out)...basically the kind of stuff that would make Akira cry if it was ever forced into his show.
Oh yeah, the show getting "too adult" with rape, pedophilia, sex crimes, etc...would make me instantly drop it.
Thankfully there's no chance of any of that happening. All the sexual humor in the original Dragonball was always light hearted and played for laughs.
Didn't we almost get something like this in Dragonball, with the two RRA soldiers and Bulma?
precita wrote:Oh yeah, the show getting "too adult" with rape, pedophilia, sex crimes, etc...would make me instantly drop it.
Thankfully there's no chance of any of that happening. All the sexual humor in the original Dragonball was always light hearted and played for laughs.
Didn't we almost get something like this in Dragonball, with the two RRA soldiers and Bulma?
I'd assume the difference though is that it was stopped before anything actually happened, and the fact that Bulma, while young, is not a child there - at least not at the age to fit the strictest definition of 'pedophilia'.
AniManga Travelogue - Currently Reviewing: Dragon Ball (Z) Twitter
Switch Friend Code: SW-0745-6427-7791 (let's play some Dragon Ball: The Breakers!)
precita wrote:Oh yeah, the show getting "too adult" with rape, pedophilia, sex crimes, etc...would make me instantly drop it.
Thankfully there's no chance of any of that happening. All the sexual humor in the original Dragonball was always light hearted and played for laughs.
Didn't we almost get something like this in Dragonball, with the two RRA soldiers and Bulma?
I'd assume the difference though is that it was stopped before anything actually happened, and the fact that Bulma, while young, is not a child there - at least not at the age to fit the strictest definition of 'pedophilia'.
Wasn't Bulma also 16? If I remember right, that's also the age of consent in Japan. So legally Bulma would be an adult.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
"My dear friend, how can I make this even more painful for you? I could crush your hands, rip off both of your ears, or maybe I'll just smash in your tiny little cranium. Ehehehehehehehe."
—Frieza
