Japanese Kai underrated?

[Bansho64]

It seems that when it comes to Kai many people only acknowledge the Funimation dub and usually go to the original Z for japanese viewing. I feel that many people forget it most of the time. Underrated perhaps. Tell me how you guys see this.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well, I agree with your assessment about how most fans feel, and quite frankly, I also agree that the original Japanese version of Kai is not much to write home about.

Let me be clear, the Japanese version of Kai is not bad by any means (at least in my opinion). In fact, I might have had a higher opinion of it had the Japanese version of DBZ not already existed. That's not the case, though. Kai was already done before in the form of DBZ and is superior on pretty much every level. Better music, better animation (no sticks-out-like-a-sore-thumb re-drawing), and better acting. The Japanese cast for Kai had a bit of a "been there, done that" feeling in their delivery, which is completely understandable considering that they have been there and they have done that (especially if you consider the seemingly infinite number of times they've re-enacted certain scenes through the various cut-scenes we've seen in the video games). It's just a repeat of stuff we saw before, but not as good this time around.

To be quite frank, I was surprised that people were even excited about Kai when it was first announced. I would have had zero interest in Kai until a thought occurred to me one day: "Wait a minute........could FUNimation technically.....dub this?"

For me, Kai is an English-language show. Yes, I know it's not the original language, but I've come to think of it as an English-language show because that's where we get the genuinely new stuff. Better acting, better writing, better direction, and in some cases better casting. It's a completely different experience from watching the English dub of DBZ which--save a select few scenes and episodes here and there--doesn't really stand the test of time. There's no "been there, done that" feeling in the delivery of the English cast. Quite the contrary, there's a palpable enthusiasm, likely because the creative people behind the dub had been itching for an opportunity to redeem themselves and finally got it.

So, is the original Japanese version of Kai bad? Not at all. However, when a better option (DBZ) exists, there's just not much reason to get excited about a version that's exactly the same as what came before, just not quite as good.

[Bansho64]

I agree that the original Z is better but Kai has some pretty good scenes also. Gohans transformation to Super Saiyan 2 was very good IMO and Gokus transformation to Super Saiyan 3 wasn't half bad either.

[Pokewhiz7]

So, is the original Japanese version of Kai bad? Not at all. However, when a better option (DBZ) exists, there's just not much reason to get excited about a version that's exactly the same as what came before, just not quite as good.

Exactly the same, other than lacking an at times nut-crunchingly slow pacing? Certain parts of the original Z are essentially unwatchable in any language, as far as I am concerned.

[Bansho64]

So, is the original Japanese version of Kai bad? Not at all. However, when a better option (DBZ) exists, there's just not much reason to get excited about a version that's exactly the same as what came before, just not quite as good.

Exactly the same, other than lacking an at times nut-crunchingly slow pacing? Certain parts of the original Z are essentially unwatchable in any language, as far as I am concerned.

Can you give some examples?

[TheBlackPaladin]

So, is the original Japanese version of Kai bad? Not at all. However, when a better option (DBZ) exists, there's just not much reason to get excited about a version that's exactly the same as what came before, just not quite as good.

Exactly the same, other than lacking an at times nut-crunchingly slow pacing? Certain parts of the original Z are essentially unwatchable in any language, as far as I am concerned.

I would agree with that, for certain parts. The filler arc that I personally hated the most--the "Fake Namek" arc--was among the arcs to be cut for Kai, and I have no complaints whatsoever about that. I did not enjoy that arc at all.

That's one of the few examples I can name, though. I miss the majority of the filler that was cut. So occasionally better pacing, in my opinion, does not make up for Kai's faults...and this before we've even gotten to the Buu arc which, on top of the faults I've previously talked about, now has a Matrix-like green tint and a shockingly low-budget musical score. Ideally, what I would have wanted more than anything would be for FUNimation to have just re-dubbed DBZ with the care they've shown with the Kai dub, but they're not going to do that (nor do I blame them, considering how much such an undertaking would cost).

[Pokewhiz7]

So, is the original Japanese version of Kai bad? Not at all. However, when a better option (DBZ) exists, there's just not much reason to get excited about a version that's exactly the same as what came before, just not quite as good.

Exactly the same, other than lacking an at times nut-crunchingly slow pacing? Certain parts of the original Z are essentially unwatchable in any language, as far as I am concerned.

Can you give some examples?

The Freeza fight is the most infamous example. Counting the fight as "the time between Goku's revival on Namek until the explosion of Namek", it's 22 (episode 85 up through and including episode 106) episodes long in DBZ and 13 episodes long in Kai (episode 41 up through and including episode 53). If we're calling each episode roughly 20 minutes, it's a difference of 3 hours. As far as I can tell, there were no episodes of purely-unrelated plots in Z over that timespan. Maybe people don't notice it because they don't usually watch the whole fight in one sitting, but you could watch the Kai version, randomly stop and watch a longer-than-average movie in between, and still finish the fight before somebody who is watching the Z version without interruption.

Stuff like fake Namek which is entirely self-contained is not an issue. Those can easily be skipped. The biggest improvement of Kai over Z is the snipping of content that is intertwined in the main plot. There is no way to skip or fast-forward through the DBZ Freeza fight and still have a coherent, polished experience. Not to say that Kai was always flawlessly edited (Kuririn randomly jumping to Bulma's side in the first episode), but it was mostly a continuously enjoyable experience. Even just extra reaction shots and time spent powering up add up fast. I don't think anybody really cares about episodes which contain only an unrelated filler plot, like Gohan and the robot or Garlic Jr.

[Darkton]

The Freeza fight is the most infamous example. Counting the fight as "the time between Goku's revival on Namek until the explosion of Namek", it's 22 (episode 85 up through and including episode 106) episodes long in DBZ and 13 episodes long in Kai (episode 41 up through and including episode 53). If we're calling each episode roughly 20 minutes, it's a difference of 3 hours. As far as I can tell, there were no episodes of purely-unrelated plots in Z over that timespan. Maybe people don't notice it because they don't usually watch the whole fight in one sitting, but you could watch the Kai version, randomly stop and watch a longer-than-average movie in between, and still finish the fight before somebody who is watching the Z version without interruption.

Stuff like fake Namek which is entirely self-contained is not an issue. Those can easily be skipped. The biggest improvement of Kai over Z is the snipping of content that is intertwined in the main plot. There is no way to skip or fast-forward through the DBZ Freeza fight and still have a coherent, polished experience. Not to say that Kai was always flawlessly edited (Kuririn randomly jumping to Bulma's side in the first episode), but it was mostly a continuously enjoyable experience. Even just extra reaction shots and time spent powering up add up fast. I don't think anybody really cares about episodes which contain only an unrelated filler plot, like Gohan and the robot or Garlic Jr.

Hit the nail on the head. When the filler makes up its own material, it can usually be pretty fun, like with Gohan's training. However, when they have to sandwich the filler in between canon content, you get stuff like Fake Namek being used to pad out Vegeta's recovery, reaction shots from far away places to sell the villain of the week, and long moments spent with nothing happening at all. That alone makes Kai worthwhile viewing in any language.

[Kuririn Fan]

It's not underrated, more unnecessary & pointless, Z was already absolute perfection. The only good thing about Kai is english dub, but a lot of fans can't let go of faulconer and terrible script, making Kai a complete waste of time.

[Bagginses]

It's not underrated, more unnecessary & pointless, Z was already absolute perfection. The only good thing about Kai is english dub, but a lot of fans can't let go of faulconer and terrible script, making Kai a complete waste of time.

I certainly don't think that Z was ''absolute perfection'', and I am sure others would also agree. It's a very flawed anime and adaptation. If there is any part of Dragon Ball that is anywhere close to ''perfect'', it would only be the original manga. But even that is a stretch.

Point is, Z had some serious pacing issues (caused by filler, of course) and some chunks of it are almost unwatchable. Kai, while still maybe not the ''Toriyama's cut'' it should have been, at least fixes some of that unbearable filler (by cutting it out, of course).

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Z by any means. I just think it's outdated and that Kai is an improvement over it most of the time (at least, storytelling/narratively-wise).

Kinda like ''The Phantom Edit'' of ''Star Wars: The Phantom Menace'' (if you don't know what I mean, Google it). It just cuts the crap and leaves only the good/strong parts of the story.

[Kuririn Fan]

I was talking about voice acting, jpn Z is legendary in that regard. And Kai is faaar from perfect, the Saiyan Arc cuts out a lot of stuff (anime version of that arc is superior to the manga) and on the other hand you got the mess that is Boo Kai.

[ShaneisMC]

I think English Kai and Original Japanese are both fantastic. They of course each have their faults but their good points far outweigh the bad ones. Japanese Kai I think is "fine". I wouldnt call it bad by any means but I dont see too much reason to watch Kai in Japanese when I could just watch my Dragon Boxes instead. Only the Original English is the one that obviously is simply utterly abysmal especially at this point. I refuse to watch it. I just cant do it.

[Cipher]

I only ever watch Kai (other than spot-checking out of curiosity) in Japanese. It ... is what it is. The better recordings are nice, even if the performances are uuuusually a little more energetic in the original, and it presents a vastly more tolerable Namek arc -- one that's actually quite good. The rest of the series is nice for speedier viewings, but the original Z is definitely a better production.

It's not underrated, more unnecessary & pointless, Z was already absolute perfection.

Z's Namek arc is mind-blowingly awful. I've actually been watching Kai through again, and it's shocking to me, particularly in this arc, to realize how many episodes of Z have been cut at this point (I'm at the Ginyu material). You'd never notice anything was missing.

[Kuririn Fan]

I was talking about the voice acting, not the filler. But, i like the filler, it improved the Saiyan arc + Kikuchi is a legend = Z > Kai.

[Bansho64]

I was talking about the voice acting, not the filler. But, i like the filler, it improved the Saiyan arc + Kikuchi is a legend = Z > Kai.

Kai had some pretty good moments too IMO.

[Bansho64]

I only ever watch Kai (other than spot-checking out of curiosity) in Japanese. It ... is what it is. The better recordings are nice, even if the performances are uuuusually a little more energetic in the original, and it presents a vastly more tolerable Namek arc -- one that's actually quite good. The rest of the series is nice for speedier viewings, but the original Z is definitely a better production.

It's not underrated, more unnecessary & pointless, Z was already absolute perfection.

Z's Namek arc is mind-blowingly awful. I've actually been watching Kai through again, and it's shocking to me, particularly in this arc, to realize how many episodes of Z have been cut at this point (I'm at the Ginyu material). You'd never notice anything was missing.

Exactly. The Namek arc in Kai is probably the definitive version of it for me. But I think the following ones were a little downgraded but still good. Wakamoto seemed a little out of it most of the time. It was a really unique take on the character of Cell.

[Bansho64]

Plus, the acting in Kai isn't always as "worn out" as people say it is. Many people praised Horikawa for his performance during Vegetas Sacrifice in the Boo arc. Nozawa did a really good job in the SS3 transformation. They even got some new actors who did pretty well. And it isn't just those instances in the show where the actors are good. I admit some of it is a bit lackluster in comparison to the original Z but not all of it is.

[DemonRin]

Gonna be honest, Kai in both Japanese and English has replaced Z as my go-to method for watching the "Z" portion of the series.

It's true that the acting is notably different, tho I'd argue not necessarily always "Worse". Horikawa's Vegeta in particular has a lot of stand out moments where I dare say he may have surpassed the original series (like both of his death scenes)

However, the pacing is what does it for me. I don't think ANY of Z is really paced spectacularly. Some parts feel better than others with Namek being a particular low-point, but it's all slightly lacking.

The fact that they could cut 195 episodes down to 98 for the original run of Kai and still have the story make PERFECT sense, is pretty telling about just how packed with padding the series can be at times.

The fact that this gave FUNimation an excuse to produce a competent Dub of this material is just icing on the cake. I've seen the Original Z in Japanese SO Many times, that it's genuinely wonderful to me that I can watch this show in English WITHOUT cringing every 5 seconds.

The fact that the picture quality isn't as good in Boo Kai, including cropping without a Home Video fix irks me a bit, not sure how I'll handle Boo arc in the future, but at moment, if I ever decide to re-watch the series, Kai is my default method.

[Kuririn Fan]

For me, Kai is a failed experiment.

[LuckyCat]

I prefer Japanese Kai because it's closer to the manga. If it weren't for the whole Yamamoto fiasco, I would consider Kai to be the definitive release of the Saiyan - Cell arcs.

That all said, Z has some indispensable moments and performances. I would definitely recommend it to any fan of DBKai, and vice-versa for Z fans to Kai.