Do we expect too much from Super?

[Hellspawn28]

Up until now, it really hasn't. They at least tried to hold some plot continuity with GT.

GT also used its supporting characters a lot better than Super has so far.

That's not saying much since most people in GT did end up jobbing like Uub. Gohan and Goten where mainly used to be taken over by Bebi and use as his body guards when he took over Vegeta. They didn't even show up to fight in the Shadow Dragon arc until the very end. It was mainly Goku and Vegeta fighting Super Yi Xing Long while Goku and Pan did the rest of the Shadow Dragon fighting.

[sintzu]

That's not saying much since most people in GT did end up jobbing like Uub. Gohan and Goten where mainly used to be taken over by Bebi and use as his body guards when he took over Vegeta. They didn't even show up to fight in the Shadow Dragon arc until the very end. It was mainly Goku and Vegeta fighting Super Yi Xing Long while Goku and Pan did the rest of the Shadow Dragon fighting.

I know it isn't much but it's more than what Super's doing with them.

Gohan didn't even make a cameo during the U6 tournament.

[Lord Beerus]

That's not saying much since most people in GT did end up jobbing like Uub. Gohan and Goten where mainly used to be taken over by Bebi and use as his body guards when he took over Vegeta. They didn't even show up to fight in the Shadow Dragon arc until the very end. It was mainly Goku and Vegeta fighting Super Yi Xing Long while Goku and Pan did the rest of the Shadow Dragon fighting.

I know it isn't much but it's more than what Super's doing with them.

Gohan didn't even make a cameo during the U6 tournament.

But Oob is just a baby in Super. There's not much he can do.

The treatment of the supporting cast has been GT and Super has been sub par in several areas, but Super still has a long way to go, so I think we should wait and see how things progress. And for what it's worth, Super has shown several glimpses that the show can have a proper ensemble cast. Super had Roshi, Tien and Krillin on the front line as they easily wasted Freeza's soldiers, Gotenks has been more prominent and Jaco has been integral to the plot. Hell, Super even had a whole episode where Oolong was pretty much the central character. That never happened even in DBZ. So while Super hasn't been utilising the entire cast at the best of its own ability, it has been willing to to throw a bone at characters that have been forgotten since even the days of Z. That is something that Super has over GT in regards to handling the supporting cast.

[dbzfan7]

That's not saying much since most people in GT did end up jobbing like Uub. Gohan and Goten where mainly used to be taken over by Bebi and use as his body guards when he took over Vegeta. They didn't even show up to fight in the Shadow Dragon arc until the very end. It was mainly Goku and Vegeta fighting Super Yi Xing Long while Goku and Pan did the rest of the Shadow Dragon fighting.

I know it isn't much but it's more than what Super's doing with them.

Gohan didn't even make a cameo during the U6 tournament.

But Oob is just a baby in Super. There's not much he can do.

The treatment of the supporting cast has been GT and Super has been sub par in several areas, but Super still has a long way to go, so I think we should wait and see how things progress. And for what it's worth, Super has shown several glimpses that the show can have a proper ensemble cast. Super had Roshi, Tien and Krillin on the front line as they easily wasted Freeza's soldiers, Gotenks has been more prominent and Jaco has been integral to the plot. Hell, Super even had a whole episode where Oolong was pretty much the central character. That never happened even in DBZ. So while Super hasn't been utilising the entire cast at the best of its own ability, it has been willing to to throw a bone at characters that have been forgotten since even the days of Z. That is something that Super has over GT in regards to handling the supporting cast.

I give the point to Super of course for supporting 4 characters instead of 1. Otherwise....it slightly does better outside that. I give the Super 17 arc the better point than ROF when it came to the mook rush. Least there we saw familiar faces who show how far our heroes have progressed. Also some cool nostalgic cameos. In F, it's mooks whom literally the saiyan arc cast could dispatch of easily. Literally just Yakon or 19 from the Super 17 arc could crush that army outside of Tagoma. Minus more points for that stupid Krillin garbage. I see the effort to try and add some charactertization, but it was right off the mark on how that was handled. It's even more lame when Freeza himself knows it's a waste of time.

Of course Super still wins overall as it's still got 4-1, and those 2 are interesting characters who are held back actually for their strength. That actually kinda is an odd phenomenon. Beerus and Whis hold back the story because they're so strong. I want to see more of them, but they're so good they'd end the conflict. It's such a shame.

[precita]

If the upcoming Trunks arc isn't good then Super is officially a lost cause.

I prefer the Beerus movie and Freeza movie over their anime adaptions (with the exception of a few minor things the anime did slightly better), the filler is good for the most part, and the Champa tournament was average with some good moments sprinkled in.

Goku/Vegeta hogging the spotlight is what's dragging down the series. Really puts into perspective the reason DBZ never got stale is because the focus constantly shifted to different characters.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku/Vegeta hogging the spotlight is what's dragging down the series. Really puts into perspective the reason DBZ never got stale is because the focus constantly shifted to different characters.

Saiyan's hogging the spotlight? That sounds no different to what happened in DBZ.

[Daisetsu]

At least in GT felt lasting as he [Piccolo] had to stay dead for the Black Star Dragon Balls to remain inert.

You know, until he was brought back to life by going to Hell. Seriously, that made his sacrifice completely meaningless.

[dbzfan7]

At least in GT felt lasting as he [Piccolo] had to stay dead for the Black Star Dragon Balls to remain inert.

You know, until he was brought back to life by going to Hell. Seriously, that made his sacrifice completely meaningless.

But he wasn't brought back to life. People in hell for some reason didn't have halo's. Freeza and Cell didn't, and they were dead.

[ekrolo2]

At least in GT felt lasting as he [Piccolo] had to stay dead for the Black Star Dragon Balls to remain inert.

You know, until he was brought back to life by going to Hell. Seriously, that made his sacrifice completely meaningless.

He wasn't revived as evidenced by him still being stuck in the afterlife. Plus him going to hell is what allows him and Dende to get Goku back to Earth to fight Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons. So yeah, not meaningless. Him dying in Super IS the textbook definition of meaningless.

And no, Piccolo doesn't need to die for Gohan to start training again. That whole "development" is forced as fuck when any thinking human being would after the Boo arc do that anyway. Especially Gohan who, if he kept his training, probably would've been able to resolve the whole debacle without things escalating to the quagmire that they did.

[Hellspawn28]

At least in GT felt lasting as he [Piccolo] had to stay dead for the Black Star Dragon Balls to remain inert.

You know, until he was brought back to life by going to Hell. Seriously, that made his sacrifice completely meaningless.

He wasn't revived as evidenced by him still being stuck in the afterlife. Plus him going to hell is what allows him and Dende to get Goku back to Earth to fight Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons. So yeah, not meaningless. Him dying in Super IS the textbook definition of meaningless.

Problem with Piccolo in Hell was that it was mainly a plot device for Goku to get out of Hell when Goku had other ways to easily get out. He could have ask Kibitoshin to get him out or turn SSj4 to teleported out. We saw Goku teleported out of Hell before. Having Piccolo stay in Hell forever seems like a bad way to end his character. I think him living on the Grand Kai Planet with the other fighters like Paikuhan would be a better way to end his character in my opinion.

I do agree that Piccolo's death in GT was better than his death in Super, however it did lack build up. Not to mention Piccolo said the Black Star Dragon Balls would turn into stone if he dies. If the Black Star Dragon Balls are gone after Piccolo's death because they are link with then why can't Piccolo just deactivate the Black Star Dragon Balls? If they die with him, he should able to deactivate them as well. So Piccolo didn't need to die and still stay on Earth with everyone else.

[dbzfan7]

Problem with Piccolo in Hell was that it was mainly a plot device for Goku to get out of Hell when Goku had other ways to easily get out. He could have ask Kibitoshin to get him out or turn SSj4 to teleported out. We saw Goku teleported out of Hell before. Having Piccolo stay in Hell forever seems like a bad way to end his character. I think him living on the Grand Kai Planet with the other fighters like Paikuhan would be a better way to end his character in my opinion.

I do agree that Piccolo's death in GT was better than his death in Super, however it did lack build up. Not to mention Piccolo said the Black Star Dragon Balls would turn into stone if he dies. If the Black Star Dragon Balls are gone after Piccolo's death because they are link with then why can't Piccolo just deactivate the Black Star Dragon Balls? If they die with him, he should able to deactivate them as well. So Piccolo didn't need to die and still stay on Earth with everyone else.

I'm pretty sure if he could deactivate the Black star balls, he would have. He's not the exactly the same person who made them. About hell I think it had to do with the distortions probably screwing up the whole teleporting thing. I think we have a thread by Zephyr that covered GT's supposed errors. I don't think it has any bearing on this thread, which baffles me how it keeps coming up.

[ekrolo2]

You know, until he was brought back to life by going to Hell. Seriously, that made his sacrifice completely meaningless.

He wasn't revived as evidenced by him still being stuck in the afterlife. Plus him going to hell is what allows him and Dende to get Goku back to Earth to fight Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons. So yeah, not meaningless. Him dying in Super IS the textbook definition of meaningless.

Problem with Piccolo in Hell was that it was mainly a plot device for Goku to get out of Hell when Goku had other ways to easily get out. He could have ask Kibitoshin to get him out or turn SSj4 to teleported out. We saw Goku teleported out of Hell before. Having Piccolo stay in Hell forever seems like a bad way to end his character. I think him living on the Grand Kai Planet with the other fighters like Paikuhan would be a better way to end his character in my opinion.

I do agree that Piccolo's death in GT was better than his death in Super, however it did lack build up. Not to mention Piccolo said the Black Star Dragon Balls would turn into stone if he dies. If the Black Star Dragon Balls are gone after Piccolo's death because they are link with then why can't Piccolo just deactivate the Black Star Dragon Balls? If they die with him, he should able to deactivate them as well. So Piccolo didn't need to die and still stay on Earth with everyone else.

I interpret this as a fail-safe method to keep the Black Star Balls from ever being used again. If Piccolo simply de-activated them, there's a very strong possibility a future threat could come and strong arm him into re-activating them, once again putting the planet at risk. At least this way they simply can't be brought back, plus Piccolo has long since been left in the dust so it's not like the Earth is losing any kind of relevant defender from its ranks. If they ever need his advice, Goku can simply teleport there or ask King Kai to do it.

The activation thing also hinges on Piccolo even being able to do it. Remember, when Goku asks him if he can defuse in the Cell Arc, Piccolo says no and that a new guardian of Earth is required. This implies that Piccolo, while still tied to the Black Star Balls by virtue of being essentially the Nameless Namek restored, doesn't have the Dragon clan abilities concerning Dragon Balls. If he did, there would be no need for Dende.

[HybridSaiyan]

I only expect something better than this since it's 2016! I have high hopes that Super will eventually delivery epicness like this again!

[spoiler]









[/spoiler]

Maybe one day Super!

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I only expect something better than this since it's 2016! I have high hopes that Super will eventually delivery epicness like this again!

Art does not improved over time, it never worked like that.

[Alruneia]

I only expect something better than this since it's 2016!

I'm just gonna tell you this right away: Never use the current year as an argument. The current year is not a reason for something to be better than something else. As Neo-Makaiōshin says, art doesn't work like that.

[HybridSaiyan]

I only expect something better than this since it's 2016!

I'm just gonna tell you this right away: Never use the current year as an argument. The current year is not a reason for something to be better than something else. As Neo-Makaiōshin says, art doesn't work like that.

I understand that. You'd just expect things to rise up again, that's basically what I'm trying to get at. I expect too much from Super, which is likely why I don't enjoy it as much as I should.

I want to feel those chills again with a new experience, rather than watching all the old Z scenes on Youtube for thousands of times.

[sintzu]

I only expect something better than this since it's 2016!

I have high hopes that Super will eventually delivery epicness like this again!

[spoiler]









[/spoiler]

Maybe one day Super!

We're 50 episodes in and still waiting, at this point it's safe to say it won't happen, Super will more than likely remain this way till it's finished.

It never will.

[HybridSaiyan]

I only expect something better than this since it's 2016!

I have high hopes that Super will eventually delivery epicness like this again!

[spoiler]









[/spoiler]

Maybe one day Super!

We're 50 episodes in and still waiting, at this point it's safe to say it won't happen, Super will more than likely remain this way till it's finished.

It never will.

Our only hope is a third movie! following the story of Universe 6 and the Evil Goku arc.

Doesn't it make you sad, we'll never ever see the beautiful and gloryness art and animation of Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon again? </3 That mere thought makes me upset as hell.

[sintzu]

I expect too much from Super.

Expecting a successor to at least be as good as its 25+ years old predecessor is not expecting too much.

Art does not improved over time, it never worked like that.

When a new movie comes out don't you expect it to have better affects than movies released 10 years ago ?

When a new phone is released don't you expect it to have better features than a 10 year old phone ?

When you a new camera is released don't you expect it to be clearer than a 20 year old camera ?

When a new video game is released don't you expect it to improve on what came before it and fix the previous' problems ?

Why can Super get away with being mediocre and lazy while everything else can't ?

Our only hope is a third movie! following the story of Universe 6 and the Evil Goku arc.

Doesn't it make you sad, we'll never ever see the beautiful and gloryness art and animation of Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon again? </3 That mere thought makes me upset as hell.

Or movies that adapt those arcs.

The more I see Super the more I appreciate the work that went into the old material (that includes GT as well) and the more I appreciate its writing, especially Goku's.

[Shuby]

I expect too much from Super.

Expecting a successor to at least be as good as its 25+ years old predecessor is not expecting too much.

Art does not improved over time, it never worked like that.

When a new movie comes out don't you expect it to have better affects than movies released 10 years ago ?

When a new phone is released don't you expect it to have better features than a 10 year old phone ?

When you a new camera is released don't you expect it to be clearer than a 20 year old camera ?

When a new video game is released don't you expect it to improve on what came before it and fix the previous' problems ?

Why can Super get away with being mediocre and lazy while everything else can't ?

Our only hope is a third movie! following the story of Universe 6 and the Evil Goku arc.

Doesn't it make you sad, we'll never ever see the beautiful and gloryness art and animation of Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon again? </3 That mere thought makes me upset as hell.

Or movies that adapt those arcs.

The more I see Super the more I appreciate the work that went into the old material (that includes GT as well) and the more I appreciate its writing, especially Goku's.

Do i expect this to be better? Of course especially how famous Z and how well the 2 movies did you would expect Toei to invest more money and time into this project. The fact that Super looks and feels worse than Z says a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ffdeJ77Bo

I think this guy nailed it when it comes to what is wrong with Super , everyone should watch this well put together review.