Dragonball? Perverted?

[MisterFlashdude]

So, I had a friend over a little while ago and I wanted to share with her the beauty that is Dragonball. So I dig out one of my favorite movies, The Path to Power!

20 minutes into it, she made me turn it off, saying "This is the most disturbing, perverted cartoon I've ever seen! What's with all the little boy penis and the whore's panties that keep flapping in the breeze?!".

I was both deeply offended and highly amused. But in hindsight, I think to myself... is Goku's penis really that necessary? Did Akira Toriyama just say "I can't think of a better way of introducing Goku than him fishing naked, penis and all!"?

Opinions, anyone?

[Slickmasterfunk]

So, I had a friend over a little while ago and I wanted to share with her the beauty that is Dragonball. So I dig out one of my favorite movies, The Path to Power!

20 minutes into it, she made me turn it off, saying "This is the most disturbing, perverted cartoon I've ever seen! What's with all the little boy penis and the whore's panties that keep flapping in the breeze?!".

I was both deeply offended and highly amused. But in hindsight, I think to myself... is Goku's penis really that necessary? Did Akira Toriyama just say "I can't think of a better way of introducing Goku than him fishing naked, penis and all!"?

Opinions, anyone?

I think Goku parading around naked was just to show Goku's pure and innocent personality. As far as Bulma's panties goes...yeah, I think it's because she's a whore.

[Sebastian (SB)]

Well, the way I see it, It's just Japan's customs perhaps? I mean, seeing a little boys penis may be not be that all disturbing over there (or in other countries for that matter). It could've been just been for the sake of comic relief? After all the original DragonBall was a gag manga, there was a lot perverted jokes early on in the series so it made sense that they those particular scenes were inculded in "The Path to Ultimate Strength" feature in order celebrate the 10th Anniversary of DragonBall & retain that spirit. In the end, I think your friend was overreacting & if it does really concern you, perhaps you should explain that to her.

[Domon]

Really, it just boils down to different ideas on sex jokes. They're just a little less tight-lipped about presenting that sort of thing in Japan.

On the flip side, the question must be brought up; how do you defind "perverted", and who gets to decide what is or isn't "perverted"? Is "perverted" anything that involves sex or sex jokes? If so, 98% percent of all people must be perverts, since at least that much looks at porn and/or find sex jokes funny(and little kids do think butt 'n boobs jokes are funny). Of course, if 98% of people have sex on the brain, how can it be "perverted" since it's apparently a "normal" thing for people to do? But then, human are sexual beings to begin with (as well as most plants and other animal lives), so perhaps the problem is not that it's perverted, but rather the idea that it's perverted.


Er... just a little food for thought...

[Conan the SSJ]

So, I had a friend over a little while ago and I wanted to share with her the beauty that is Dragonball. So I dig out one of my favorite movies, The Path to Power!

20 minutes into it, she made me turn it off, saying "This is the most disturbing, perverted cartoon I've ever seen! What's with all the little boy penis and the whore's panties that keep flapping in the breeze?!".

I was both deeply offended and highly amused. But in hindsight, I think to myself... is Goku's penis really that necessary? Did Akira Toriyama just say "I can't think of a better way of introducing Goku than him fishing naked, penis and all!"?

Opinions, anyone?

Well, for one, I'm not sure starting out a brand new(bie) fan on Path to Power was the wisest choice. It's a feature more for nostalgic fans IMO, where you're seeing a fresh reinvention of the original story with new animation style. Kinda like Superman Birthright is to John Bryne's comic revamp. Plus, showing it to a girl considering all the "perverted" antics, I'm not surprised she wanted to stop watching considering she has no previous viewing experience of the series.

Maybe you should've started her out with the Bardock special, while that's more a sci-fi/action intro than PtP's fun action/adventure theme, it's the literal start of everything and a great way to start watching the series. Maybe then go on to the actual Pilaf/Saga-of-Goku arc after that if you have her interested. Or hell, treat original DB like a prequel series and go straight to the Ocean version of the Saiyan saga. That's what I'd do.

Really, Path to Power's more a film a fan should be able to watch for fun once finished with the entire series. The pacing, rush-ness of the plot, and some of the unexplained elements just aren't for fresh new viewers. The Bardock special would be my best suggestion to start a fan out on. It has near perfect pacing, a perfect plot for new, old, and nostalgic viewers. Also, it's the perfect start to Goku's legacy. What I find awesome of the feature, I don't think Goku's ever called his Earth name till the ending. You learn all you need to about "Kakarrot", then if you wanna learn about "Goku", you watch the original DB series.

My perfect surmise for original DB if you wanna introduce it as a prequel series: 'Before he could fly, before he ventured into Space, before he knew of his alien origins: ... he was just a mountain boy training to be the best. Join Goku and the original DragonBall gang in the early adventures that raised Goku into the man DBZ defined. Will Goku defeat the imposing threats of the Red Ribbon Army and King Piccolo? Experience the drama, breath in the excitement, and live the adventure as a monkey-tailed boy grows and evolves into a man planet Earth so desperately needs. Bear witness to the beginning of a legend, and the birth of a destiny!" -- "The FUNimation DragonBall series Box is coming soon to a store near you!"

Yeah, that last part is made up.

[theoriginalbilis]

My perfect surmise for original DB if you wanna introduce it as a prequel series: 'Before he could fly, before he ventured into Space, before he knew of his alien origins: ... he was just a mountain boy training to be the best. Join Goku and the original DragonBall gang in the early adventures that raised Goku into the man DBZ defined. Will Goku defeat the imposing threats of the Red Ribbon Army and King Piccolo? Experience the drama, breath in the excitement, and live the adventure as a monkey-tailed boy grows and evolves into a man planet Earth so desperately needs. Bear witness to the beginning of a legend, and the birth of a destiny!" -- "The FUNimation DragonBall series Box is coming soon to a store near you!"

Yeah, that last part is made up.

Oh, it'll happen eventually... just maybe not in our lifetimes.

As for my thoughts on starting someone out on DB stuff (especially a girl)... Try what Conan said. The Bardock special is one of the highlights of the whole DB-DBZ story. It sets everything up perfectly...

Of course, one of my friends (who is a also a girl) HATED DBZ, but we watched the Tournament Saga of Dragon Ball in our anime club, and she actually enjoyed it.

So, I dunno... but Path to Power wasn't the best choice, especially considering the "risqueness" involved. Use your own discretion.

[DBW]

I was both deeply offended and highly amused. But in hindsight, I think to myself... is Goku's penis really that necessary? Did Akira Toriyama just say "I can't think of a better way of introducing Goku than him fishing naked, penis and all!"?

Opinions, anyone?

I think the better question is, what's so offensive about two U-shaped lines representing a boy's penis and scrotum? Oh yeah, I almost forgot, we live in a society of backwards morals...

Now don't get me wrong, Japan's got some fucked up morals too, but at least they don't freak out when they see cartoon nudity. And if you think about it logically, there's really nothing to be said about any of it. A young boy who lives alone in the mountains is naked when he swims...should he have a Speedo instead? There's a gag where he takes off Bulma's panties and sees "no balls"...it's a funny joke, so what?

Also remember that DragonBall is intended for a range of audiences (no, it's not rated R, but it's also not Sesame Street). The original broadcast of the series was paired-up with Maison Ikkoku, which was littered with adult nudity, and full to the brim with adult themes (including sex, death, alcoholism, etc.). DragonBall comes from a time and place where cartoons were for everybody to enjoy, and Toriyama decided to put some naughty jokes and nudity in there, and he had every right to do so. Your friend and her opinions are simply coming from a different time and place then where DragonBall came from.

As for where to start someone new to the series? Call me old-fashioned, but I'd say your best bet is episode 1.

[MisterFlashdude]

Wow, look at all the attention I've attracted!

I'd just like to reiterate that I don't think it was wrong to show it, just if it was really necessary. It's not like I saw it and gasped in horror. And specify that when I said 'deeply offended' I meant by the fact that she said one of my favorite movies was disturbing and perverted!

Second, it was never really my intention to turn her into a fan of the series. It was one of those "Hey, there's not much to do, is there? But hey! I've got a pretty funny movie about my favorite anime!"

Next up, even if I did want to make her into a fan, I actually don't have the DVD's with the first episode of Dragonball or DBZ. I pretty much have those episodes burned into my mind, so they're pretty low on the 'DVD's I need to get' list.

Anyways, glad to see people care about my Dragonball issues! haha.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

I still have no idea what is so offensive about nudity, I mean, at one point, everyone is nude. No one's born with clothes or anything, and no one takes showers in clothes, so why is it such a taboo to see nudity, either drawn or actual?

Goku's nudity throught Dragon Ball is just to emphazise that he's a backwards little boy from the mountains, and therefore wouldn't know what is acceptable and what's not in a 'civilized' society.

Bulma's panty shots and such, one the other hand, just shows what she's willing do to get a Dragon Ball: Anything.

[Jerseymilk]

I agree with DBW. With all due respect, I think that your friend overreacted. Has she never watched The Simpsons? Or Looney Tunes? They can be classified as perverted just as much, probably moreso with at least The Simpsons. So they show a naked little kid, what's the big deal? The fact that he got naked to fish in the water was totally natural. He wasn't walking around city streets flashing people. I think that those "puritan values" and way of thinking are just so ingrained in her that she couldn't view it more objectively.

Now yes, there are definitely perverted moments in DB, moreso than DBZ even, but remember that DB was more of a gag manga. Perverted elements in comedy just happens to be a characteristic of Toriyama's work. As others have said, it's the difference in culture too. Bawdy type humour is more acceptable in Japan. Here it's regarded as immature and indecent. So ya, it would depend who you asked the question to. A Japanese person or an American person. I'm pretty sure you'd get the opposite answer from each of them to your question.

[Tsukento]

I pretty much agree with everything that's been said here, although I think you picked the wrong movie to show considering this movie's chock full of Bulma fanservice. Pretty much every scene in the begining of the movie has something to do with Bulma's panties being visible or her showing off some skin (even when it isn't intentional).

[MajinVegeta25]

Personally, I like the risque humor and fanservice

Your friend overreacted. You should probably have played a DB movie or episode that emphasized more on action.

[Mr. Announcer]

Yeah, I also have to disagree with the choice of movie there, especially when watching with a girl. The perveted elements were a little overemphasized. Most of us have no problem at this point watching young Gokuh run around naked as is often the case in DB but for someone new to the series it might be a little disturbing. While it can't be denied that Mr. Toriyama is somewhat of a pervert I think it's safe to say that wasn't his central focus here. Gokuh's nudity isn't really meant to attract attention in any kind of offensively sexual sense considering his age (and not even when he's an adult) and the fact that the comic was targeted at little boys who wouldn't be bothered by something they see everyday. Basically small boy nudity in japan falls into the category of potty humor and is just somewhat crude, but not perverted.

[MisterFlashdude]

Seems I must explain myself further. ^_^; I didn't think everyone would take it so very seriously.

The 'girl' in question has been my friend for 12 years and is usually into movies like that-- All those comic movie-adaptions and horror flicks; just not of the Japanese anime variety. I suppose when you're watching a cartoon primarily meant for a young audience, you have certain expectations.

And maybe I did make a poor decision in which movie to show-- It wasn't something that I spent time contemplating and considering whether or not the material would be found offensive, or if it was the proper place to introduce a person to Dragonball. In the future, I'll be more mindful.

[DBW]

The 'girl' in question has been my friend for 12 years and is usually into movies like that-- All those comic movie-adaptions and horror flicks; just not of the Japanese anime variety.

Just so you know, I don't think anybody here is intending to slam your friend, but just the attitude in general. I know I was just commenting on the usual "nudity is bad" rhetoric, and I completely respect your friend and her opinion (she can hate it all she wants, she has every right to). So don't think we're trying to chew her up and spit her out, I'm sure everybody is just commenting in general terms.

[Xyex]

I don't think the choice of movies is the issue. Anyone that sees naked kid Goku running around on screen as perverted is where the issue is. No offense to your friend, but him doing that is as perverted as him pulling off Bulma's panties, cooking a fish, or sleeping. It's just Goku. :/

Roshi, on the other hand... well, he's the Pervert Hermit! So, ya, her definition of 'perverted' is as broad as you can get without everything being perverted. Just make her watch the whole movie!

[Akira]

Girls typically who get into Dragonball get into it more for the character interactions than the fighting. Therefore, DB is definately the place to start from the beginning. If they see the progresion of Goku and Krillin's friendship, thier growth into great warriors, then gradually get into the heavy fighting they'll kep watching through Z to see how the characters end up. Boys get into it for the fighting, the character interactions are secondary to them. (Yes I am sterotyping the genders and there are exceptions to every rule. Just trying to make a general guideline.)

I would love to have seen everything in order when I got into Dragonball rather than see it all out of order the first time. Piccolo seems much more menacing and you see him as a villian still when you watch the beginning of DBZ after DB. The movies are optional, but for the anime continuity to make sense, I would recommend the folowing viewing order: (Yes the Bardock special reveals Goku's origins, but it is like being privy to information that the characters do not discover until much later and you are in anticipation to see how it will eventually play out.

-Bardock Special
-Dragonball series
-DBZ Movie 1 Dead Zone
-Saiyan Saga
-Freeza Saga
-Garlic Junior Saga
-Trunks Saga
-Trunks Special
-DBZ Movie 5 Cooler's Revenge (Optional)
-Android Saga
-Imperfect Cell Saga
-Perfect Cell Saga
-Cell Games Saga
-DBZ Movie 9 Bojack Unbound (Optional)
-Great Saiyaman Saga
-25th World Tournament Saga
-Babidi Saga
-Majin Buu saga
-Fusion Saga
-DBZ Movie 12 Fusion Reborn (Optional)
-Kid Buu Saga (first 4 DVDs)
-DBZ Movie 13 (Optional)
-Kid Buu Saga (Last DVD 28th World Tournament)
-DBGT
-DBGT Special
-DB Special Path to Power


Then the other movies can be shown optionally along with the sagas they correlate with or afterwards. I recomend the above though for best understanding ofall the characters. Movie 1 sets up Garlic Junior for the later saga with the same name. Movie 5 shows who would come looking for Freeza and Kold's killer, and they show up in Movie 12 and in GT so it is important. Movie 9 fits with the story and shows one of the only Teen Gohan stories aside from the Cell Games Saga. Movie 13 fits between the last two DVDs of DBZ and shows an adventure with all the characters of that era after the defeat of Buu.

Movie 12 is there to show the intro of Gogeta, who appears again in GT. Even though it has plot holes, it is somewhat of an important piece to fully grasping GT's later plots. Anyway, that's the order I would show things for greatest comprehension of all story elements and character development points. The rest of the movies and when you show them is really up to your own timetable and ideas on where they ought to fit. Have fun with showing it to new fans!

[Conan the SSJ]

Then the other movies can be shown optionally along with the sagas they correlate with or afterwards. I recomend the above though for best understanding ofall the characters. Movie 1 sets up Garlic Junior for the later saga with the same name. Movie 5 shows who would come looking for Freeza and Kold's killer, and they show up in Movie 12 and in GT so it is important. Movie 9 fits with the story and shows one of the only Teen Gohan stories aside from the Cell Games Saga. Movie 13 fits between the last two DVDs of DBZ and shows an adventure with all the characters of that era after the defeat of Buu.

Movie 12 is there to show the intro of Gogeta, who appears again in GT. Even though it has plot holes, it is somewhat of an important piece to fully grasping GT's later plots. Anyway, that's the order I would show things for greatest comprehension of all story elements and character development points. The rest of the movies and when you show them is really up to your own timetable and ideas on where they ought to fit. Have fun with showing it to new fans!

I basically agree with your point of view about those specific movies, the specials, and GT being in anime continuity; except for the part about adding movie 12 as continuity. MAYBE if it was edited down to just include Other World scenes, it could fit right between the moments Goku found out Gohan was alive from Enma and then went flying through the clouds in glee. However, that'd be up to a fan project I guess. From my point of view, I just go under the assumption that Vegeta was watching Goku's final moments before departing, thereby explaining how he knows the Fusion dance in Buu's innards and the Shadow Dragon arc, as well as Goku's SSJ3 transformation (though everyone in the cosmos could sense that). Regarding the other movies, I'd place movie 1 right between the last original DB and first DBZ episodes, movie 5 right between the driving episode and its last 30 seconds, movie 9 right between the episode where Goku and Kaio take their Snake-Road road trip and the episode where Goku meets Pikkon, and movie 13 between the "Goku's Always Late" and "Granddaughter Pan" episodes.

But yeah, I've already pointed out how I'd introduce someone new to the series. =)

[Dayspring]

I'm actually a little worried about Toriyama. The "No balls!" sketch was a recurring joke in his earlier manga.

It's funny that little boys like to rest their heads on elderly men's testicles! We get it already! XD

[Xyex]

Well, since others have listed the order they'd show it in I may as well do the same. Unlike Conan and Akira, I wouldn't start with Bardock. Sure, that's the start of events cronlogically, but it also gives away Goku's origins, which ruins the fun a bit when you reach the Saiya-jin Saga. So, I'd go like this:

- All of Dragonball
- DBZ Movie 1 (just so they know who the hell Garlic Jr. is in his Saga)
- Saiya-jin Saga
- Part of the Namek Saga (up to when Dodoria reveals that Freeza blew up Planet Vegeta)
- Bardock Special
- Rest of the Namek, Freeza, Garlic Jr., and Trunks Sagas
- Trunks Special
- Android/Cell Sagas
- DBZ Movie 9 (cause there's no real plot holes and it's fun)
- Rest of DBZ up until right before the 10 year time skip
- DBZ Movie 13
- Last few eps of DBZ
- GT special (the only part of GT I have no issues with what-so-ever)

Yes, I skipped over GT. They can go back and watch it after everything else if they want.

Now, this is just how I'd have someone who'd not seen it at all before watch it. Personally, and with anyone else that's watched it before, I'd go with a more 'chronolgical' approach. The only changes would be puting the Bardock Special at the beginning and the Trunks Special before the Trunks Saga.