When did the Super Saiyan stop becoming sacred for you?

[MozillaVulpix]

The Super Saiyan was something that was introduced as almost sacred. A legend feared by Freeza, admired by Vegeta, that gets built up and for the first time actually drastically changes Goku's appearance. It's iconic for a reason.

But, of course, almost befitting the tradition of Dragon Ball, something that is initially sacred will be abused by the main characters as much as possible to get stronger. And then, suddenly, it doesn't feel sacred anymore. More like a plot device. It happened with Karin, it happened with Kami, and it happened to the Super Saiyan here.

When was the moment for you when you realised "Man, the Super Saiyan sure doesn't feel like a legend anymore?"

When Future Trunks got it? Suddenly, Goku wasn't the only one, making it unlikely the Super Saiyan was actually a legendary warrior that appeared once in a millennia.

When Vegeta got it? He says he gets it from a heart of pure evil, which undermines the idea that the only reason Goku transformed was because he was the only Saiyan who had a bit of empathy.

When Gohan got it? In the manga, he almost literally gets it off-screen. At that point, it was just expected of him, with no real explanation behind it. And then it turns out it's not even the strongest he can get.

When Goten and Trunks got it? The actual Super Saiyan Bargain Sale. And neither of them seemed to understand just how amazing and rare the transformation was. It became a 'child's plaything', to quote dub Vegeta. Not to mention Super Saiyan 2 and 3, which were firmly cemented as concepts in that arc.

Or what about after the story ended, when the franchise started giving Super Saiyan forms to everyone, and it ended up being seemingly a part of every Saiyan's natural repertoire. Heroes, Online, Xenoverse, Episode of Bardock...especially when it's given to avatar characters, it starts to feel more like wish fulfillment in bad fanfiction. Everyone can be a Super Saiyan! And they can even look like you!

Or maybe you still feel the Super Saiyan has a certain significance. Maybe it still feels sacred to you.

What do you think?

[Bansho64]

For me it would have to be when Goten and Trunks got it. When those two got it there was no work or effort put in attain what should be hard to attain. It was given to them only to be a plot device. In the Cell arc I can admit it got a little out of hand with all the different forms but atleast we can see the characters worked for them. Almost each and every one of them had to train for a year to achieve it. When Trunks got it you understood that it came from being in a time of pain and suffering. When Vegeta got you understood that it was from anger at himself for not being able to surpass Goku. When Gohan got it you understood it was from a pile up of anger from not being able to protect his friends and family. When Goten and Trunks got it....it didn't feel like anything. That's my opinon. (P.S Sorry for the rambling )

[Wezenheim]

Honestly, it was when Vegeta got it for me. When Trunks turned Super Saiyan and decimated Freeza, I thought it was one of the coolest things ever, since Super Saiyan was still "special" and Trunks wiped out Freeza and King Cold instantly. Someone the cast spent an entire arc trying to beat was killed like that, along with his father who is even stronger than he is. When Vegeta transformed though, that's when I began getting underwhelmed. Three is a crowd, and I was never a fan of how Vegeta actually achieved the form. Its miles better than Goten and Trunks, but at that point I began to accept Super Saiyan as this normal thing that Saiyan characters got to have. Super Saiyan was still kind of "cool" at that point, but thats when it more or less stopped being "really cool" for me.

[Jaetinh]

Definitely when Goten and Kid Trunks got it. Watching Trunks, Goku, Gohan and Vegeta obtain it through rage/tough training, I disliked how those two brats got it so easily.

[VegettoEX]

It was well before I ever got to that point in the series, because so many types of media and merchandise had spoiled the fact that tons of characters eventually got it. One need only look at the back of any issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly in the mid-90s to have the "secret" or "surprise" ruined.

It didn't help that FUNimation's "Rock the Dragon" opening used a later animation where Goku drops down and explodes into Super Saiyan, so even if you were blindly following JUST the dub in syndication, you saw it coming a mile away.

That being said, it was still a magical moment when I first downloaded that original MPEG-1 clip (probably from SonGohan's site). Having it in context with that animation and that music totally washed away all preconceptions.

So, for me, it was simultaneously NEVER "sacred", while at the same time, its production was so solid that it overcame all of that cynicism and made - at least that first transformation - a truly special moment.

Probably more to say about it, but those are the things that come to mind right away. Great question.

[ShadowBardock89]

Definitely when Goten and Kid Trunks got it. Watching Trunks, Goku, Gohan and Vegeta obtain it through rage/tough training, I disliked how those two brats got it so easily.

I agree with you on this. Vegeta's reaction to it encapsulates the entire situation: "When has the legendary Super Saiyan been reduced to a child's play?" and "Naturally, its a Super Saiyan bargain sale."

[MozillaVulpix]

It didn't help that FUNimation's "Rock the Dragon" opening used a later animation where Goku drops down and explodes into Super Saiyan, so even if you were blindly following JUST the dub in syndication, you saw it coming a mile away.

You know, I wonder if that in itself actually added to the significance of the moment. You knew what the Super Saiyan was, you knew it was coming, but you didn't necessarily know when or where or how.

As an example: For anyone who's watched/read HunterXHunter, I had been watching the 2011 version mostly blind a few months ago, and...let's just say I had seen pictures of a certain version of Gon many months beforehand. I didn't know what it was, but I knew it would be a part of the series eventually. So there were episodes where I was just thinking, "is the moment going to happen yet? Is it going to happen yet?" And when it DID happen, it felt incredibly significant. Like, something the entire arc had been building up to (even if that wasn't the author's original intention).

It did remind me of what it'd be like for people watching dubbed DBZ. Knowing Goku was going to go Super Saiyan eventually, knowing what it looked like, but not necessarily knowing when or the context behind it. While, for that audience, the transformation wouldn't have the shock factor of, say, the people reading it Jump for the first time. It had something else. Expectations.

[VegettoEX]

For sure. And that brings up the question of: is it the journey, and not necessarily the destination?

Like you're talking about, I think it would have been different for me if the "Rock the Dragon" opening was THE ONLY THING that I had seen. But it wasn't. The instant I saw the show I jumped headfirst into research mode to an insane degree, to the point that I started running a website not even four months later. The online research, the magazines, the merchandise... since I already knew precisely how I was going to get there, there almost WAS NO journey. There was ONLY the destination left.

I think it says something that despite the journey and the destination both being "ruined" for me, it overcame all of that and was still something super special.

[TheZFighter]

It isn't tough to pinpoint the exact moment, is it? It shouldn't be anyway.

Goku becoming a Super Saiyan was an epic and memorable part of the series, so that wasn't a problem. Future Trunks was only the second Super Saiyan, and he is a fondly remembered character, so that wasn't a problem either. Vegeta becoming the third Super Saiyan was an epic moment for that character, so again, that wasn't a problem.

Now, aside from when he became "Ultimate Gohan" during the Buu Saga, I've never been a big fan of the Gohan character. However, he was always something of a child prodigy, and I thought the way he became a Super Saiyan, then a Super Saiyan 2, and defeated Cell, was good, so that wasn't a problem for me.

Goten and Trunks was the straw that broke the camel's back. I dislike the two characters immensely. As ShadowBardock89 before me said, Vegeta says it best "the legendary Super Saiyan reduced to child's play." I'm not sure its necessarily fair for me to blame it all on those two though. Unfortunately further Super Saiyan forms is what really puts me off this series now. It is stupid. Super Saiyan, fantastic. Super Saiyan 2, alright. Super Saiyan 3, starting to push it a bit but okay. I'd have probably been content enough if they'd left it there, but they did Super Saiyan 4, which I hated, and now they've introduced Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Seriously? Ridiculous. Try saying Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan out loud. Its just lazy writing.

[thaman91]

It didn't help that FUNimation's "Rock the Dragon" opening used a later animation where Goku drops down and explodes into Super Saiyan, so even if you were blindly following JUST the dub in syndication, you saw it coming a mile away.

I was one of these people, but I still had no idea what a Super Saiyan would look like. The show never really showed us and so the "Rock the Dragon" opening where we see a bunch of Super Saiyans wouldn't have any meaning without context. Additionally, didn't the Toonami airing of that original dub only show the "Rock the Dragon" opening once in a while? Because I remember Toonami creating their own intros in lieu of the official one and it was only during movies that we would see the "Rock the Dragon" intro.

[Iberian_Saiyan]

Great question. I dare to say but for me it'd be the whole Super Saiyan God-thing. I don't really like the designs or the colours used because it just feels uninspired at this point without much creativity put to it. Yes, people can also say that Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 have barely any difference and that Super Saiyan 3 is just with a long amount of spiky hair but at the time it looked awesome and it was new. I also loved Gokou's Super Saiyan 4 form it looked pretty badass.

Now it just feels like they're rehashing on ways to try and gather back fans for the whole "Hm, how can we please fans with new Super Saiyan transformations?".

[Doctor.]

When Gohan got it. At that point, we already had evolutions of Super Saiyan. Not to mention that Gohan got it off-screen and didn't even get a big, dramatic sequence to show it off for the first time like Trunks or Vegeta.

[Vijay]

When Goku became Goddo/Goat by holding hands like in traditional Hindu puberty ceremony in circles. Dats the point the mystical. The ancient. The surreal states of ascensions. The iconic & legendary Super Saiyan form stopped becoming a "thing"

At least with Goten & Trunks, I felt it was a natural progression. Gohan became Super Saiyan at young age to battle Cell. With next Arc, its only natural for Next Gen protagonists to attain such fabled stature in order to combat a MUCH superior & omnipotent demonic creature, Boo

[dbzfan7]

When Gohan got it in the manga. It was off screen and really underwhelming. If we go by anime, then it's obviously Goten and Trunks. But the thing is at that point, does it really matter? We had SSJ2 by then, and soon SSJ3. SSJ was no longer that big a deal anymore, so it didn't really matter to me they could get it easy. Cabba also gets it pretty damn easy too.

[Vijay]

When Gohan got it in the manga. It was off screen and really underwhelming. If we go by anime, then it's obviously Goten and Trunks. But the thing is at that point, does it really matter? We had SSJ2 by then, and soon SSJ3. SSJ was no longer that big a deal anymore, so it didn't really matter to me they could get it easy. Cabba also gets it pretty damn easy too.

I dont see what you mean by off-screen. Toriyama clearly showed Gohan's attempt at becoming SSJ & Cell's power-up in parallel (possibly foreshadowing their fight).

Gohan became SSJ in ROSAT the same time Cell acheived his Perfect form & its there in manga. I dont get the off-screen part here

[Hellspawn28]

For me when Goten and Trunks got it. Becoming a SSj now is as easy as riding a bike. So far Radditz, Nappa, King Vegeta, Tullece, Paragus, Tarble and Bardock's crew mates have not gone SSj. I personally like having less SSj since make those characters feel more special.

[dbzfan7]

When Gohan got it in the manga. It was off screen and really underwhelming. If we go by anime, then it's obviously Goten and Trunks. But the thing is at that point, does it really matter? We had SSJ2 by then, and soon SSJ3. SSJ was no longer that big a deal anymore, so it didn't really matter to me they could get it easy. Cabba also gets it pretty damn easy too.

I dont see what you mean by off-screen. Toriyama clearly showed Gohan's attempt at becoming SSJ & Cell's power-up in parallel (possibly foreshadowing their fight).

Gohan became SSJ in ROSAT the same time Cell acheived his Perfect form & its there in manga. I dont get the off-screen part here

It literally just happened in the manga. Cut to the page and BANG, he's a Super Saiyan. The anime dramatized it very nicely, while the manga just had it come with a flip of a switch.

[Lord Beerus]

Super Saiyan stopped becoming sacred to me the moment the transformations were being achieved off-screen. So I guess you could they stopped being sacred the minute Future Trunks became a Super Saiyan.

[Vijay]

For me when Goten and Trunks got it. Becoming a SSj now is as easy as riding a bike. So far Radditz, Nappa, King Vegeta, Tullece, Paragus, Tarble and Bardock's crew mates have not gone SSj. I personally like having less SSj since make those characters feel more special.

To be frank, I now dearly value thosr characters you mentioned like King Vegeta, Nappa, Paragus, Bardock's crew etc

Even by Toriyama's standard of "keeping it simplistic", those characters had actual "characters" to them.

Unlike some characters that gets tagged Goddo/SSJGSSJ wanked to tge point the once iconic SSJ form degrades into garbage bin along with their precious characters. Looking at Goku, Gohan, Veggie trio

[Nejishiki]

I don't think it ever did. When it was the focus of the Freeza arc, it had appropriate buildup and a satisfying result, as that's what the story tried to do. When Trunks appeared and killed Freeza, it felt apparent to me that the new arc wasn't trying to expand on Super Saiyan being special anymore. It was time to move on to grander things.