Did Toriyama REALLY say this?

[Cure Dragon 255]

From Lord Beerus' sig

My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.

Its really interesting. And I love the thank you at the end.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

He's said similar things a couple of times. That one in particular is from the Super History Book interview.

[Vijay]

You know what I cannot stomach

DragonBall after all created Akira Toriyama. Dont get me wrong. I know Dr.Slump was smash hit in Japan. But I think DragonBall propelled him frm being yet another mangaka into legendary icon across globe.

He keeps sayin he forget & tries to forget abt DragonBall. Which I honestly feel...to be blunt, crap

Lets face it. He loves his work. Every panel, some even devoid of any drawings show Toriyama's concentrated soul in it. He revolutionized shounen demography with his creativity. Not talking about core Shounen themes (Nakama-tachi BS which has abused to death in Naruto, Bleach, OP, Fairu Tail etc)

His drawings are life-like & just like Tadayoshi Yammamuro/Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru said, you can literally get the "chi" of the characters drawn by AT

Another point which I really, really think commands respect is how Toriyama proved his mettle as great artist by constantly changing his artstyle.

Be it the rounded, chibi artsyle at 21st TB

or superiorly detailed, yet smooth over-arching style in Saiyan~Namek/pre-Frieza Arc

Or significantly sharp & angular artsyle in Android/Majin Buu Arc

Say whatever you want (including some blatant criticism him losing interest), but it takes guts, overwhelming dedication & skill to take-up the challenge & constantly "renew" yourself.

I'm personal fan of his sharper era & dare say none of shounen mangaka (Tite Kubo being an exception) comes close to Toriyama's eye for details. Esp during fluid fight scenes but Toriyama never sacrifices one aspect to comprise another. Ex: Super Vegeta's perfect body proportion even durin complex movements against Semi-Perfect Cell. Its visually appealin imo

With that beinv said, just how dafuq you can "forget" & suddenly start Supa?

There are DragonBall manga still being sold. DBZ Box Sets doin well. DBZ-related vids in Youtube hits million views & "fan-war" burning every sec of every day in the Comment Section. Hell, guys discussing abt Power Chains & forms of Majin Buu till this day in various Forums

You can thank fans. Sure. But at least try to put some effort into "rekindling" past DragonBall fire inside ya Toriyama-san.

Findin it terribly insultin when fans (worse, kids born 5 years ago) remembers more detail abt DragonBall than its original author does.

[VegettoEX]

Findin it terribly insultin when fans (worse, kids born 5 years ago) remembers more detail abt DragonBall than its original author does.

What do you do for a living, and do you remember every single minute detail spanning back 30 years about what you've done, how you've done it, and how it integrates into every single other thing you've done with your life?

Yes, it sure would be nice if every author remembered every detail about everything they've ever done. Maybe let's also take a step back to think about how insane that is in practice, though...?

[Vijay]

@ VegettoEX

His acheivements 30 years back is still felt today. DragonBall WAS his living. Think. He would've made significant amount of income via his contracts (Shueisha, TOEI Animations, Bird Studio) compared to any ordinary, blink-and-miss mangaka

Popular is a word. Beast is an emotion

DragonBall catapulted his legendary status by a long shot. And I wouldnt mind using "a man should never forget his roots" in this scenario.

Just like a basic cadaveric dissection for a cardiologist. A specialized surgeon still possesses required skills to perform as it was part of his life. It defined him. Regardless if it was a simple lecture taught to him in 3rd Semester of 2nd Year MBBS, completin his undergraduate & subsequent specialization still requires good surgeon to never forget his basics/fundamentals/roots

Now Toriyama isnt some random street-side artist making a living by selling drawings for 10 zeni. For him to forget anything & everything associated to DragonBall as it never integrates/applies to his daily-life over the past 30 years.

He may have been lying low for many years. Drawing manga/pursuing other hobbies at the pace he feels comfortable. But justifying his tendency to try to forget DragonBall, the essence which revolutionized Shounen, GateWay for anime in USA/UK & still a phenomenon worldwide isnt appropriate imo

[Luso Saiyan]

I'm sorry, but your comments only show immaturity, for lack of a better word. Its perfectly normal to forget what you've done over the course of your life, specially the minutae (which fans spend their lives focusing on). To call it an insult shows your lack of understanding about the meaning of the word itself, and more importantly, lack of overall rationale. He didn't forget the works he has done. But he probably forgot certain details that fans care about while at the same time remembers certain things that are irrelevant to most people. That's life, you'll learn that eventually.

[Vijay]

Yeah, its perfectly normal to brush-off posts using terms as "immaturity, rationale" and such

I refuse to drift this topic to Toriyama-bash thread. But I've more than sufficiently given points to back my statements to prevent my post frm being tagged as troll.

Its normal to forget things. You dont have to be an Alzhemier/Parkinson's patient, which is perfectly acceptable. We're humans

Its AT's confessions (not in 1. Not 2. But most of his interviews, some I read back then in Daizenshuu) about him forget/tryin to forget about DragonBall as much possible.

Its his choice. I get that.

As much I respect him being honest, its also cringe-worthy when you realize he is very well "out-of-form"

AT's been notoriously criticized to be someone who forgets a lot of stuff. Well, I beg to differ

Toriyama for the most part, loved his work & it shows. With Internet access at fingertips, its easy to sit-back. Fast Forward few DBZ episodes. Form your Power Chain & use fan-made digits/assumptions to back ur claim

Not back then (1992-1994). Toriyama for most part, was consistent in his work & its easy to see why

Just few panels & you can tell Super Vegeta > Semi Perfect Cell

Next, Toriyama seamlessly invoke Cell's exponential growth via just few panels & you could simulate the Power Chain lookin like this: Perfect Cell > Super Vegeta > Semi Perfect Cell

Fast Forward few chapters. Toriyama uses Goku as yardstick to gauge Gohan's true strength at Cell Games.

Kanzentai Seru > Furu Powa SSJ Goku > every Zetto Senshi, including F.Trunks, Veggie, Piccolo etc (implied, or shown with even performances frm both with Goku goin as far as using his iconic Shunkan Idou KHH)

Realistically, its: Heavily Suppressed Kanzentai Seru > FPSSJ Kid Gohan > FPSSJ Goku

Now, we know this Power Chain goes major shift with SSJ2 Kid Gohan, & subsequent Super Perfect Cell being top-tiers which leads to an overall:

SSJ2 Kid Gohan/SPC > Suppressed Perfect Cell > FPSSJ Kid Gohan > FPSSJ Goku > Super Vegeta > Semi Perfect Cell

Now this point gets noted several times in the Majin Buu Arc

Be it Vegeta scolding Teen Gohan for slacking in training, or him praising SSJ2 Goku for being much suoerior to Gohan "back then".

Which implies:

SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Kid Gohan (Cell Games) > SSJ2 Teen Gohan (Great Saiyaman/Buu Arc)

As you can see, Toriyama isnt as "forgetful" as you think. His consistency is often under-appreciated & its alarming to think how intricately he weaved Power Chains by linking various sagas.

For a guy his caliber, I simply couldnt stomach how he prefers to be ranked inferiorly (forget, who da heck is Tao Pai Pai, etc) while just a glance thru his own freaking drawings would show his superior talent.

My 2 cents

[VegettoEX]

The following things make it difficult to take this kind of post seriously:

• It's near-impossible to process. It's an incoherent stream-of-consciousness dumped all on single lines.
• The fact that you write "Cell Games" followed immediately by "Kanzentai Seru".
• On a personal level, that you're hung up on strength comparisons; that's not something I'm interested in, and on an artistic/authorial level I take no issue with contradictions there. I cannot have this conversation with you because I disagree with your very premise.

[successoroffate]

I really don't care if he forgets things about the franchise. Specially something that minor. Remember, at the end of the day, it's been a 30 year long ride so it's understandable. Also, the way I see it, the fans are the ones who by nature should remember this kind of information about the franchise, because at the end of the day, that it's what makes us a fan. Toriyama doesn't sit himself in forums and start wandering around to talk about tiny hidden bits of information about the franchise he created. I am pretty sure he has a life outside DB.

[xmysticgohanx]

Findin it terribly insultin when fans (worse, kids born 5 years ago) remembers more detail abt DragonBall than its original author does.

What do you do for a living, and do you remember every single minute detail spanning back 30 years about what you've done, how you've done it, and how it integrates into every single other thing you've done with your life?

Yes, it sure would be nice if every author remembered every detail about everything they've ever done. Maybe let's also take a step back to think about how insane that is in practice, though...?

I don't know how bad a 60 year old's memory is but don't you agree that looking at it at an unbiased perspective, Toriyama should have reread his manga a couple of times since the BoG revival of the series?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Also, no. Dr Slump did make Akira Toriyama. Its not just a smash hit, it was an colossal phenomenon in Japan. It scored itself a place in the highest rated TV Shows EVER in japan. 36 MILLION people watched it at one point. Dragon Ball is just what those silly foreigners latched onto.

AND he did reread DB for Battle Of Gods.

[rereboy]

Findin it terribly insultin when fans (worse, kids born 5 years ago) remembers more detail abt DragonBall than its original author does.

What do you do for a living, and do you remember every single minute detail spanning back 30 years about what you've done, how you've done it, and how it integrates into every single other thing you've done with your life?

Yes, it sure would be nice if every author remembered every detail about everything they've ever done. Maybe let's also take a step back to think about how insane that is in practice, though...?

The things that Toriyama forgets aren't minute details, though.

Toriyama not remembering Taopaipai is king of like J. K. Rowling not knowing who Quirrel is.

I've never seen any author besides Toriyama be quite as forgetful.

[Draconic]

Findin it terribly insultin when fans (worse, kids born 5 years ago) remembers more detail abt DragonBall than its original author does.

What do you do for a living, and do you remember every single minute detail spanning back 30 years about what you've done, how you've done it, and how it integrates into every single other thing you've done with your life?

Yes, it sure would be nice if every author remembered every detail about everything they've ever done. Maybe let's also take a step back to think about how insane that is in practice, though...?

The things that Toriyama forgets aren't minute details, though.

Toriyama not remembering Taopaipai is king of like J. K. Rowling not knowing who Quirrel is.

I've never seen any author besides Toriyama be quite as forgetful.

The difference is Rowling planned her stories in advance, while Toriyama made stuff up as he went along. Not to mention Tao Pai Pai comes so early in the story and gets his "arc" ended by less than the half point of the story (which he was never a huge part anyway. In the RRA army he appeared almost as little as Murasaki and in the 23rd, he might as well have been Chappao levels of obscure) that it is possible to forget about him. Remember, Toriyama never reread the manga or rewatched the anime times and times again, like fans do so I find it very reasonable to think he forgot about him. And that's just an example out of many pretty minor details he kept on forgetting along the years. I am sure he knows the main beats of each arc, but stuff like that can get pretty blurry. Not to mention the fact that, as we know, he used to sleep very little when being active and writing while fatigued is very hard and remembering stuff from those points is even harder (especially after a lot of years). It's like being on auto-pilot.

But, it all pretty much comes to his own choice of writing as he goes along with no "goal" in mind. If he planned out stuff, kept notes around (which he probably did do, but not much) he might have had a better grasp on the story in it's entirety, but as it stands, like I said, he knows the essentials and I think that is enough.

[rereboy]

Don't get caught up too much in my example. It was just an example. Like I said, I've never seen any author besides Toriyama be quite as forgetful.

[dbgtFO]

Toriyama is just forgetful about the things he forgets.
From that interview with Oda, he just deems Tao Pai Pai as one of the less important characters to which Oda objects and Toriyama reiterates "the guy with the braid?"
So he hadn't truly forgot who exactly Tao was, Oda just reminded him afterwards that Tao was the assassin who is transported by the pillars he throws.

Also that interview is pretty funny, as it is Toriyama being showered with constant praise by DB fanboy Eiichiro Oda.

[DuckBoy]

Carl Barks, the mastermind behind Uncle Scrooge and Donald Duck comics, he had many inconsistencies between stories. Certainly, you might not think of Duck comics as being a serious story that requires serious attention by the author, but DragonBall also was a children's comic that was mass produced and made for a huge audience. Probably Toriyama didn't care about these stories he made until after the fact. Nothing wrong with that.. It was a job, just like it was for Carl Barks. He just kept writing the story until it was done.

It's funny, Carl Barks didn't apperciate what he had created until he saw the fandom and love for his work Maybe Toriyama felt the same way you know?

Likewise, afterwards, you have had many fans try to decide what is canon, and what isn't, (Should Don Rosa's comics be canon to the Barks stories? Should the stories by other authors matter?) and there are a billion different ways to see things


On another note, has Matt Groening seen and remembered every Simpsons episode, much less made sure there was continuity between them? ;P

[DoomieDoomie911]

AND he did reread DB for Battle Of Gods.

Was this said in an interview or something?

[Lord Beerus]

AND he did reread DB for Battle Of Gods.

Was this said in an interview or something?

Yes, it was from an interview promoting Battle Of Gods.

Whis says this too, but I thought, “‘Super Saiyan God’… if you ask me, that’s an exaggeration.” (laughs) Anyway, I re-read the work for the first time in ages, and you know how Super Saiyan just keeps getting flashier? When it gets to “3”, the hair even gets longer. So, I decided to pare it down as much as possible.